The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #161  
Old 05-07-2018, 11:57 PM
Purrs's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flin View Post
I live in New Zealand, where QEII is technically our monarch. But in a very real way she plays no part in our lives, our parliment or our country. If there was a referendum about become a republic I would probably vote no. I kinda like having the queen as our monarch, even though it doesn't mean anything. However, if most people voted yes to the question and NZ become a republic, it wouldn't bother me at all as it would make more sense than to keep the monarchy.

As a way of government, I believe we have outgrown it.
As a Canadian, I feel we have long outgrown the monarchy and it's an anachronism in almost all commonwealth countries outside of Great Britain. I know our new citizens are often perplexed as to why the oath of allegiance is to the Queen, instead of the country of Canada. (The majority of Canadians are no longer of British descent.) At least our constitution was finally repatriated back to Canada by Pierre Trudeau in 1982. The commonwealth was constituted in the dying days of the British empire. We are all our own countries now and Canada could manage just as well without the monarchy.

(I would vote "yes" BTW. Not because I don't like QEII (I do) but I love my own country more.)
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 05-08-2018, 12:23 AM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrs View Post
As a Canadian, I feel we have long outgrown the monarchy and it's an anachronism in almost all commonwealth countries outside of Great Britain. I know our new citizens are often perplexed as to why the oath of allegiance is to the Queen, instead of the country of Canada. (The majority of Canadians are no longer of British descent.) At least our constitution was finally repatriated back to Canada by Pierre Trudeau in 1982. The commonwealth was constituted in the dying days of the British empire. We are all our countries now and Canada could manage just as well without the monarchy.

(I would vote "yes" BTW. Not because I don't like the QEII (I do) but I love my own country more.)
Yet you don't want a republic???? You want one archaic government form over another. You don't advocate for a president, you advocate for another figure head who has never been elected.

If the queen wasn't our monarch, who do you propose would nominate the Govenor general? They are not a figure head. They represent the queen. They are named by the queen and they serve for her.

If you love your country more, why do you want the queen's figure head in power???

I get people advocating for a president, I don't agree, but I get it. That would mean that we actually elect our own leader, and not have someone given to us. But I fail to see how one ceremonial head is any different then another ceremonial head is.

English descent still makes up the highest population of background in Canada (the top three being English/Irish/French). That hasn't changed. The commonwealth is not about our ancestors, but about the relationship (economically/socially/culturally) among those countries.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 05-08-2018, 12:41 AM
Sam Flin's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Christichurch, New Zealand
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrs View Post
As a Canadian, I feel we have long outgrown the monarchy and it's an anachronism in almost all commonwealth countries outside of Great Britain. I know our new citizens are often perplexed as to why the oath of allegiance is to the Queen, instead of the country of Canada. (The majority of Canadians are no longer of British descent.) At least our constitution was finally repatriated back to Canada by Pierre Trudeau in 1982. The commonwealth was constituted in the dying days of the British empire. We are all our own countries now and Canada could manage just as well without the monarchy.

(I would vote "yes" BTW. Not because I don't like QEII (I do) but I love my own country more.)
I totally understand that. I guess I don't really know what I would vote. I do find it quite ridiculous that we still recognise the British monarch as our head of state. It has become totally meaningless and unnecessary. If it came to a vote, my heart would probably say no to a republic, but my head would say yes.
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 05-08-2018, 12:48 AM
episcogal's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 261
I think a constitutional monarchy is an effective form of government. As a citizen of the USA, I am definitely a republican.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:19 AM
Sam Flin's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Christichurch, New Zealand
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
In my eyes there is a huge difference between having a monarch who is the resident of a completely different country and hardly visits the country he/she is also a monarch of, versus one that lives in the same country and spends most of his/her time towards that country. So yes, fully understand that from a New Zealand perspective the difference would be minimal. I still like the idea that the Windsor family members are assigned to different countries, so they will finally have a monarch who lives 'in-country' (yes, I know it is a fantasy but I still like the idea ).

Yes, that is it exactly. They do not reside here, therefore have no real influence or standing here. It would be completely different if we had our own royal family living in NZ.

