Order of the Garter (established 1348)


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
"Protocol constraints" is a useful term which may disguise unpleasant detail. Not so much a euphemism, but since protocol is an arcane and esoteric subject, further elaboration is neatly sidestepped. :)
Protocol can indeed a useful tool to sidestep potentially tricky situations. :)
I do agree though it is unlikely Gordon Brown becomes a Knight of the Order before Tony Blair (if the latter ever happens).
 
I don't believe that former PM's have received the OG whilst still politically active. Gordon Brown is still an MP and Tony Blair - as Middle East Envoy has a role in middle east politics.
 
In regards to Tony Blair, I do sincerely hope he never becomes Knight of the Order; however, he was a Prime Minister for 10 years - the only Labour leader to lead his party to three consecutive general election victories. Regardless of the unfortunate legacy he has left in certain areas, it would be a great snub to the Labour Party if both its last Prime Ministers were denied the honour.

I agree with you Artemisia. Moreover,regarding war, HM's PMs hardly have another option than to tow US Presidents' line. I think Tony Blair does deserve this. Even not inviting him and Brown to the Royal Wedding (and even the explanation given) also didnt impress me.. The BRF willingly appears 'right than centre' to me..
 
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I don't believe that former PM's have received the OG whilst still politically active. Gordon Brown is still an MP and Tony Blair - as Middle East Envoy has a role in middle east politics.
Not necessarily. Harold Wilson was made Knight of the Order of Garter in 1976. He had been Prime Minster from 1974 to 1976, and while he was awarded the honour shortly after leaving the office of PM, he was certainly politically active; among other things, he was MP for Huyton until 1983.
 
Guys, it's best to avoid directly quoting large slabs of Wiki in one hit as doing so is basically a cut and paste job.
Quoting small relevant sections generally suffices, along with the acknowledgement and a link to the relevant page or pages (where members can choose to read the finer detail).

thanks for everyone's understanding and cooperation,

Warren
Administrator
 
Does anyone know exactly when the vestments for the Order of the Garter (men) changed from white pantaloons/breeches to dark trousers? I can tell it happened during the reign of George VI from portraits and photos. I suspect it happened during the War because of shortages/privations. I just can't find any documentation about when the change occurred and why. Does anyone have any knowledge about this?
Thanks for any reply/info.
 
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I am not sure that it has officially changed. I think that when you see portraits of Geo VI and the recently discovered pictures of the Duke of Windsor (Edw VIII), they are wearing white knee-breeches as part of the most formal wearing of the complete costume - worn at coronations and the like. I am not sure if, even on Garter Day, Knights wore white breeches.

No doubt that, as styles have changed, so has the costume. It is pretty rare to see Prince Philip or Prince Charles wearing knee breeches at all - now mostly at state banquets or the Diplomatic Reception.

The knee Garter is not worn with uniform which tends to be the attire quite often worn by the garter's royal knights.

I would hazard a guess that we will very rarely - if ever - see Princes William or Harry in knee breeches. Neither of them have even worn a kilt since they were about 5!
 
well, it takes a bit of time to learn these things. Ya'll learn this stuff in public school? Remember, I am an American. Here, these identifying uniforms, I haven't seen, in Orders, but if the law enforcement and military are knowledgeable, and surely they must be, if they see them here they might have questions. In America someone is gonna call the nearest military base, local law and the pentagon if they see remotely England govt. uniform looking. And yeah we like England. I am ignorant, that is why I am sharing. There are a lot of ignorant people to England's orders, ranks and customs. Some people understand little of the masons here, alone, remember. I understand these Orders of knights and garters to be a special part of the crown. Why do I feel like somewhere someone ought to remind someone not to fraternize with the help, pay attention to what is being taught. Oh, anyway, I am going to try to grasp this history again. Seriously, my comment is my first initial response, I'll learn because I appreciate history. Excuse me.
 
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well, it takes a bit of time to learn these things. Ya'll learn this stuff in public school? Remember, I am an American. Here, these identifying uniforms, I haven't seen, in Orders, but if the law enforcement and military is knowledgeable, and surely they must be, if they see them here they might have questions. In America someone is gonna call the nearest military base, local law and the pentagon if they see remotely England govt. uniform looking. And yeah we like England. I am ignorant, that is why I am sharing. There are a lot of ignorant people to England's orders, ranks and customs. Some people understand little of the masons here, alone, remember. I understand these Orders of knights and garters to be a special part of the crown. Why do I feel like somewhere someone ought to remind someone not to fraternize with the help, pay attention to what is being taught. Oh, anyway, I am going to try to grasp this history again. Seriously, my comment is my first initial response, I'll learn because I appreciate history. Excuse me.

To look at the Knights all dressed up in their regalia (I think the upcoming investiture of any new Knights will be around the time of Ascot Week), there is no way ever they'd be mistaken for military uniforms. Its a chivalric order that goes quite a way back into British history. The only comparison I can possibly think of to compare it with in the US would perhaps be the Knights of Columbus or Elks or those types of organizations but still those won't come close to what the Order of the Garter is. Best thing to do is what I did when I first got here. Read through all the threads on a subject you want to know more about. From there you can build a pretty good profile of keywords to branch out even further on the internet.

Just wait till conversations pop up about the Opening of Parliament. There is so much pomp and pageantry and traditions for this that it amazed me to find out just how much it entails.

Pull up a comfy chair and a hot pot of tea and settle in for some really good learning experiences around here.
 
...oh ok thank you. I will be here learning.
 
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The most exclusive royal orders of knighthood based on the current number of members (including Royal Family and foreign members) are:



1. Order of the Golden Fleece (Spain), established in 1430: King Felipe VI plus 16 living knights (including 2 Spanish royals and 10 foreign royals).


2. Order of the Thistle (UK/Scotland), established in 1687: Queen Elizabeth II plus 19 living knights (including 4 British royals).


3. Order of the Garter (UK/England), established in 1348: Queen Elizabeth II plus 38 living knights (including 9 British royals and 8 foreign royals)
.


4. Order of the Elephant (Denmark), established 1693: Queen Margrethe II plus 65 living knights (including 8 Danish royals and 34 foreign royals).


5. Order of the Seraphim (Sweden), established 1748: King Carl XVI Gustaf plus 88 living knights (including 17 Swedish royals and 35 foreign royals).




Notes

  • Only single-class orders awarded by reigning monarchs were considered.
  • The figures above are from Wikipedia and may have a margin of error, especially for the orders of the Elephant and the Seraphim.
  • The generic term "knight" in the list above includes both male and female members.
 
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Ceremony of the Order of the Garter in 1948
 
The most exclusive royal orders of knighthood based on the current number of members (including Royal Family and foreign members) are:



1. Order of the Golden Fleece (Spain), established in 1430: King Felipe VI plus 16 living knights (including 2 Spanish royals and 10 foreign royals).


2. Order of the Thistle (UK/Scotland), established in 1687: Queen Elizabeth II plus 19 living knights (including 4 British royals).


3. Order of the Garter (UK/England), established in 1348: Queen Elizabeth II plus 38 living knights (including 9 British royals and 8 foreign royals).


With the induction of the Duchess of Cornwall and Sir Tony Blair and the demise of the Duke of Edinburgh, item 3 above is updated to


Order of the Garter (UK/England), established in 1348: Queen Elizabeth II plus 39 living knights (including 9 British royals and 8 foreign royals).
 
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