Danish Residences General Discussion

[FasterB]

No, you didn´t leave anything out, Muhler
You described it in a perfect way

 

[Muhler]

In Billed Bladet #47, 2011 a Kirsten Pedersen-Hansen ask whether M&F now only live at Amalienborg or do they still use Kancellihuset near Fredensborg? And if so, isn't that excessive?

Jon Bloch Skipper replies that it has always been the plan that M&F would use Kancellihuset during the summer and Amalienborg during winter and as far as he is aware that is still the case.
He adds that he doesn't find it excessive to have two homes, even if they are at present using only one, as they have been busy establishing themselves at Amalienborg and that they have two new children to deal with. Children who need stability in their everyday life rather than being shutteled from home to home all the time.
(Jon Bloch Skipper is here presumably also referring to the notion of M&F using Kancellihuset, not only as a summer home, which may become more difficult as M&F take on more responsibillities, but also as a weekend home and a summer cottage).

In context to the post about bunkers above, I can add that Tønder municipality a short while ago put a bunker up for sale. A bunker placed right next to Schackenborg. That bunker was supposed to be the municipal commando centre in the aftermath of a nuclear war.

 

[Grandduchess24]

I just wish I could visit and see them up close .

 

[NGalitzine]

What ever happened to the so called Yellow Palace that the future Queen Alexandra of Great Britain and the future Empress Marie of Russia grew up in. Did it continue on as a royal residence? Who were the last royal residents to occupy it? Did it continue on at the disposal of the monarch or has it now become an office building or government guest house?

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

The Yellow Palace or 'Det Gule Palæ' is owned by the state and is currently used for 'Hofmarskallatet', the Lord Chamberlain's office. If you have presents or letters for the Royal Family for birthdays or jubilees, you can deliver them in the Yellow Palace. The last royal occupants, I believe, were King Christian IX's youngest son, Prince Valdemar and his with Princess Marie, Prince Valdemar continued living there after his wife's death.

 

[Muhler]

Regan Vest = Regeringsanlæg vest = Government facillity West.

Build in 1963-69, this is where the Danish government and the DRF would seek shelter in case of war.
It is located in north-central Jutland i Rold Forest, 50-60 meters below ground.
In the grey period before a war, the top government ministers and the Regent Couple would be evacuated to this bunker.
In case of a conventional war, Zealand would be lost and it was hoped that the government and QMII would be able to fly out of Denmark via the nearby air base Karup - as East German divisions rolled up through Jutland a few days into the war.
In case a nuclear war, it was hoped, the bunker would survive (the Soviets knew perfectly well where it was) and it was hoped it would be possible to establish some sort government of the whole of what was left of Denmark afterwards.
The Danish system was very much like the British, in the sense that the country was divided into regions, each administrated from a bunker. In these bunkers were representatives of the government and parliaments, local politicians, military, rescue and civil defence leaders, as well as seleted experts. And most likely members of the DRF would also be housed in some of these bunkers.
The loal administrations would have practically totalitarian political control in the aftermath of a nuclear war.
When I was in the Home Guard in the late 1980's, one of our tasks was to protect and carry out the orders coming from the local regional bunker. (The Soviets again knew perfectly well where it was - under a school. - In fact the Communist Party had an office right across the street from our company HQ. They had even jokingly placed a camera in the window, directed at our entrance).

But back to Regan Vest. (There is an Regan East too, but more on that later).
The bunker has a area of about 5.500 square meters.
It was able to house 350 persons in 160 rooms.
It is contructed as two two-storey circles at the end of a long bend corridor 50-60 meters down in a layer of chalk.

The bunker is now long out of use and in fact it is now to be opened to the public as a Cold War museum.