And I totally love your little fantasy idea! The only problem is no one would want the York's. I'll put my hand up and say can we have the Wessex's? Afterall Edward did live in NZ for a while and tutored at Whanganui College. And I don't think we can go for any of the 'big guns'.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:55 AM
M. Payton's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by James VI View Post
I would call myself a Monarchist, not a Royalist. Why am i a Monarchist? Because i believe that Monarchy offers the most stable form of Government ( Greek Republic tottering ) provides a link between a Nation`s past and present ( Who was French President in 1952? ) and creates a bond between Sovereign and subjects, in time of National peril ( WWI & II ) Would i ever be happy living in a white-collar Republic, serving a here today and gone tomorrow, President?

I am 100% with you on the way you express yourself about being a monarchist. I live in a republic and it is embarrassing for many decades now, not one president can I look to for leadership or dignity.
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 05-08-2018, 06:31 AM
Jacknch's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,837
Just as a reminder, we have the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...-etc-7388.html thread to talk specifically about the monarchy and Canada. Thanks.
__________________
JACK
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 05-08-2018, 08:15 PM
Purrs's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 173
You don''t have to have a president who is the combined symbolic head and actual head of the state (like the USA) to have a republic.

You can have a parliamentary system of government without a monarch as the symbolic head of the country but someone else (regardless of what name you call them.)

There are other choices than a constitutional monarchy and a republic with a single leader (actual and symbolic.)

Some of the countries that have chosen this system of government (real leader & a symbolic leader who is not a monarch) are: Germany, Iceland, Ireland and the Czech republic. They all have parliaments with an actual leader and a symbolic leader who is NOT a monarch.

One of the reasons why I don't like the concept of a monarchy is it is by heredity and lifelong. Sometimes you get a monarch who does a splendid job (like Queen Elisabeth II and her father), other times you get a disaster (as Edward VIII would have been had he remained King, thank goodness he abdicated. How would you remove him if he had refused to abdicate? A coup d'etat? A revolution? There doesn't seem to be anyway to peacefully remove a monarch who is incapable or destructive to a country. If Edward VIII had remained King, the Nazis would probably have never been defeated and the world would look very different.) As well, the principle of inequality inherent in monarchies bothers me greatly. I reject the idea that someone is better than others due to their birth.
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 05-08-2018, 09:56 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 5,676
I don't think the question is about who is 'better'. Even in republics with a symbolic leader, it is not necessarily 'the best person' who is made head of state.

To me it is about responsibility. Typically the ones born for it wouldn't have chosen it. This means that they are not in form the job because of personal gain but from a very young age they are normally ingrained with the idea that their position brings about a lot of responsibilities (and many teenage prince(sse)s and some well into their twenties wrestle with this idea before they reconcile themselves with it; and start to see the opportunities it brings).
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 05-08-2018, 10:26 PM
Purrs's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
:
To me it is about responsibility. Typically the ones born for it wouldn't have chosen it. This means that they are not in form the job because of personal gain but from a very young age they are normally ingrained with the idea that their position brings about a lot of responsibilities (and many teenage prince(sse)s and some well into their twenties wrestle with this idea before they reconcile themselves with it; and start to see the opportunities it brings).
I think Queen Elizabeth II and her father are wonderful examples of this, especially since neither expected to become the monarch (especially her father.) I admire both of them for their sense of duty and commitment.

However, from everything I've understand, there's little evidence that her uncle would have ever ruled responsibly, despite growing up as the heir apparent and probably hearing this all of his life. He was 42 when he abdicated. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism for dealing with a monarch who is ill suited. (I realize it is often hard to remove politicians from office but it seems impossible to peacefully remove a monarch.) This is part of the reason why I answered "no" to the title of this thread "are you are a royalist?" (and obviously I'm not a monarchist either.)
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 05-10-2018, 11:20 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 6,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by episcogal View Post
I think a constitutional monarchy is an effective form of government. As a citizen of the USA, I am definitely a republican.
Episcogal, I agree that a constitutional monarchy is effective. It is good that a monarch's regulations are written and recorded in a constitution.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 05-10-2018, 11:48 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 5,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrs View Post
I think Queen Elizabeth II and her father are wonderful examples of this, especially since neither expected to become the monarch (especially her father.) I admire both of them for their sense of duty and commitment.

