British Crown Jewels - Page 2

bluebess · #21 05-14-2006, 12:06 AM

CasiraghiTrio, The Queen is wearting the Kokoshnik Tiara.
The other family order QEII is wearing is that of her grandfather George V. I think only the sovereign has the right to create a family order and give to family members as their personal gift. That's what I recall reading in the Field book.:)

Warren · #22 07-10-2007, 03:53 AM

For a detailed description of the Coronation Regalia please see this link to the June 2007 Newsletter, and refer to posts 4 and 5.

ysbel · #23 07-10-2007, 08:55 AM

Not sure of where to post this but I found this unusual picture of an old English crown at the site of a Treasury of the Munich Residenz which contains the regalia of the old Bavarian monarchy.

Bavarian Palace Department | Munich Residenz | Treasury | Picture gallery

It is a Queen's crown and apparently is the oldest English crown in existence. It was recorded first in 1399 and was worn either by the queen of Edward III or Richard II.

The crown is made up of gold, enamel, sapphires, rubies, emeralds, diamonds, pearls. The precious stones are arranged in a floral vine pattern with the pearls and the sapphire and emerald leaves taking prominence. Quite a remarkable display of workmanship.

Henry IV who deposed Richard II had a daughter Blanche who married the Elector of Palantine and the crown became part of her dowry. Thus it was passed down generations in the Palatine branch of the Wittelsbach family, the rulers of Bavaria.

jcbcode99 · #24 09-03-2007, 12:36 PM

Where is Queen Mary's crown?

Warren · #25 09-04-2007, 04:51 AM

Which Queen Mary?
Among the Crown Jewels are the State Crown and Diadem (two separate items) of Mary of Modena, made for the coronation of King James II's consort in 1685.

Queen Mary's crown was made for the coronation in 1911. It is also part of the Crown Jewels, but with the Koh-i-noor replaced by a paste replica. Queen Mary wore her crown (with arches detached) to the 1937 coronation, as did Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother at the coronation of her daughter in 1953.

For pictures of replicas and more explanation of both Queen Marys' crowns, see here and scroll down the list to Other Crowns towards the bottom.

Elspeth · #26 09-04-2007, 01:00 PM

As to where the crown itself is, both crowns are in the Tower, if I remember right.

jcbcode99 · #27 09-04-2007, 01:58 PM

Thank you!
Now, about this English crown being in some other country. Do you think HM The Queen would want to get it back for her country? Is that something she would broker or would Parliament be in charge of something like that?

Warren · #28 09-05-2007, 03:28 AM

The English crown went to the Elector Palatine as part of Princess Blanche's dowry, so it has been Palatinate/Wittelsbach/Bavarian property since 1402. The dowry most likely formed part of the wedding contract and it's hard to imagine that anyone would request the return of something that was freely given over 600 years ago.

jcbcode99 · #29 09-05-2007, 10:45 AM

I read the article wrong--thought it ended up there in a "dubious" type of manner. If it was freely given then it is part of their heritage now.

PrinceOfCanada · #30 03-25-2008, 03:32 PM

A British friend of mine recently claimed to me that the Crown Jewels on display at the Tower are actually perfect replicas, and the real Crown Jewels are actually held either in the vaults of the Bank of England, or Buck House, or the official government bomb shelter at Cheltenham(? is that the right place?). According to him this is a well-known 'fact' in the UK.

Can anyone confirm or deny? I've only seen the Jewels once, and I was 10 years old at the time.

Prince of Chota · #31 03-25-2008, 03:42 PM

They looked pretty darn real to me.

The question is, what are the stones, then? It's pretty hard to replicate the correct reflection of light. For example, the crown of Louis XV in the Louvre has glass now instead of gems, and it's painfully obvious.

PrinceOfCanada · #32 03-25-2008, 05:43 PM

Well, honestly, I didn't much believe it. Would make sense of course to keep them hidden--the Tower isn't so impregnable that a dedicated team couldn't get the Jewels out. And that would be quite the blow to national pride.