However, there is another, still secret, bunker ready to be used just in case. Regan Øst = Regan East.
This bunker will house the government and the DRF in case....
War, terrorist attack, a nuclear meltdown, lethal pandemic etc. It has been put on a heightend state of alert, ready to recieve key personel twice since in was constructed.
After 9/11 when the situation worldwide was still insecure and during COP15, where it would shelter government leaders from some of the visiting countries.
In the case of a terrorist attack, where the situation is still unclear, like in Oslo or Mumbai, it is also a place where the DRF and the government would seek shelter.

One of the jobs of the adjutants is to ensure military and police assistance in evacuating and protecting members of the DRF in case something happens. (We can return to that procedure later if there is a wish for that).

That's the background. The nexy post will deal with the details of Regan Vest.


Here is a link to a 20 pic gallery of the interior of Regan Vest and a filmclip at the bottom: Se alle billederne: Her skulle Dronningen overleve en atomkrig - dr.dk/Nyheder/Kultur

Let's go through the pics:

#1 - The entrance to the bunker. Located next to a gravel road, not far from a prepared landing site for helicopters and in the middle of a forest.

#2 - Once inside, you go through a 500 meter long tunnel.

#3 - The bunker is build in a layer of chalk to ensure maximum protection and stabillity.

#4 - The main corridor is bend, to deflect the pressure wave of a nuclear blast. (My guess is several 1 or 2 megaton warheads. The missiles targeting Denmark were mostly located in Eastern Germany).

#5 - At the end of the corridor, at the entrance to the actual fascility is a 2.5 tonnes door.

#6 - QMII's apartment.

#7 - QMII's desk.

#8 - QMII's toilet - with ashtray.

#9 - The Prime Minister's desk.

#10 - The PM's bunk. The PM was NOT to share the bunk with his/her wife/husband. That was reserved for head of the department in Statsministeriet (the PM's office).

#11 - An overview of the two two-storey rings.
Top inner ring (top right) would house living quarters for the DRF, government facillities, the Ministry of Defence.
Lower inner ring (right bottom) would house the Foreign Ministry, Police medical facillities, communications, offices for ministers and a priest.
Top outer ring (top left) would house kitchen and mess, the commander's office and living quarters.
Lower outer ring (bottom left) would house sleeping quarters, depots and maintanaince personel.

#12 - A cut-away of the rings with the hollow "shock-dome" on top as seen in pic #3.

#13 - There are alltogether two kilometres of corridors in the bunker.

#14 - The mess hall.

#15 - Conference room for the State Council.

#16 - Sitting room for all.

#17 - The medical clinic.

#18 - For radio broadcasts.

#19 - Emergency exit. Up the ladders of a 60 meter shaft.

#20 - The main entrance. - Most passers-by seeing that would think: "Oh, that's just a depot in an old German bunker".

An overview of the bunker: reganvest.dk

- You will notice there is no mentioning of the possible whereabouts of any crown Prince/ss. Because he/she was not supposed to be there.

Two Google maps of first North Central Jutland: https://www.box.com/s/saj1jdrr33nafrmaujn1

And a closer look at Rold Forest, where the bunker is located: https://www.box.com/s/hjmyh8z9kgyppc9bcnsi

Regan Øst = Regeringsanlæg Øst = Regan East = Government facillity East.

Finished in 1978, this is the current place of refuge for the government and the Regent Couple.
The exact location is a secret.

It is however known that it is dug into a hill somewhere on Zealand.
The bunker is three stories high/deep and slightly smaller than the now disused Regan Vest.
From here the civillian and government administration of Denmark will take place.

Here is a picture of the entrance to Regan Øst: http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2012/11/13/144942.htm

There is also another secret bunker called NATO Bunker 7.
That is presumably placed somewhere in Jutland and in case of an emergency, this is where Mary and Frederik will go.
As will the deputy Prime Minister and the Defence Chief.
It is from here the military defence of Denmark will be controlled.
- In my time this bunker HQ was located near Air Base Karup in Jutland. I don't know where NATO Bunker 7 is located.

