Countess Alexandra and Martin Jørgensen to Separate: September 8, 2015


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
We might think it is an age issue, but who knows really? Now , I was surprise to find out that one of my ancestors in the mid 1700s when they married in Denmark, she was 35 and he was 21. I t was a shock to me to think in the 1700s something like this would occur, but it did! and they stayed married together until their death and have several kids! Some times I think it was an arrange marriage! Was she hot at 35? or was her a rich lady? We soon shall find out if he remarried and have kids what was the issue with Martin and Alexandra
 
:previous: Indeed. The mentioning of age bothers me especially because I'm fairly certain that it wouldn't have been cited an issue had it been the other way around with an older man divorcing a younger woman.

On one of the other royal discussion boards, one of the posters mentioned that Alexandra should have returned her orders and the diamond tiara she received from the Queen when she and Joachim divorced. That beautiful tiara (the Alexandrine diamond drop tiara) was an 18th birthday gift for QM, and she was nice enough to give it to Alexandra. I don't know what the rules are concerning orders, but even though it would have been a good gesture to return it, someday it will be inherited, presumably by Nikolai, who can give it to his wife. The DRF doesn't have a lot of tiaras, so maybe that is Alexandra's way of insuring that Joachim's branch of the family will have at least one.

I'm almost certain that the Alexandrine Drop Tiara will be lent out and eventually passed along to any future wives of Nikolai and Felix. Just as how Marie's tiara(s, a girl can hope) presumably will be passed on to Athena and a possible future wife of Henrik (although Athena, as Princess of Denmark, might be given one of her own). As for orders, why on earth should she hand in those? She divorced Joachim but she was still a notable member of the royal family at one point and she's the mother of the 7th and 8th in line of succession to the throne. IIRC, the last time someone was deprived of the Order of the Elephant was Ceauşescu in 1989.

And I think we can all rest assured that had QMII wished for Alexandra to hand in the Alexandrine Drop Tiara, it would have happened already.
 
Orders are usually returned after the death of the recepient, they are not inherited. So her order will be returned someday, it does not matter whether she keeps it for some more decades or not. I didn't know that there were cases of peope being deprived of this order. But I think we can all agree that Alexandra can't be compared with Ceauşescu.

As for the tiara, I am convinced that the Queen always intended that it would be passed on to Joachim and Alexandra's children, thus moving away from the mainline of the DRF. The divorce(s) don't have anything to do with that, imho.
 
We might think it is an age issue, but who knows really? Now , I was surprise to find out that one of my ancestors in the mid 1700s when they married in Denmark, she was 35 and he was 21. I t was a shock to me to think in the 1700s something like this would occur, but it did! and they stayed married together until their death and have several kids! Some times I think it was an arrange marriage! Was she hot at 35? or was her a rich lady? We soon shall find out if he remarried and have kids what was the issue with Martin and Alexandra

Marriage between "older" women and young men was very common in the countryside in DK a few hundred years ago.

The reason was very practical.
A family owned a farm, if the wife died, the husband simply took a new wife. Often a younger woman but far from always, experience matters. They would probably have a couple of children and things moved on until the husband eventually died and the oldest son took over. He would then marry himself and take care of the widow, whether that was his mother or stepmother. And also younger siblings.
A man who had a farm should have a wife, that was proper, that was practical and that was the right thing to do. Because the wife was responsible for running the household and the economy. She was the one who had the keys to the house (and wore them as a symbol of her status) and she was the one who had the key to the chest with the money. The reasoning being that men had more opportunities to slip away and drink and gamble the fortune away. - That women could and did drink too was conveniently overlooked...

But what happened if the husband died first? Especially if there were smaller children. Well, a suitable young, strong man. Usually a younger son of another farmer, simply married the widow. That meant that she and her children could stay and were provided for. It also meant that she retained her status.
For the husband that was a big opportunity! Now he had his own farm, instead of having to work at his older brother's farm or at home at his dad's farm or become a farm laborer or worse: being drafted to the army...:ermm: And on top of that he married an experienced housekeeper. Who probably had a few children who were useful around the farm.

For a young woman marrying an older man who had a farm, that was a big step up the social ladder. She became mistress of a working household. She didn't have to stay at home working at her dad or brother's farm. Or more likely seek employment at another farm or at the local noble's manor. Or not unlikely ending up pregnant and having to marry someone of lower status.

It was far from that common that young men and women say around twenty married. And for love? Well, that was a luxury the poor and youngest siblings could afford. Those who stood to inheriting a farm or had a chance of taking over a farm they had to marry whom it was practical.
Because there were only an X number of farms available due to the agricultural technique at the time and to ensure that land belonging to the individual farms didn't become too small.