However, from everything I've understand, there's little evidence that her uncle would have ever ruled responsibly, despite growing up as the heir apparent and probably hearing this all of his life. He was 42 when he abdicated. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism for dealing with a monarch who is ill suited. (I realize it is often hard to remove politicians from office but it seems impossible to peacefully remove a monarch.) This is part of the reason why I answered "no" to the title of this thread "are you are a royalist?" (and obviously I'm not a monarchist either.)
I understand your reasoning although I would hope that there would be people of influence to talk heirs out of it if truly necessary. Typically a wedding (quite important for a heir) would be a moment in which to get rid of a (future) monarch if deemed necessary; and in those cases I would especially expect pressure from the family as turning into a republic would be a very likely option in such a case.

So there are some ways to deal with this. Sometimes other measures are taken, for example Astrid and her children were introduced in the lone of succession because of worries about Laurent.
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 05-11-2018, 06:55 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 9,686
I am a Monarchist and am firmly committed to our system of a Constitutional Monarchy. In a small country like NZ having a President would be both expensive and perhaps a little pretentious. So perhaps I am a royalist too


To those that think there is no way to remove an unsuitable Monarch I would differ. Edward thought he could present Wallis as a done deal. In the face of a governmental resignation he did the only thing he could. HE abdicated.

To a lesser degree the same thing happened to King Juan Carlos, scandal caused pressure to be exerted. Much the same as the King of the Belgians.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 05-11-2018, 07:12 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I am a Monarchist and am firmly committed to our system of a Constitutional Monarchy. In a small country like NZ having a President would be both expensive and perhaps a little pretentious. So perhaps I am a royalist too


To those that think there is no way to remove an unsuitable Monarch I would differ. Edward thought he could present Wallis as a done deal. In the face of a governmental resignation he did the only thing he could. HE abdicated.

To a lesser degree the same thing happened to King Juan Carlos, scandal caused pressure to be exerted. Much the same as the King of the Belgians.
On top of that, some constitutions , for example in the Netherlands, actually allow parliament to suspend the King from the exercise of the royal prerrogativa on the recommendation of the Council of Ministers and having heard the Council of State. The practical result of that suspension is the establishment of a regency.

In the UK, a vote in parliament is not even necessary. The Regency Act allows a regency to be set up solely on the recommendation of three out of the five following persons: the monarch’s consort, the Speaker of the House of Commons, the Lord Chancellor, the Lord Chief Justice, and the Master of the Rolls. Presumably, the recommendation must be supported by evidence , but the text of the act properly does not constrain the evidence to be medical only,.
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 12-03-2018, 09:54 AM
Lilyflo's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,171
I'm currently a monarchist here in the UK but that would change if we had a monarch who wasn't up to the role but not bad enough to get rid of. Both Charles & William seem OK to me so I don't envisage becoming a republican. I like our UK traditions & it wouldn't feel British to have a president instead but there are some people in the line of succession who are too pompous &/or arrogant to ever get my support. Fortunately, they're unlikely ever to be in that position.
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 12-03-2018, 01:49 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 134
I am not either monarchist nor republican. For me it is very same so long when a country is democratically ruled and respects human rights. And of course if country is otherwise sanely ruled. I follow some royal families but I am not royalist. Might be different thing if Finland would had become kingdom.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Membership of Royalist / Monarchist Organisations Royalist0007 Royal Chit Chat 14 04-28-2020 03:49 AM
A Newbie Royalist from Los Angeles MichelleQ2 Member Introductions 7 08-07-2011 01:13 PM
I am a Royalist from Canada osmond75 Member Introductions 2 05-18-2011 08:08 AM
Your First Impressions Of Royals Monalisa Royal Chit Chat 48 08-26-2010 08:25 PM




Popular Tags
abdication american anastasia baby names baptism bridal gown british royal family british royals canada carolin china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing coronavirus countess of snowdon cpr dna dresses dubai duchess of sussex duke of sussex edward vii facts fantasy movie george vi gradenigo history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs intro italian royal family japan jewellery king willem-alexander list of rulers mary: crown princess of denmark monarchy mountbatten names nepalese royal jewels northern ireland pless prince charles of luxembourg prince constantijn prince dimitri princess ariane princess catharina-amalia princess chulabhorn walailak princess eugenie queen elizabeth ii queen mathilde queen maxima random facts resusci anne royal court royal dress-ups royal jewels royal marriage royal re-enactments. royalty of taiwan royal wedding royal wedding gown serbian royal family snowdon thailand thai royal family tips uae customs united states united states of america wittelsbach


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:21 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×