Countess Alexandra and Martin Jørgensen to Separate: September 8, 2015

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by kalnel

Is that a tradition in Denmark? American kids -- at least the ones I know -- continue to go on vacation throughout the time they're in college and beyond.

Sometimes the kids also take trips with their friends, but they generally go with the family, too.

Well, if the child attends continuation school after 9th grade. That's a year away from home and after that they are unlikely to move back home. And if they are it's only for a short while. That means they move away around the age of 16-17.
Those who go from school directly to high school or something similar tend to stay at home until graduation three years later. That's when they are around 18-19. Then some opt for conscription (like I did) or take a year off traveling abroad. In both cases they are unlikely to move back home.
So I'd say that by the age of 20 the majority have moved away from home or is planning to move.

As for vacations alone. That varies. Some parents allow their children to go on vacation abroad at 16 or so. That's not going to happen in the Muhler family though!
Our oldest has turned eighteen and can't wait to move away from home, and he may wish to go on holiday on his own now. That's fine but it's been made very clear that if he goes abroad and drink up all his money, he can walk home.
Fortunately he likes being around his family and he naturally is very welcome to come with us.
But at eighteen he now has to pay a symbolic amount for living at home. - He'll be in for a shock when he actually does move away.

[tommy100]

I am surprised Martin and indeed even Alexandra have diplomatic passports, they don't represent Denmark officially so only travel as private citizens so why have them? That being said don't Anne-Marie and her family all use Danish Diplomatic passports?

Anyway.... I am a bit surprised by Alexandra's actions in all of this, she released a statement that was more detailed and suggestive than needed to be and then was happy to subject her youngest child to being photographed on his way to school, she could have arranged for a friend or someone else to take him so the picture of her son wouldn't have been splashed everywhere. Maybe we are going to see a different side of her after this.

[Muhler]

The DRF and the Greek royals have diplomatic passports.

I can understand Alexandra has a diplomatic passport, since she is mother of two Princes. And in that light it's perhaps convenient that her husband has one too.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by kalnel

Sorry to read this, but it doesn't surprise me. Earlier this summer, I remember reading two stories about Martin. In one, he was picked Nicholai up from school in his new Maserati. (Neither Alexandra nor Joachim could make it, apparently.)

I wonder if the Maserati goes to. The car cost around 190.000 Euros, a lot of money for a man who doesn't have a job. Martin is such a poser, Nicolai didnt look comfortable at all.
http://a.bimg.dk/node-images/594/9/6...dafasdfasd.jpg
http://herognu.dk/upload/fixed/643/4...ag/498998s.jpg

[sesa]

WOWZA!!!!!!! Nice car for a man w/o a job!!!

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I wonder if the Maserati goes to. The car cost around 190.000 Euros, a lot of money for a man who doesn't have a job. Martin is such a poser, Nicolai didnt look comfortable at all.
http://a.bimg.dk/node-images/594/9/6...dafasdfasd.jpg
http://herognu.dk/upload/fixed/643/4...ag/498998s.jpg

Yeah, I guess Nikolai knew that the news was about to break.

I know from articles that Nikolai is very fond of going to boarding school. I wonder if it's because it's more peaceful there and away from the problems at home?
That's the damned thing about marriages breaking up. It's difficult for the children to remain neutral. Of course they love their mother and of course they are fond of their bonus dad, or at least I hope so!

Yeah, perhaps the good Martin Jørgensen will have to get used to driving around in a "Christiania-tank" http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Ci...n-Image-04.jpg
But then isn't that what hipsters drive around in?

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by Muhler

... So wonder if she will stripped of hers in a few years?

As Alexandra is patron of UNICEF Denmark and in that respect sometimes travels abroad, I'd say that's highly unlikely. Not to mention the fact that most children don't stop travelling with their parents once they're eighteen.

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I think Joachim is worried about all the garbage his sons are about to read about their mother and second husband, something Alexandra was less worried about when fuelling the fire with her own statement.

Oh, so you think Alexandra's statement is the thing that's fuelling the media attention? Alexandra has been the media's (and seemingly a lot of royal watchers, god knows why ) favourite scapegoat for a very long time now, they were undoubtedly gonna have a field day regardless of what she's said in the press.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

As Alexandra is patron of UNICEF Denmark and in that respect sometimes travels abroad, I'd say that's highly unlikely. Not to mention the fact that most children don't stop travelling with their parents once they're eighteen.