 

[Jacknch]

Thank you so much, Muhler, for posting this. It's fascinating to read and to see the images.
This has promted me to look into whether there is a similar set-up in the UK.
One thing I found out was that back in the 1960's, the Royal Yacht Britannia was to be used as a floating bunker by the Queen, Duke of Edinburgh and the Home Secretary in the event of a nuclear attack.
It was to sailed up to Scotland and, during the day, would hide and lurk in various remote North West sea lochs. At night, the yacht would then secretly move location and because of the mountainous region, enemy radar would be unable to locate it. The primeminister and other governmental people would be hidden in other locations in the UK seperate from the Queen, because only the Queen could appoint a prime minister and presumably, if the prime minister died in the attack, she would be able to appoint the Home Secretary.

'Floating bunker' plan to help Queen escape nuclear attack - Telegraph

Looking forward to hearing more about Regan West and East!

 

[polyesco]

very interesting. thank you Muhler.
pic # 2 of the Tunnel is amazing

 

[Muhler]

That's very odd, I don't seem to be able to edit my previous post.

I would have added this BT gallery from the bunker: Se billederne: Her er den hemmelige bunker i Rold Skov | www.bt.dk

Pic #5, because the corridors were so long, there were also cycles at disposal.

Pic #21, The water supply. - The air could also be recycled for a period if need be.

Pic #22, An analog telephone. - If I placed that in front of my children they probably wouldn't know how to use it....

Pic #31, The lounge, rest room, sitting room. Notice the "psycoligal images of trees and nature on the wall. - It actually makes it even more depressing I think!

Pic #33, QMII's toilet. Practically everybody else had to share communal toilets. - And sleep in shifts like submarine crews.

Pics #34 & 35, The Prime Minister's (Statsministerens) office.

Pic #41, Briefing room.

Pic #44, The main escape corridor.

 

[AnnaNotherThing]

Can someone answer a few questions for me:

What is the yearly schedule/rotation that members of the royal family use their royal residences?

And for what purpose are these particular residences used for? (for example, Trend during hunting season, Amalienborg/Copenhagen official duties, Graasten, summer extended family vacation, Dannebrog too is interesting etc)

Can someone do a full yearly schedule/map of location and the particular families that use the residences and what month they use them in?

Is this too much?

 

[Muhler]

No, because there isn't a fixed yearly schedule. Just traditions.

Amalienborg is of course the main residence and indeed office.

The Regent Couple move to Fredensborg during the summer months and over the years they go there earlier and earlier in the year and return to Amalienborg later and later. I guess they wouldn't mind living there permanently and who can blame them?

There is a tradition for the Regent Couple for going to Marselisborg during Easter, a few weeks during the summer and at Christmas. - But it isn't a must. And they go there because they like Marselisborg and to maintain the affilliation between the DRF and the city of Aarhus.
Frederik IX and Queen Ingrid didn't go to Marseliborg that often.

Gråsten is used for the yearly family gathering during the summer, partly because this was Queen Ingrid's home for many years and partly because there are many rooms there.
Queen Ingrid after becoming a widow was very much seen as their special royal by people living in Southern Jutland. Now that role has very much been transferred to Joachim and our Marie.

Trend is a place that appears to be very loved by M&F, while QMII & PH rarely used it. But Frederik IX and Queen Ingrid did go there fairly often.
And it appears M&F go there during the summer and the autumn holiday in week 42. - And also when there are private family events like birthdays.

Then of course there is Cayz, where the Regent Couple go every summer and sometime Joachim or Frederik go there as well.

Apart from that there is also Dannebrog, which the Regent Couple is very fond of! The yearly summer cruises are usually spilt in two, lasting a week or two each. - And from time to time M&F go on a cruise as well.

So you see all the residences are in use by the various members of the DRF, depending on tradition and preference.
If I should look say ten years into the future I can well imagine that Gråsten and Marselisborg will not be used that much.
However looking 30 years into the future, there may be no less than six DRF families (including M&F's children) around and by then all the residences may be occupied much more often. (I omit Joachim's children because by then they will likely be reduced to secondary royals with their own private lives and careers).