Okay, should you happen to marry someone who is old and ugly, well, with a bit of luck he/she would die within a few years. - And make no mistake, quite a few older unloved husbands/wives, especially if they became bedridden, would quietly have been suffocated by a pillow. There are a number of sources hinting at that.
 
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Orders are usually returned after the death of the recepient, they are not inherited. So her order will be returned someday, it does not matter whether she keeps it for some more decades or not. I didn't know that there were cases of peope being deprived of this order. But I think we can all agree that Alexandra can't be compared with Ceauşescu.

The higher orders. Dannebrog and the Elephant are indeed to be returned upon the death of the recipient.
But there is absolutely no reason to strip Alexandra of these orders (or foreign orders she may have been given). That would be nothing short of sensational!
Alexandra would have to become a criminal or constantly talking about intimate details about the DRF for that to happen.
 
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Marriage between "older" women and young men was very common in the countryside in DK a few hundred years ago.
And to get a parish a young priest was expected to marry the widow of the dead priest and thus "inherit" the parish.
 
Okay, as can be expected details are beginning to emerge, not least after the gossip magazines, Her & Nu and Se & Hør have hit the streets.
Now, I emphasize that these two magazines are unreliable, however what goes on in the Copenhagen nightlife is what they specialize in.

You be the judge.

Bag den brutale skilsmisse: Alexandra og Martin levede hver sit liv - Royale | www.bt.dk

BT quotes headlines from both magazines and according to them Martin Jørgensen has been seen ever more frequently partying hard at nightclubs in Copenhagen. "Drunk and inappropriate", "Partied at a gay club", "Liquer-stoned with hot blonde" are some of the headlines about Martin Jørgensen BT quotes here.
In contrast Alexandra stayed at home.

BT (and others) also put emphasis on Alexandra not using expressions like "Still best friends" and "common decision" in her press release. But rather that she took the decision.

BT has also been out talking to people who know the couple. All the sources wish to remain anonymous but here are the quotes:
"It's no surprise Alexandra wanted a divorce. They have lived separately (as in not having a life together) that way for a longer period and Martin have over a number of years nailed the pedal to the floor on his own and gone a lot to town along with his male friends".

"Fair enough to go to town once in a while and have a fun time. But why does he get so drunk. I don't understand that".

Martin and friends are also partying when visiting the houses in Turkey, he and Alexandra owns (or one of them owns): "It's hard partying both in Copenhagen and when they are abroad. For example in Alanya (Turkey) when they are on holiday together. It's heavy fuel".

Another source express an understanding why Alexandra, as the woman she is, would no longer tolerate Martin Jørgensen's lifestyle with lots of going to town and liquor"

Alexandra is often seen in daytime at the in-club Cafe Victor, having a cup of tea with her female friends, while Martin attends the very same club at night.

BT writes that the "red thread" of the account the sources come with, is of a Martin Jørgensen who parties hard with his friends and drinks hard, while Alexandra stays at home more and more.

According to her secretary, Alexandra do not wish to comment further.
 
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:previous: Muhler you are the best reporter who have the Royal Forums about this topic in denmark. ;) However unreliable or not I see that most have targeted as responsible for the divorce Martin.
 
From the little I have read about the previous divorce I seem to remember the same reports: late nights out on the town and lots of drinking.so the question is were the men out drinking because their marriage was falling apart or was the marriage falling apart because they were out drinking and whatever....
I don't think I'll invest any time trying to answer that question.
Seems the tabloids have the same formula for all divorce reporting. There as as many reasons for divorces in general as there are divorces.
 
:previous: True, Princess Gertrude.

I'm not particular impressed by Martin Jørgensen, but there is a saying in Danish: "They all say Jeppe is drinking, but they don't say why Jeppe is drinking".

If I am to speculate. I could believe that he is drinking and partying because he is unhappy in his marriage. Some people react like that. And there are ups and downs in all marriages.
But I don't believe it to be honest. It may be one reason, it probably is, but not the main reason.
I find Martin Jørgensen to be pretty immature. He seems to have made a few kills with his investments, because I doubt Alexandra would be willing to finance his partying at hot and expensive in-clubs. Money can change people's behavior - it can also attract the wrong sort of "friends". But he certainly live an expensive life! A sports-car aka a show-off-mobile aka a chick-magnet... Such cars are insanely expensive here in DK due to taxes. I cannot imagine Alexandra advising him to invest in such a vehicle.

I don't know Alexandra personally, I can't say how she is to live with, only that she like all people must have her flaws as well.