Oh, so you think Alexandra's statement is the thing that's fuelling the media attention? Alexandra has been the media's (and seemingly a lot of royal watchers, god knows why ) favourite scapegoat for a very long time now, they were undoubtedly gonna have a field day regardless of what she's said in the press.

I agree, I think Alexandra has, for the most part, behaved impeccably after the divorce from Joachim, even though she's been put in several no-win situations over the last couple of years. She's never said a word against Joachim or even hinted at anything that would portray him or the royal family in a bad light. She seems to have a legitimately friendly relationship with him and Marie now. She's been a loving and supportive mother to both her sons. She hasn't publicly commented on the apanage situation. She seems to have tried to strike a balance between satisfying people's ongoing interest about her life with the occasional interview while still fading out of the official side of things in deference to Joachim's second wife.

Looking back on her time as a member of the royal family, Alexandra has charisma, intelligence, and work ethic equal to Mary, and I would say quite a bit more than Marie. It would have been very easy for her to not fade into the background at all at the time of the divorce and instead set herself up as a permanent high profile quasi-royal, and if that made things a little uncomfortable for current members of the royal family, well, too bad. The fact that she didn't do that shows a lot of grace, IMO.

[polyesco]

Originally Posted by tommy100

I am surprised Martin and indeed even Alexandra have diplomatic passports, they don't represent Denmark officially so only travel as private citizens so why have them? That being said don't Anne-Marie and her family all use Danish Diplomatic passports?

Anyway.... I am a bit surprised by Alexandra's actions in all of this, she released a statement that was more detailed and suggestive than needed to be and then was happy to subject her youngest child to being photographed on his way to school, she could have arranged for a friend or someone else to take him so the picture of her son wouldn't have been splashed everywhere. Maybe we are going to see a different side of her after this.

Alexandra did a good job after her divorce from Joachim that I hope will continue, but I agree those pictures with Felix could have been avoided. Of course the press was out to get the first picture of her, but i think they would have left Felix alone if he was without Alexandra.

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I wonder if the Maserati goes to. The car cost around 190.000 Euros, a lot of money for a man who doesn't have a job. Martin is such a poser, Nicolai didnt look comfortable at all.
http://a.bimg.dk/node-images/594/9/6...dafasdfasd.jpg
http://herognu.dk/upload/fixed/643/4...ag/498998s.jpg

that is def a very cool car.
and yes Nikolai looked a bit uncomfortable, I remember that Alexandra did not go that day since she was ill and Joachim went to mid summer hunting trip with Henrik and Frederik.

[MidwestMom]

On one of the other royal discussion boards, one of the posters mentioned that Alexandra should have returned her orders and the diamond tiara she received from the Queen when she and Joachim divorced. That beautiful tiara (the Alexandrine diamond drop tiara) was an 18th birthday gift for QM, and she was nice enough to give it to Alexandra. I don't know what the rules are concerning orders, but even though it would have been a good gesture to return it, someday it will be inherited, presumably by Nikolai, who can give it to his wife. The DRF doesn't have a lot of tiaras, so maybe that is Alexandra's way of insuring that Joachim's branch of the family will have at least one.

[ashelen]

We might think it is an age issue, but who knows really? Now , I was surprise to find out that one of my ancestors in the mid 1700s when they married in Denmark, she was 35 and he was 21. I t was a shock to me to think in the 1700s something like this would occur, but it did! and they stayed married together until their death and have several kids! Some times I think it was an arrange marriage! Was she hot at 35? or was her a rich lady? We soon shall find out if he remarried and have kids what was the issue with Martin and Alexandra

[Archduchess Zelia]

Indeed. The mentioning of age bothers me especially because I'm fairly certain that it wouldn't have been cited an issue had it been the other way around with an older man divorcing a younger woman.

Originally Posted by MidwestMom

On one of the other royal discussion boards, one of the posters mentioned that Alexandra should have returned her orders and the diamond tiara she received from the Queen when she and Joachim divorced. That beautiful tiara (the Alexandrine diamond drop tiara) was an 18th birthday gift for QM, and she was nice enough to give it to Alexandra. I don't know what the rules are concerning orders, but even though it would have been a good gesture to return it, someday it will be inherited, presumably by Nikolai, who can give it to his wife. The DRF doesn't have a lot of tiaras, so maybe that is Alexandra's way of insuring that Joachim's branch of the family will have at least one.