 

[nwinther]

I very much agree with your latter prediction - that the houses will likely see more use as the children "fan out".

Looking even further into the future there may be some difficulties. Frederik and Mary's children - at least the three youngest - will have to be treated rather equal (Christian, being the future king will be in a special position).

Depending on the lives they will lead, Isabella and the twins may chose a life far away from the public eye, or they may go the road of Joachim, and become an appendix of the Royal House somewhere in the countryside or similar.

And then it'll be a problem where to "place" the three younger children.

This haven't been an issue since the changeing of the constitution in 1954, where it was decided that only the decendants of Christian X could inherit the throne. This effectively limited the "real" royals into a very narrow group - of whom half remained childless (IIRC).

Now the generations soon begin to push at that boundary. While there's still plenty of houses, with the children of Mary and Frederik, we will likely need six households (Mary+Frederik, Joachim+Marie, Christian, Isabella, Vincent, Josephine).

Schackenborg is reserved for Joachim+Marie.

That leaves Amalienborg (that has four palaces, three of which is habitalbe IIRC), Gråsten, Fredensborg, Marseillesborg. And I suppose Sorgenfri.

That's a "full house" (although with a reserve of apartments at Amalienborg (at least).

Depending on what we would expect of the younger princes and princesses it may be necessary to purchase - or make available - further residences for future generations.

Of course, a solution á la Alexandra could be interrim or permanent for the more peripheral royals.

 

[AnnaNotherThing]

Thanks for answering my questions, Muhler...really appreciate it

And I also love your speculation-riddled reply to nwinter's post too...you know I love a bit of speculation and fortunetelling...BUT another question...do you really think, say the twins or even Athena will be ALLOWED to live overseas? They still heirs to the throne, albeit 3rd (Vincent), 4th (Josephine), and 9th, (Athena) but heirs all the same, I also realise that they will move further down the ladder as Christian has children but really?...I really can't see that happening...The (unspoken) expectation is that the royal stays put and the spouse comes in...And Denmark is their home, where they grew up and what they are familiar with...Chances are with the opportunity of 'free accommodation and expenses' there is not much incentive to be self-sufficient

My allocation would be this:

F&M (while Regents) Amalienborg
Christian (newly married) Fredensborg, like his parents before him
Isabella (urban chic) apartments at Amalienborg
Vincent and Josephine (sharing with big sister) bachelor/bachelorette pad, Amalienborg, aka Party HQ circa 2032

Nikolai (decides to restore and modernise) Marselislborg
Felix (as second son gets) Schackenborg
Henrik and Athena (share) Graasten, because it is near where they grew up in Schackenborg

 

[Muhler]

Oh, yes. No problem.
Benedikte married a German and settled in Germany. Her children don't live in DK.
Anne-Marie married a king, so no problem there either.

Interesting allocation of residencies.

However, it's very unlikely any of Joachim's children will take over and run any residence. They may very well live in a house on the estates but not in the palaces themselves.
It's an entirely different matter for Frederik's children, especially Christian. Since they are likely to have more official duties than Joachim's children (you never know, perhaps Athena turns out to have an exeptional talent for representation) it's also more likely and acceptable that they have a palace of their own.

If you look at Madeleine in Sweden, that's what I predict for some of the eight children. I.e. marrying and settleling abroad, only returning home for special occasions.

 

[AnnaNotherThing]

OK, cool...thanks Muhler...I actually think Fred and Joachim have put a real spanner in the works by being so (re)productive...I think Margrethe may have had the foresight to only have two kids and then those two kids only having two kids would make for easy of distribution (of assets to the 4 grandkids) but with the birthrate ballooning out to EIGHT...Maybe they are struggling to comprehend their (the 8 kids) future role and placeand where to accommodate them in the Danish royal family...

