Costs, Income, Fortune and Expenditures of the Danish Royal Family


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
The Danes are very generous towards their (former) royals. For an example: in the Dutch system Prince Joachim, Princess Benedikte, Countess Alexandra and Count Ingolf would not have received any cent from the State.

The differences in the amounts between Mary, Alexandra and Joachim probably are caused by the costs for the housing and staff. Crown Princess Mary makes use of the "infrastructure" (the housing, the staff, etc.) which is already functioning for her husband, the Crown Prince. That makes her "cost component" lower than that of Countess Alexandra.

In Belgium we saw that the late Queen Fabiola had a higher dotation that Queen Mathilde. In the Netherlands former Queen Beatrix has a higher dotation than Queen Máxima. It is all logical as Queen Mathilde and Queen Máxima both make use of the "infrastructure" which is already there for their husbands.
 
:previous: Interesting.

Under the Dutch system Joachim, our Marie and Benedikte wouldn't be working and not expected to be working by the public.
In other words we wouldn't see them except at the odd gala dinner.

Oddly enough Ingolf has rarely gotten heat from the public for getting his apanage, presumably because most people find it fair that he gets a compensation for not becoming king.
 
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I was just thinking that Muhler, all this talk about Alexandra getting an apanage and Count Ingolf still gets a fairly sizeable amount. I'm sure i'm fair in saying that Alexandra has done more for the monarchy in the past two decades than Ingolf has.
It certainly puts all the talk about why she got an apangage under a different light, you could argue a precedent had already been set in Ingolf getting an apanage after loosing his place in the RF.
 
Yes, except that Ingolf didn't opt out of his position as the future heir had Knud become king.
He lost his position due to the change in the Constitution in 1953 and that wasn't his fault.

Alexandra opted out. After all she could have stayed married and kept up appearances. - Unhappy, yes, but still a full member of the DRF.
IMO this is more about the amount of work Alexandra is seen to do, rather than the size of the apanage she is getting.
 
That seems an overall bargain. Boston has a new bridge that cost $106 million and a couple of recently built Chicago bridges cost $3 - 13 million. Sometimes it helps me to relate costs to tangible items that also come out of taxes.
 
:previous: The total cost of the monarchy was officially calculated a few years ago and everything, including apanage, upkeep of palaces (exterior) and parks, additional transportation and representation not covered by the DRF, the guards battalion of the Royal Lifeguard Regiment and the Royal Yacht was around 450 million DKK (Plus/minus 25 million, from my memory).
Security was not included in the calculation - for security reasons of course.

So the total yearly costs for the DRF: 450 million DKK = 62.7 million $ = 60.3 million € = 44.5 million £

To that comes additional local expenses when the DRF are on road tour.
 
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Summary of a Q&A in Billed Bladet #06, 2016.

Where a K. Jensen basically complains that Mary is using too much money on clothes.

We all have an opinion about that and the most interesting thing in Jon Bloch Skipper's reply is this little detail:
Of the total apanage to the CP-Couple of around 20 million DKK a year, about four million go to the so called "frame-amount", which among other things cover clothes, furnishing and other costs of a private matter - expenses that by the way is exempt from vat. and as such cost far less than what the rest of us pay.

--------

- In other words the combined de facto salary (counting refunded vat) to M&F constitute around five million DKK - plus free housing, free transport and free food. And of course no income tax or tax on property and so on.
Five million DKK = 670.000 € = 520.000 £ = 754.000 $

Since M&F don't pay taxes I will roughly estimate that their combined salary is equivalent to around ten million DKK a year.
Then of course there is the income from private investments.
 
Not sure if this should have been placed in a thread about Villa Joachim. (Calling the thread Emiliekildevej would perhaps be something of a mouthful for non-Danish-speakers... :p)

Anyway, here is an article about the vat-exemption that includes the members of the DRF. http://www.bt.dk/royale/joachim-sat...nd-nu-faar-han-penge-tilbage-fra-skatteyderne

When J&M bought their new house, they added 76 square meters.
Looking at the papers it has emerged that J&M were refunded 852.571 DKK.
Including the bill for the rebuilding of the house.
That is more than half a million DKK more than over the the previous three years.

In other words in 2015, J&M bought goods and services worth more than four million DKK. While the average during the three years prior to that was 1.7 million DKK.

The economy-chief of the DRF replied in an e-mail: "Prince Joachim and Princess Marie have recently completed a rebuilding of their property on Emiliekildevej. The rebuilding has indeed meant that the expences were higher than usual. According to the law of Prince Joachim's apanage, vat of maximum 25 % of the apanage can be refunded, which was the case in 2015".