A month ago Martin left the house at Svanemøllevej. Something IMO happened a month ago that made Alexandra say enough is enough and again IMO kick him out. - What that something was is anyone's guess. I can on top off my head easily imagine four or five things serious enough for Alexandra to kick him out on the street on the spot and call her layer the next day.

Having said all that we shall consider that there are more victims in this mess.
First and foremost there are the children.
Then there is Joachim in particular and probably also the Regent Couple. It hurts when your children and grandchildren are unhappy.
But there is also Martin Jørgensen's parents. Nikolai and Felix are bonus-grandchildren to them and from all accounts they had a fine relationship. They may be asking themselves: Are we going to see our "grandchildren" again?

Alexandra's parents were on the other hand very fortunate. They lived next to Schackenborg after the divorce, so they were guaranteed to see their grandchildren.
 
That's sad news. Poor Alexandra, she has had two marriages that have ended in divorce. I wonder if she will marry again for a third time or stay single. It must also be tough for Nikolai and Felix having to go through this again, as someone said upthread divorces and family rifts can really affect the children involved.

I'm not surprised by the divorce though. Given the fact that he has a daughter whom he never sees, it will be interesting to see if he will carry on seeing Nikolai and Felix.
 
Are Alexandra's parents still living? It was very generous of Joachim to allow them to live at Schackenborg after the divorce.

I too felt for Felix - he looked so uncomfortable in those pictures. The press should have been satisfied with just pics of Alexandra and left him out of it.:sad:
 
Her father passed away in 2010, but I believe her mother is alive.
 
Yes, her mother is still alive; she is 82 now.
 
From the beginning I thought Martin was the toyboy who liked her social status & money and Alex was the older woman trying to stay young. Some marriages work well under those circumstances, if both partners do their homework. Not sure Martin understood that when he posed in is too tight dandy suits, still falling out of nightclubs in his 40ies.

I always thought that Alex was smart in many things but I couldn't believe that it took her so long to work out that there were little values to share and that there was no point in an overdone wedding with tiara and wearing the ex' jewellery, only to cause pain within the family at the end.
 
From the beginning I thought Martin was the toyboy who liked her social status & money and Alex was the older woman trying to stay young. Some marriages work well under those circumstances, if both partners do their homework. Not sure Martin understood that when he posed in is too tight dandy suits, still falling out of nightclubs in his 40ies.

I always thought that Alex was smart in many things but I couldn't believe that it took her so long to work out that there were little values to share and that there was no point in an overdone wedding with tiara and wearing the ex' jewellery, only to cause pain within the family at the end.


My guess is, she was besotten with Martin, and this overdone wedding was his wish ... so she went along with it...

Bottom line: Nothing wrong with having a toyboy, just don't marry him :whistling:

And I think it is fortunate that, they dont have a child together, as it would complicate the dirvorce and maybe he would try to get custody just to get more money out of her...

I don't think she stayes alone - she doesn't seem to be the kind of woman who likes to stay on her own. but if she marries a third time? Who knows ;)
 
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I'm not particular impressed by Martin Jørgensen, but there is a saying in Danish: "They all say Jeppe is drinking, but they don't say why Jeppe is drinking".

If I am to speculate. I could believe that he is drinking and partying because he is unhappy in his marriage. Some people react like that. And there are ups and downs in all marriages.

I don't know Alexandra personally, I can't say how she is to live with, only that she like all people must have her flaws as well.

It's interesting, that there seems to be an automatic "Poor Alexandra" reaction for many. Is it because she's a woman? What if she is a pain to live with and the drinking and partying is a reaction to that? For both Martin and Joachim.

I am not saying that she is a pain, I can't possibly know that. While I do get a "Would you buy a used car from this man" reaction, when seeing a photo of Martin, I still think there are always two sides to the story.

Joachim got the blame for the first divorce and this time, she was pretty quick to give an interview that placed the blame on Martin.
 
It's interesting, that there seems to be an automatic "Poor Alexandra" reaction for many. Is it because she's a woman? What if she is a pain to live with and the drinking and partying is a reaction to that? For both Martin and Joachim.

I am not saying that she is a pain, I can't possibly know that. While I do get a "Would you buy a used car from this man" reaction, when seeing a photo of Martin, I still think there are always two sides to the story.

Joachim got the blame for the first divorce and this time, she was pretty quick to give an interview that placed the blame on Martin.

You do have a point, but as I'm a woman I'm on her side ;) and blame the men :lol:
 
It's interesting, that there seems to be an automatic "Poor Alexandra" reaction for many. Is it because she's a woman? What if she is a pain to live with and the drinking and partying is a reaction to that? For both Martin and Joachim.

