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  #41  
Old 04-23-2020, 03:08 PM
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I agree with all of that.

Moreover, in truth the British monarch does not need to have a coronation. An enthronement ceremony would be a perfectly dignified alternative. I enjoyed watching that of HM The King of the Netherlands. Very regal & stately.

It's just that you can't have coronation services for monarchs who it is known will eventually abdicate as a matter of course. They are literally set aside for life during the anointing, hallowed in fact. It is not something that can be undone & it makes no sense to have more than one person living who has undergone the same process.
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  #42  
Old 04-23-2020, 03:52 PM
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In absolute agreement.

Royals are in their prime from around 40-65.
That's when they have the experience, the maturity, the energy and are still open to implementing reforms.
And it's also where they have the widest public appeal.
They are young enough to be relatable for the younger, and old enough to be relatable for the older.

Apart from that people live longer nowadays and in the future.
The current generation of young monarch and heirs can expect to live will into the 90.
Their children born in this millennium can expect to live past 100.

We may end up in the grotesque situation that the average age for heirs to sit on the throne is well past 70.
And that means we either have to reinvent the whole concept of the roles of the various royals or introduce a retirement age.
I.e. The King has retired, long live the King.

Just because there isn't a tradition for abdications or it has never been done before, it doesn't mean it can't be done.
Everything has to be done for the first time.
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  #43  
Old 04-23-2020, 03:54 PM
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Had there not been the Noos Scandal in Spain, King Juan Carlos would probably not have abdicated in 2014 and could possibly still be king or have reigned a little longer though his general popularity was on the wane.

His wife is still however undertaking duties post abdication on a reduced scale and enjoys high popularity.
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  #44  
Old 04-23-2020, 04:06 PM
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That's why I like the word 'emeritus/emerita' (as is used for Juan Carlos and Sofia in Spain and apparently a somewhat similar word is used in Japan as well) - a word that is also used for religious leaders 'retiring' and for (full) professors at university. Their responsibility doesn't end when they 'retire' (in Dutch: 'go with emeritate' in these specific case - all others retire) but it's no longer there 'day-to-day' job.
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  #45  
Old 04-23-2020, 04:36 PM
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Its quite common here in Ireland to have an archbishop emeritus, bishop emeritus after they reach the age of 75 ,the current Archbishop of Dublin has reached that milestone and has tendered his resignation to Vatican.
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  #46  
Old 04-23-2020, 05:08 PM
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Looks like I'm the die hard traditionalist here

The king is dead long live the king!
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  #47  
Old 04-23-2020, 06:26 PM
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From memory I an only think of two Swedish Monarchs who abdicated ,there possibly are more.

Christina, Queen of Sweden
Gustav IV Adolf of Sweden
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  #48  
Old 04-23-2020, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
From memory I an only think of two Swedish Monarchs who abdicated ,there possibly are more.

Christina, Queen of Sweden
Gustav IV Adolf of Sweden
The latter one didn't really abdicate volountarily.
But Queen Ulrika Eleonora abdicated in favour of her husband, Fredrik I.

I still think that Carl Gustaf will abdicate in a decade or so. Just a feeling. We'll see what happens.
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  #49  
Old 04-24-2020, 07:49 AM
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The latter one didn't really abdicate volountarily.
But Queen Ulrika Eleonora abdicated in favour of her husband, Fredrik I.
I've never quite understood the abdication of Queen Ulrika Eleonora in favour of her husband.

Was he in the Line of Succession to the Swedish throne?
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  #50  
Old 04-24-2020, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I still think that Carl Gustaf will abdicate in a decade or so. Just a feeling. We'll see what happens.

CG has stated multiple times that he is not going to abdicate. Of course he might change his mind but I doubt that. And there hardly is any reason to abdicate anyway. One reason why he is relucant do that probably is that CG and Silvia want give Victoria more time to be with her children what her wouldn't has if she would be queen. CG was already king when Victoria was born and it caused such thing that the king couldn't see his children so often as he might had wanted.
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  #51  
Old 04-24-2020, 02:50 PM
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That's interesting to hear about the King of Sweden. I wonder whether abdication is seen in such a negative light as it is in the UK.

In Scotland/England abdication has a negative history & not just because of Edward VIII of course. The other three abdicates (Richard II, Mary Stuart, James I/VII) were all forced off their thrones so abdication is associated with usurpation, revolt & revolution. In short it is linked with disorder & chaos or at the very least, in the case of James, with a not inconsiderable section of the population left feeling aggrieved & disloyal.

These three were also linked by the idea that there were not effective monarchs. So abdication also carries a taint of inferior kingship, the suggestion that only really inadequate monarchs abdicate.

Even in culture we have Shakespear's King Lear & the trauma & confusion that follows his abdication. Continuing with Shakespeare the Earl of Essex had watched a production of Richard ii before his ill fated revolt. Elizabeth was getting old some thought, maybe she should be "encouraged" to step aside for someone younger.

In everyday language we have the phrase "to abdicate one's responsibility". It is deserting or abandoning your obligations or commitments.

I wonder what other realms have such negative histories of, & cultural aversion to, abdication?
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  #52  
Old 04-25-2020, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post

I wonder what other realms have such negative histories of, & cultural aversion to, abdication?
There were no abdications in France until after the French Revolution.

In the 19th Century
Charles X : in August 1830
Louis Philippe: I in February 1848
Napoleon III : in September 1870
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  #53  
Old 04-25-2020, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
There were no abdications in France until after the French Revolution.

In the 19th Century
Charles X : in August 1830
Louis Philippe: I in February 1848
Napoleon III : in September 1870
And all of those non voluntary with the last following defeat in war (then exile) like Kaiser Wilhelm II.
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  #54  
Old 04-25-2020, 06:31 PM
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Indeed and Louis XVIII went down in history as the last French monarch to die while still reigning!
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