 

[Viv]

My allocation would be this:
F&M (while Regents) Amalienborg
Christian (newly married) Fredensborg, like his parents before him
Isabella (urban chic) apartments at Amalienborg
Vincent and Josephine (sharing with big sister) bachelor/bachelorette pad, Amalienborg, aka Party HQ circa 2032
Nikolai (decides to restore and modernise) Marselislborg
Felix (as second son gets) Schackenborg
Henrik and Athena (share) Graasten, because it is near where they grew up in Schackenborg

That's speculation as good as it gets !

IMO the big question is the future use of Graasten Palace! Before Schakenborg returned to DRF ownership and in the times of Queen Ingrid, Graasten was the pivotal place in the special link between the Danish Royal Family and the population of Southern Jutland, who were under German rule 1864-1920. The Southern Jutes are said to be the most loyal and royalistic of the Danes, and Graasten has been perceived as an advanced royal stronghold, if you like. Besides, it was the summer rally point for Queen Ingrid's grand children!
Queen Margrethe dediced to keep the pot on a slow burner by gathering the family for two weeks during summer. But what will happen when she is no more?
There's also the mothballed Sorgenfri Palace north of Copenhagen. The main building is empty, but one of HM's cousins (Count Christian) is living in one of the buildings on the grounds. The fact that the RF hang on to it indicates, that it could come in handy later on.

Like other Danish posters I tend to believe that the children of Prince Joachim will be relegated to minor royalty ranks, perhaps with the exception of Prince Nikolai, the first born of the lot and apparently a smart kid! And except for Christian, IMO most of them will find careers and partners abroad.

viv

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

I very much doubt that Graasten will go to anyone else than Frederik and Mary and their children, it's very much a "summer residence" kind of thing for the family (along with Fredensborg and Cayx), and also I think it is a place that means a lot to Frederik considering how close to Queen Ingrid he was.

Queen Margrethe also once said (in a book about Aarhus, I believe) that she hoped that Frederik would continue to use Marselisborg, but again, that doesn't mean that Joachim's family can't use it. I do think I've heard something about it only being inheritable to the heir of the throne though.

 

[NGalitzine]

Which of these residences are owned by the state and which are private property? If they are owned by the state how could QMII leave them to anyone?

 

[Muhler]

Marselisborg and Trend are private. The rest are owned by the state.

The palaces are for the DRF to use as they please, so it's basically up to the head of the family i.e. the monarch to work out how.
The reason I don't believe anyone but the children of the monarch/heir will be allowed to settle in the palaces themselves is firstly not to establish a sense of ownership for anyone but the monarch to any palace but also to avoid say Vincent being evicted some time in the future: "Sorry, Vincent, we are running low on palaces and Christian needs room for his two sets of twins. So you have to pack up and move out".
But just as importantly, because apart form the 200 years during the period of Absolutism, the Danish kings were constantly on the move, living in castles and palaces all over the realm and thereby maintaining an affilliation with the whole country instead of just living in Copenhagen and only come visiting to the other parts of the country for a few hours.
It may sound like a trivial matter but locally it means a lot!

It was seriously considered buying back Marselisborg by Aarhus municipality because the DRF was rarely there. Now the locals are very pleased and dare I say a bit proud that QMII is so fond of the place.

 

[Stefan]

Marselisborg and Trend are private. The rest are owned by the state.

.

Isn't Schacjkenborg also owned by Joachim?

 

[Muhler]

Isn't Schacjkenborg also owned by Joachim?

Yes, but Schackenborg is owned by Joachim and not the DRF. - I can only imagine the manor going to one of Frederik's children in the horrible eventuality that all Joachim's children die - or more likely none of them want to run Schackenborg.