I am not saying that she is a pain, I can't possibly know that. While I do get a "Would you buy a used car from this man" reaction, when seeing a photo of Martin, I still think there are always two sides to the story.

Joachim got the blame for the first divorce and this time, she was pretty quick to give an interview that placed the blame on Martin.
I have been thinking the exact same thing
 
My guess is, she was besotten with Martin, and this overdone wedding was his wish ... so she went along with it...

Out of curiosity, why do you think the elaborate wedding was Martin's idea?

To be honest I thought the whole thing smelled a bit like "Hey, I'm still a around".
 
My guess is, she was besotten with Martin, and this overdone wedding was his wish ... so she went along with it...

Bottom line: Nothing wrong with having a toyboy, just don't marry him :whistling:

I hope Alex wasnt too besotted with Martin and took care of a few things, Martin needs money to continue with his lifestyle so I wonder if Alex pays for him or if he starts working. I wouldn't be surprised to see him write a tell-all book, I am sure he has a lot to say about Alex, Joachim & the DRF.
 
Out of curiosity, why do you think the elaborate wedding was Martin's idea?

To be honest I thought the whole thing smelled a bit like "Hey, I'm still a around".

Muhler, on that note I agree 100%. Plus, although a woman, I don't blame these break-ups only on just first or second husband. A marriage takes two to make and also break. I have been there done that, although 40 years ago, but the theme is still the same. When it come down to the bottom line, both must want it to last or it just doesn't.
 
I hope Alex wasnt too besotted with Martin and took care of a few things, Martin needs money to continue with his lifestyle so I wonder if Alex pays for him or if he starts working. I wouldn't be surprised to see him write a tell-all book, I am sure he has a lot to say about Alex, Joachim & the DRF.

They're going to have to pay him off. :whistling:

And by this I mean - ALL families have stuff they don't want anybody knowing about. This guy is going to need to fund the lifestyle to which he has grown accustomed somehow.
 
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They're going to have to pay him off. :whistling:

And by this I mean - ALL families have stuff they don't want anybody knowing about. This guy is going to need to fund the lifestyle to which he has grown accustomed somehow.

Oh I agree and people will rant and rave when it happens even though women do it all the time and that is fine. People can get really odd ideas over what is correct and what is not.
 
It's interesting, that there seems to be an automatic "Poor Alexandra" reaction for many. Is it because she's a woman? What if she is a pain to live with and the drinking and partying is a reaction to that? For both Martin and Joachim.

I am not saying that she is a pain, I can't possibly know that. While I do get a "Would you buy a used car from this man" reaction, when seeing a photo of Martin, I still think there are always two sides to the story.

Joachim got the blame for the first divorce and this time, she was pretty quick to give an interview that placed the blame on Martin.

Hmm, that's an interesting observation and something I have never thought about before. It is something to consider.

However since I'm of the same gender as Alexandra, I tend to lean more towards her side of things as well!
 
It's interesting that people assume that it was Alexandra wanted the 'overdone' wedding.....just because it was her 2nd wedding...it was still Martin's 1st.

The same thing happened with one of my best friends who was planning a wedding to a man who had already had the 'overdone' wedding. He said, 'I've already had the big wedding.' Guess what, I replied...'She hasn't'

IMO any decision on what type of wedding you have should be a mutual decision between the bride and groom. I know at some point someone has to give but just because one has lived the dream doesn't mean the other person should have their wedding day what they envision it to be as as well.

I mean why shouldn't Marie have had her day just because Joachim has already had already done the deed.
 
It's interesting that people assume that it was Alexandra wanted the 'overdone' wedding.....just because it was her 2nd wedding...it was still Martin's 1st..
Isn´t it the other way around? That people assume that it was Martin who wanted the overdone wedding? :ermm:
 
I always believe it is very sad when there is a breakdown of a marriage. Especially as it affects so many people. I just hope they tried really hard to make it work. As most of us know a lot goes on in a marriage and usually the blame is not down to just one particular thing. I wish them both an amicable split.
 
Hmm, that's an interesting observation and something I have never thought about before. It is something to consider.

However since I'm of the same gender as Alexandra, I tend to lean more towards her side of things as well!

99% of the time both partners contribute to the end of a relationship, IMO. What I've seen when people I know have had a string of bad relationships is that they're often lovely, smart people who keep making the same mistakes.

Alexandra's second marriage has broken up amid rumours of drinking and partying on the part of her husband. There were very similar rumours going around when the first marriage broke up, although a tighter lid was kept on things due to the family the alleged drinker/partier belonged to. Alexandra wouldn't be the first person in the world to find that sort of behaviour cute and charming at first and then have it wear thin as time went on.
 
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