I'm almost certain that the Alexandrine Drop Tiara will be lent out and eventually passed along to any future wives of Nikolai and Felix. Just as how Marie's tiara(s, a girl can hope) presumably will be passed on to Athena and a possible future wife of Henrik (although Athena, as Princess of Denmark, might be given one of her own). As for orders, why on earth should she hand in those? She divorced Joachim but she was still a notable member of the royal family at one point and she's the mother of the 7th and 8th in line of succession to the throne. IIRC, the last time someone was deprived of the Order of the Elephant was Ceauşescu in 1989.

And I think we can all rest assured that had QMII wished for Alexandra to hand in the Alexandrine Drop Tiara, it would have happened already.

[Tilia C.]

Orders are usually returned after the death of the recepient, they are not inherited. So her order will be returned someday, it does not matter whether she keeps it for some more decades or not. I didn't know that there were cases of peope being deprived of this order. But I think we can all agree that Alexandra can't be compared with Ceauşescu.

As for the tiara, I am convinced that the Queen always intended that it would be passed on to Joachim and Alexandra's children, thus moving away from the mainline of the DRF. The divorce(s) don't have anything to do with that, imho.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by ashelen

We might think it is an age issue, but who knows really? Now , I was surprise to find out that one of my ancestors in the mid 1700s when they married in Denmark, she was 35 and he was 21. I t was a shock to me to think in the 1700s something like this would occur, but it did! and they stayed married together until their death and have several kids! Some times I think it was an arrange marriage! Was she hot at 35? or was her a rich lady? We soon shall find out if he remarried and have kids what was the issue with Martin and Alexandra

Marriage between "older" women and young men was very common in the countryside in DK a few hundred years ago.

The reason was very practical.
A family owned a farm, if the wife died, the husband simply took a new wife. Often a younger woman but far from always, experience matters. They would probably have a couple of children and things moved on until the husband eventually died and the oldest son took over. He would then marry himself and take care of the widow, whether that was his mother or stepmother. And also younger siblings.
A man who had a farm should have a wife, that was proper, that was practical and that was the right thing to do. Because the wife was responsible for running the household and the economy. She was the one who had the keys to the house (and wore them as a symbol of her status) and she was the one who had the key to the chest with the money. The reasoning being that men had more opportunities to slip away and drink and gamble the fortune away. - That women could and did drink too was conveniently overlooked...

But what happened if the husband died first? Especially if there were smaller children. Well, a suitable young, strong man. Usually a younger son of another farmer, simply married the widow. That meant that she and her children could stay and were provided for. It also meant that she retained her status.
For the husband that was a big opportunity! Now he had his own farm, instead of having to work at his older brother's farm or at home at his dad's farm or become a farm laborer or worse: being drafted to the army... And on top of that he married an experienced housekeeper. Who probably had a few children who were useful around the farm.

For a young woman marrying an older man who had a farm, that was a big step up the social ladder. She became mistress of a working household. She didn't have to stay at home working at her dad or brother's farm. Or more likely seek employment at another farm or at the local noble's manor. Or not unlikely ending up pregnant and having to marry someone of lower status.

It was far from that common that young men and women say around twenty married. And for love? Well, that was a luxury the poor and youngest siblings could afford. Those who stood to inheriting a farm or had a chance of taking over a farm they had to marry whom it was practical.
Because there were only an X number of farms available due to the agricultural technique at the time and to ensure that land belonging to the individual farms didn't become too small.

Okay, should you happen to marry someone who is old and ugly, well, with a bit of luck he/she would die within a few years. - And make no mistake, quite a few older unloved husbands/wives, especially if they became bedridden, would quietly have been suffocated by a pillow. There are a number of sources hinting at that.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Tilia C.

Orders are usually returned after the death of the recepient, they are not inherited. So her order will be returned someday, it does not matter whether she keeps it for some more decades or not. I didn't know that there were cases of peope being deprived of this order. But I think we can all agree that Alexandra can't be compared with Ceauşescu.

The higher orders. Dannebrog and the Elephant are indeed to be returned upon the death of the recipient.
But there is absolutely no reason to strip Alexandra of these orders (or foreign orders she may have been given). That would be nothing short of sensational!
Alexandra would have to become a criminal or constantly talking about intimate details about the DRF for that to happen.

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Marriage between "older" women and young men was very common in the countryside in DK a few hundred years ago.