 

[Marengo]

This thread is meant to discuss Danish royal residences, not to predict the future countries of residence of (royal) children. Those interested in discussing clairvoyance can go to this forum:
Main Forums - David Icke's Official Forums

 

[Flowerbed]

I don't remember which interview I read it in, I think it was the book published for the Jubilee, but Queen Margrethe very clearly stated that she intends to pass Graasten on to Frederik & Mary while she's still alive. So the only speculation regarding that residence is when Margrethe decides it's the right time to do it.

 

[FasterB]

Aren´t all of you forgetting that CP Frederik is getting Gråsten?

 

[Viv]

Aren´t all of you forgetting that CP Frederik is getting Gråsten?

You mean it's earmarked for his future use?? ! I plead guilty of ignorance, if that's been decided already! IIRC I read somewhere that Frederik will inherit Chateau de Cayx, which of course also serves as as a sort of back- up should Denmark ever become a republic.

It just leaves a rhetorical question: How many palaces are Fred and Mary going to take over and actually make use of, when their time comes?

viv

 

[FasterB]

You mean it's earmarked for his future use?? ! I plead guilty of ignorance, if that's been decided already! IIRC I read somewhere that Frederik will inherit Chateau de Cayx, which of course also serves as as a sort of back- up should Denmark ever become a republic.

viv

Of course It´s earmarked for his future use

It just leaves a rhetorical question: How many palaces are Fred and Mary going to take over and actually make use of, when their time comes?

Well, my guess is: Amalienborg, Fredensborg (whether it´s Kancellihuset or the main castle IDK), Marselisborg, Trend, Gråsten and Caïx.

 

[Muhler]

Here is a 23 pic gallery from the bunker REGAN East: Se de fantastiske billeder: Her er atombunkeren i Nordsjælland | www.bt.dk

Located in a forest in Northern Zealand this was were the Regent Couple where to go in case of war or something similar... Certainly after REGAN West was closed down.

It is about to be closed down. The new REGAN bunker is located somewhere in central Jutland.
In the early 90's an artist was brought in to decorate the bunker, presumably for psycological reasons but if I was cooped up in a bunker like this the sight of these strong colors would seriously drive me nuts! - I think it's over the top. But then again, who knows? Perhaps the psycologist had a point. The mere thought is actually pretty chilling.

By the way, the text in pic #10 reads: You can also regret, that you regretted.
The text in pic #18 reads: Time does not go, it comes.

I lived in Aarhus towards the end of the Cold War and there the bunker containing the Navy Operational Command is located. And I remember agreeing with a friend that the most sensible thing to do, should the baloon go up, would be to buy a case of beer and go sit as close to the fence as possible and wait...

 

[An Ard Ri]

It sure is bright in that bunker with all those colours!!!

 

[Muhler]

Let's go through the bunkers again, because it can be a bit confusing!

During the Cold War a large bunker was build in north central Jutland. That was called REGAN West. Here the Regent Couple were to go in case of an emergency, along with other key figures. Back then Frederik was just a child, so he would follow his parents.

Later on another bunker was build in Northern Zealand, called REGAN East. It was decided that the Regent Couple should go here, while Frederik (still unmarried) should go to another bunker located somewhere in central Jutland.
At the same time REGAN West was being shut down.

Now REGAN East is being shut down as well - but the bunker in central Jutland is still operational.
It is said to be located near the village of Finderup. Ironic, because Finderup is also the seat of the most well known assassination of a Danish King in history. - The Murder in Finderup Barn in 1286, where King Erik Klipping was murdered under circumstances that to this day is still hotly debated and very fascinating. But that's a story for another day.

And as a litte curiosum: Last year a large air raid shelter located very close to Schackenborg was put up for sale.

Underneat Christiansborg there is also a shelter, where some government ministers as well as MPs were to stay, protected mainly by a company from the Army Home Guard.

 

[polyesco]

Those bright colors are indeed interesting, are we sure prince Henrik wasnt involved in the design or the queen? : ) lol

I do like the trees around it, so pretty