- Right, since practically everything here in DK has a vat of 25 %, we can conclude that J&M under normal circumstances have expenses for 1.7 million DKK = 252.000 $ = 180.000 £ = 228.000 €
Everything possible included apart from the odd icecream for the children.
To put it into persepctive: According to Danish Statistics (it can't be more official than that!) the average Danish couple with two children earn a total of 885.000 DKK and have a net disposal (after tax) of 338.000 DKK.
Read more about the average Dane here, in English: The average dane: Key Figures - Statistics Denmark

Now since Joachim's apanage constitute 3.4 million DKK a year, we can conclude they that spend half of that amount on goods and services. And that the rest cover expenses for official duties and salary for staff. - And presumably also a sum they put aside.
So in my estimate money is not the biggest concern J&M has. And it presumably wasn't either before the sale of Schackenborg.

Now, of course such articles are mean to infuriate the reader (It really is wrong the royals pay no vat :bang:). However, if they are to pay vat their apanage would naturally go up correspondingly. I mean who would be willing to suddenly pay 25 % more for your goods without compensation?

If I am to speculate, a guess would be that M&F have a relative personal expenditure of some 50 % more than J&M. They have four children, they travel a lot more, which require clothes and jewellery for Mary (Frederik just need a new suits and a couple of shoes once in a while), which can also be used privately. Also, it's my impression that M&F have a larger circle of "dining-friends" than J&M who basically only have 4-5 couples as "dining-friends". Then of course there are expenses for friends and not least family staying with them and going on the odd private holiday to Australia isn't exactly cheap either!
What do you say? Am I completely off the mark?
 
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The tabloid Ekstra Bladet is in these days embarking on a veritable crusade about how wasteful (and corrupt) the DRF is. Today it's Mary's turn:
Mary har tasker for 1,5 mio. - mindst – Ekstra Bladet

The writer Jan Körner... has by counting the number of different bags seen in photos of Mary since she became a CP and by calculating on an exchange rate of 6.6 DKK to one US Dollar (the exchange rate is very high these days BTW at some point to Dollar was down to a little less that 5 DKK) he has reached the conclusion that Mary has acquired bags for at the very least 1.5 million DKK.
Of course presents, discounts and so is not taken into consieration. Nor is the insane price for one bag Mary was presented to by Marie Chantal factored in.

It's interesting to glance at the comments. Those who comment on Ekstra Bladet can easily match those who comment on Daily Mail! But the majority don't seem impressed.

Well, I included this article here to show that TRF does not cover negative press. And with this I think I have wasted enough time on this.
 
Ekstra Bladet has an article about the expenditure of the DRF in 2015, which they naturally manage to twist in a negative angle.

Røde tal hos Margrethe: Fødselsdagsfest kostede kassen – Ekstra Bladet

So let's look at the actual figures.

The Regent Couple and Benedikte received altogether 78.4 million DKK and on top of that came an additional income of 2.5 million DKK.

With all expenses paid there was a deficit of 4.2 million DKK.

The court writes in its report: In 2015 Her Majesty the Queen turned 75 and the birthday was celebrated at various events, which is reflected in the increase of representative costs.
On top of that there have been a number of expenses for renovations of buildings and furnishing".

The representative costs went up by 1.9 million DKK to 5.8 million DKK dur to the birthday.
The costs for modernization and maintenance were increased by 3.3 million DKK to a total of 4.2 million DKK.
They were very much spend of renovating a building at the Amalienborg complex and painting the windows at Fredensborg.

The around 100 employees under QMII received a salary of a total 49.4 million DKK, also covered by the apanage.

Of the apanage 10.2 million DKK is a so-called Frame-amount (basically the royal's salary) which are not earmarked for anything specific but are to be used for other purposes and expenses.

However the DRF had a net-saving of 20.4 million DKK, which has due to the deficit been reduced to 16.2 million DKK.

- In other words the budget is in minus for the 2015, but the fortune is still in plus. Something I think most families are familiar with.

As a thumb-rule:
9 DKK = 1 £.
6 DKK = 1 $.
7.5 DKK = 1 €.
 
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Ekstra Bladet has an article about the expenditure of the DRF in 2015, which they naturally manage to twist in a negative angle.


With all expenses paid there was a deficit of 4.2 million DKK.
The Crown Prince couple's court was on the + side. Did EB manage to twist that into something negative too? ;)
 
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The Crown Prince couple's court was on the + side. Did EB manage to twist that into something negative too? ;)

Give them time, give them time. ;)
 
Dankortet gløder i luksusvillaen: Nye tal afslører Joachims rekordhøje privatforbrug

BT has an article about Joachim's vat refund.
As you know the members of the DRF are exempt from taxation and when paying vat for goods or services, the vat can be refunded.
Joachim's refunds were for 2015 three times higher than the year before, after moving in at their new home.
That has already been covered elsewhere in this thread.