And to get a parish a young priest was expected to marry the widow of the dead priest and thus "inherit" the parish.

[Muhler]

Okay, as can be expected details are beginning to emerge, not least after the gossip magazines, Her & Nu and Se & Hør have hit the streets.
Now, I emphasize that these two magazines are unreliable, however what goes on in the Copenhagen nightlife is what they specialize in.

You be the judge.

Bag den brutale skilsmisse: Alexandra og Martin levede hver sit liv - Royale | www.bt.dk

BT quotes headlines from both magazines and according to them Martin Jørgensen has been seen ever more frequently partying hard at nightclubs in Copenhagen. "Drunk and inappropriate", "Partied at a gay club", "Liquer-stoned with hot blonde" are some of the headlines about Martin Jørgensen BT quotes here.
In contrast Alexandra stayed at home.

BT (and others) also put emphasis on Alexandra not using expressions like "Still best friends" and "common decision" in her press release. But rather that she took the decision.

BT has also been out talking to people who know the couple. All the sources wish to remain anonymous but here are the quotes:
"It's no surprise Alexandra wanted a divorce. They have lived separately (as in not having a life together) that way for a longer period and Martin have over a number of years nailed the pedal to the floor on his own and gone a lot to town along with his male friends".

"Fair enough to go to town once in a while and have a fun time. But why does he get so drunk. I don't understand that".

Martin and friends are also partying when visiting the houses in Turkey, he and Alexandra owns (or one of them owns): "It's hard partying both in Copenhagen and when they are abroad. For example in Alanya (Turkey) when they are on holiday together. It's heavy fuel".

Another source express an understanding why Alexandra, as the woman she is, would no longer tolerate Martin Jørgensen's lifestyle with lots of going to town and liquor"

Alexandra is often seen in daytime at the in-club Cafe Victor, having a cup of tea with her female friends, while Martin attends the very same club at night.

BT writes that the "red thread" of the account the sources come with, is of a Martin Jørgensen who parties hard with his friends and drinks hard, while Alexandra stays at home more and more.

According to her secretary, Alexandra do not wish to comment further.

[eya]

Muhler you are the best reporter who have the Royal Forums about this topic in denmark. However unreliable or not I see that most have targeted as responsible for the divorce Martin.

[princess maggie]

From the little I have read about the previous divorce I seem to remember the same reports: late nights out on the town and lots of drinking.so the question is were the men out drinking because their marriage was falling apart or was the marriage falling apart because they were out drinking and whatever....
I don't think I'll invest any time trying to answer that question.
Seems the tabloids have the same formula for all divorce reporting. There as as many reasons for divorces in general as there are divorces.

[Muhler]

True, Princess Gertrude.

I'm not particular impressed by Martin Jørgensen, but there is a saying in Danish: "They all say Jeppe is drinking, but they don't say why Jeppe is drinking".

If I am to speculate. I could believe that he is drinking and partying because he is unhappy in his marriage. Some people react like that. And there are ups and downs in all marriages.
But I don't believe it to be honest. It may be one reason, it probably is, but not the main reason.
I find Martin Jørgensen to be pretty immature. He seems to have made a few kills with his investments, because I doubt Alexandra would be willing to finance his partying at hot and expensive in-clubs. Money can change people's behavior - it can also attract the wrong sort of "friends". But he certainly live an expensive life! A sports-car aka a show-off-mobile aka a chick-magnet... Such cars are insanely expensive here in DK due to taxes. I cannot imagine Alexandra advising him to invest in such a vehicle.

I don't know Alexandra personally, I can't say how she is to live with, only that she like all people must have her flaws as well.

A month ago Martin left the house at Svanemøllevej. Something IMO happened a month ago that made Alexandra say enough is enough and again IMO kick him out. - What that something was is anyone's guess. I can on top off my head easily imagine four or five things serious enough for Alexandra to kick him out on the street on the spot and call her layer the next day.

Having said all that we shall consider that there are more victims in this mess.
First and foremost there are the children.
Then there is Joachim in particular and probably also the Regent Couple. It hurts when your children and grandchildren are unhappy.
But there is also Martin Jørgensen's parents. Nikolai and Felix are bonus-grandchildren to them and from all accounts they had a fine relationship. They may be asking themselves: Are we going to see our "grandchildren" again?

Alexandra's parents were on the other hand very fortunate. They lived next to Schackenborg after the divorce, so they were guaranteed to see their grandchildren.