Prince of Chota · #33 03-26-2008, 03:46 PM

I think, though, that rather than replace the real pieces with fakes, the government takes care to install the latest security features to ensure the safety of the crown jewels. The same is true for pieces like the Hope Diamond and Empress Marie-Louise's tiara, which are on display in the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC.

Lord Glencairn · #34 07-13-2008, 07:31 PM

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ownofindia.jpg

I recently tried to make enquiries concerning the legislation that apparently prevents the UK regalia from being removed from the UK... the reason supposedly why the Imperial Crown of India was created for the Delhi Durbar in 1911.

All usual sources refer to "ancient English law" - or other such vague terms. I have tried looking up the specific Act of Parliament on the Government's Statute Law Database (which is usually very reliable!) and have also emailed both Parliament's Legislation Archivist and the Curator at the Tower of London... who both oddly??? can not be specific (which I felt was really amazing - and frustrating!!)

Can anyone here please assist or make any sensible suggestions please... as Im doubting if there really is any active/current legislation.

Many thanks,
Glencairn

(PS - my 1st post!)

GillW · #35 07-15-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada

Well, honestly, I didn't much believe it. Would make sense of course to keep them hidden--the Tower isn't so impregnable that a dedicated team couldn't get the Jewels out. And that would be quite the blow to national pride.

....and when exactly was the last time you visited the Vault (literally) where the jewels are on permanent display? - with doors several feet thick and surrounded by absolute state of the art security, armed soldiers & guards....and more that we can't even see or detect. It would take not simply a "dedicated team" but more like a huge Army of well rehearsed crack troops. Getting anything out of the Jewel House at the Tower is about as likley as getting a ton of gold bars out of Fort Knox....

Also, they are so very obviously stunningly beautiful and priceless gems that any one seeing them would have no doubts at all of their genuine-ness (if there is such a word!!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince of Chota

I think, though, that rather than replace the real pieces with fakes, the government takes care to install the latest security features to ensure the safety of the crown jewels. The same is true for pieces like the Hope Diamond and Empress Marie-Louise's tiara, which are on display in the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC.

I've been to the Smithsonian & seen their breathtaking collection of jewels - but security there seems almost non-existent compared to the Tower of London (OK, the Museum's armed guards have very visible guns, but apart from that it seemed more like a sweetie shop than a secure environment)

I'm not detracting from the Smithsonian - I loved every minute of my visit and truly appreciated being able to not only see but even PHOTOGRAPH their awesome jewel collection (try getting a camera out in the Jewel House of the Tower of London and see what happens.....)

PrinceOfCanada · #36 07-15-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

I've been to the Smithsonian & seen their breathtaking collection of jewels - but security there seems almost non-existent compared to the Tower of London

The best security is invisible. If you can't see it, it's harder to evade.

Lord Glencairn · #37 08-07-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Glencairn

I recently tried to make enquiries concerning the legislation that apparently prevents the UK regalia from being removed from the UK... the reason supposedly why the Imperial Crown of India was created for the Delhi Durbar in 1911.

Anyone got any ideas please??? Ive even emailed Collins & Sons (The Crown Jeweller) and got no reply!!!! Surely with all this wealth of knowledge - there must be someone who can help????

PrinceOfCanada · #38 08-07-2008, 07:27 PM

You might do better to call the Tower of London or Buckingham Palace. I'm trying to dig through stuff online to find the actual law.

Actually, better: call Westminster. The archives there should be able to help.

qui mal y pense · #39 08-14-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio

In this pic (source: hola) is Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II wearing the miniatures of her parents? I am sure one is King George VI, but I'm not sure if the other is herself or the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother?
http://i3.tinypic.com/wk0mqf.jpg

I believe the Queen wears miniatures of her father and grandfather.

Thomas Parkman · #40 08-14-2008, 08:33 PM

If my memory serves me she is wearing Queen Alexandria's kokoshnik tiara, the family orders of her father George VI and her grandfather George V and the star and sash of the Order of the Garter. You cannot get more bedecked than that. The only thing that is about as grandiose and magnificent is the Queen of Denmark bedecked in tiara, jewels, etc and the Order of the Elephant, the oldest order of chivalry in Europe I believe. Cheers.