Here is the interesting bit. The DRF members can only get a refund of up to 25 % of their total apanage. - That IMO is a very sound precaution.
Anyway, Joachim has for 2015 been given the highest possible refund, i.e. 25 % of an apanage of 3.411.486 DKK, which amounts to 852.872 DKK.

BT has been in contact with Søren Kruse who is the one in charge of the finances within the DRF: "It costs to move into a new property and that's what the Prince has used his money on. When the Prince is having the house painted, buys new furnitures, security-equipment and so on, that vat-refundable. That is well within his rights".

But the maximum amount refundable?
"I don't think it has happened before (*). There is nothing odd in that, the Prince doesn't do it every year. If you yourself move into a villa, you will have more expenses, but that you don't do every year".

(*) Actually Alexandra after the divorce from Joachim, while she was still a princess, also used her vat exemption to the fullest at least once. I clearly remember that article and I might be able to dig it up.
 
:previous: thanks Muhler
makes sense when you make a move, your expenses go up.
now, if this happens every year then EB has a story lol
:flowers:
 
:previous: So they were under budget this year but of course they focus on the two years (out of 11) they were over. ;)
Nice pictures though :flowers:
 
With eight royal grandchildren, “simple mathematics” will require a rethinking of who qualifies for an annual salary financed by Danish taxpayers, politicians said over the weekend.

There is uniform agreement that Crown Prince Frederik’s son, Prince Christian, should receive the annual apanage as an heir to the throne. But future funding for Christian’s three younger siblings and the four children of Prince Joachim appears less certain.

“Simple mathematics dictate that there needs to be some sort of limit. Otherwise within a few generations there will be several hundred princes and princesses who need an annual salary. Anyone can see that that won’t fly,” Jakob Elleman-Jensen, a spokesman for ruling party Venstre, told Politiken.
Read more: Denmark ready to cut off money to royal grandkids - The Local
 
:previous:

Yes Rudolph,

A huge debate is running in Denmark these days - including both the Danes and politicians - should Prince Joachim and family continue to receive annual salary/apanage?

Now that Prince Nikolaj turns 18 years next year the debate is back up running.

Should Prince Joachim children receive salary/apanage?

Over 70% of the Danes means 'No'. And many politicians likewise.

And which members of the DRF shall actually receive a annual salary/apanage?

**

I understand the debate. I must admit I don't think there's enough reason to that Prince Joachim, Princess Marie and their children receive apanage. After the stunt with Schackenborg Manor they have a huge personal fortune. Maybe bigger than the Regent couple and the Crown Prince couple. Their workload is minimal! I'm actually surprised at how little they are working... The reason they would leave Schackenborg Manor and move to Copenhagen was to better reconciliation the family life with their work life. That has not happened. Never has Joachim and Marie had as light a workload as the last 2 years. Rarely have Marie more than 1-2 duties per month (in addition to the gala evenings and things like that.) They are not visible for the Danes and that is IMO one of the reasons why so large a majority of the Danes no longer think that part of the Danish royal family should have annual salary/apanage. In addition, there are several reasons too. Denmark is still in a economic crisis. Why should some have a life of luxury without doing much?

Having glimpsed a lot of Facebook comments, polls and my own generale feeling is the generale Dane's point of view is (and other Danish members are welcome to give their opinion):

Only Queen Margrethe, Crown Prince Frederik, Crown Princess Mary and their children shall receive annual salary/apanage. In short: The reigning Regent and the Heir-to-the-throne couple and their children. Or the oldest one, Prince Christian. As he also is heir to the throne.


The comment with most likes sound like this:

Only the queen, and the crown prince couple and their children should get full apanage. They're also the only ones in the royal family who actually work hard. Take away the apanage from prince Joachim and famliy. They are still wealthy after their sales of Schackenborg Manor. And not popular. Perhaps the Danish point of view had been different if Joachim and Marie had worked just a little hard for Denmark. Their effort is embarrassing minimal!! Let the queen and the crown prince couple get full salary. The reigning regent and the heir to the throne couple.

ADDED:
Also Princess Benedikte and (Count Ingolf?) receives salary. The debate does not seem to include much about them however. Prince Henrik apanage (after his retirement) is also often debated. Many no longer means he should receive annual salary. Others means he should be rewarded for the work he has done for Denmark for many years.
 
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I think once you start unpicking it your going to end up with the Sovereign and the Heir as the only ones receiving an official allowance.

I had't realised that Nicolai could start receiving an allowance once he turns 18. I guess this means some big decisions for the RF as whether he does start receiving an allowance or not will set a precedence for the other children of Joachim and possibly even the younger children of F&M.

If they do want him to receive an allowance maybe the best way would be for Alexandra to give up a proportion of her allowance and give it to Nicolai instead.
 
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In many monarchies only the present King, the future King and eventually the King who has abdicated the kingship receive an apanage. In most monarchies this is one amount per "function", so also the spouses included. In the Netherlands the apanages to the spouses are separated from that to the King or Heir, giving them independence. But that an ex-spouse to a junior prince receives an annual apanage is quite generous from the Danish taxpayers indeed.
 
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In many monarchies only the present King, the future King and eventually the King who has abdicated the kingship receive an apanage. In most monarchies this is one amount per "function", so also the spouses included. In the Netherlands the apanages to the spouses are separated from that to the King or Heir, giving them independence. But that an ex-spouse to a junior prince receives an annual apanage is quite generous from the Danish taxpayers indeed.
And so it also is in Denmark. Only the Monarch and Heir gets appanage. The reason Joachim gets appanage, is because the politician in 1995 decided that he(and Alexandra) also should be on civil list, because they also did work for the Royal House and Denmark. But traditionally its only the Monarch and Heir. Isabella, Vincent and Josephine will not get appanage.
The discussion in the media is just usual hysteric pseudo debate created by history blank media and politicians. The government party's political spokesperson said it quite clearly and calmly a few days ago, only the Monarch and Heir gets appanage, until the politicians by law decides to otherwise. But that was quickly(deliberately) ignored, because what should we then write about, that gives click bait and massive brainless discussions like Roskildes stupid facebook quote.

Anyway, now the Royal House has come out with a comment on the debate:
- It is not expected and it has never been that other than Prince Christian for his time must have appanage, she says Lene Balleby.
Kongehuset om apanagen: Vi forventer kun årpenge til prins Christian | Nyheder | DR
Now that should put everything to rest!:)
 
Maybe they will get around it by giving the grand children some sort of allowance out off the Queen's apanage, in the same way Henrik gets some share of the money for himself.

Interesting, I wonder why there was such a desire to give Joachim and Alexandra an appanage? Doesn't Count Ingolf also receive an allowance?
 
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Kongehuset om apanagen: Vi forventer kun årpenge til prins Christian | Nyheder | DR

The Royal House now steps in the debate. A bit unusual. But perhaps because of how big the debate has been and to end the dicussion.

- It is not expected, and it has never been, that other than Prince Christian for his time must have apanage, says Lene Balleby.

- It is the practice that only the heirs to the throne, their spouses and widowed queens get apanage.


**

Then it of course lead people to ask why Joachim gets apanage?
If it is only expected that Prince Christian, as heir to the throne, gets apanage.
 
:previous: agree.
If Joachim gets an appanage, why not Isabella when of age. She would be in the same position as Joachim. (parent monarch and brother heir)

Def. Joachim's children should not. Besides them being "only" grandchildren, and then nephews/niece of the monarch. Joachim can more then provide for them with his sweet financial deal from the sale of his manor.
I think Joachim got one because at the time, him and Alexandra were a working couple representing the royal family. But things have changed.

and again. Alexandra once Felix turns 18 should not.
 
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Yes, I believe Alexandra was very popular during her marriage to Joachim, and continued to be so at their divorce.

What if, God forbid, Queen Margrethe dies in the next ten years though. Henrik is hardly likely to be active, and Joachim and Marie are off the list as far as royal duties go, with Royal duties tied to apanage? Are Christian, scarcely out of his teens and Isabella in her teens, to take over full time royal duties in those circumstances, in order to assist their parents? Seems hardly fair.

Yet, until Christian has at least completed university and some form of military service, there has to be some kind of forward planning. Would the Crown Prince couple be able to perform all duties on their own as King and Queen? What if they are out of the country and Christian is still under age? It's not just a question of money and appanage, is it?
 
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:previous: of course. Joachim and Marie hopefully would pick up more of the workload once Frederik is king and if Christian and siblings are still under age or barely in University.
I dont think his "salary" will be cut anytime soon.
But his kids (especially Nikolai and Felix who are older than Christian) should not expect to receive an appanage.

I guess we have to wait how things look 10-15 years from now, But maybe Isabella, being in the same position as Joachim, should receive one.

with Joachim's manor sale (lots of money and still being able to use the place when he wants), and his ex-wife still getting money, i think it just adds to the debate (it looks clearly the Joachim and family have gotten the better deal, for now)
 
To me Princess Benedikte and her family are the precedent for how things will play out with non-heirs. The situation with Joachim seems like a one-off.
 
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Two more articles about this
Danske prinser og prinsesser kan miste statsstøtten - Politik
Politikere vil bremse royal pengestrøm til børneflokken - Politiken.dk
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I do not think apanages will be given to Prince Joachim's children. But it might be that all 4 of Frederik's kids will. After-all, when Frederik is king, Christian crown prince, we can expect Isabella and the twins to help out somewhat.
Isabella, more than the twins, will be in the same position as Joachim.

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