Sussex Residences

[Pranter]

It doesn't make any sense for the Cambridges (when their title changes) to move to The Gloucester's apartments ...theirs are already done and to their liking.


LaRae

 

[sndral]

Emily was also on her podcast last week speaking with almost certainly that...

In my mind the only thing that is almost certain is that all of the reporters claiming the Sussex'es were getting Apt. 1 at KP have egg on their face so they are scrambling for ways to show they actually got it right but then the RF changed their minds.
I think the new claim that the Cambridges will acquire Apt. 1 at KP said it would be for their staff rather than for them to personally live in.
If the Gloucesters are staying put, might as well pencil Apt. 1 in for Prince George & his future wife.

 

[tommy100]

^^Exactly, all those who said KP Apartment 1 was going to H&M need a reason to explain why their initial reports were wrong. Admitting they got it wrong is one option but of course the media won't do that so better to explain it away with this story of W&K using it when Prince & Princess of Wales.

My understanding was the claim was that W&K would use Apartment 1 as staff offices, accommodation for staff and official entertaining rooms while keeping 1A as private for them. That of course overlooks the fact their staff already have offices and they already use Diana's old apartment on occasion to meet guests/visitors in.

Much more likely IMO Apartment 1 was never considered as the Gloucester's live there and no one wanted or thought to ask them to leave. After the work on W&K's Apartment 1A work was also found to be required on Apartment 1 which the media inaccurately reported as being for H&M rather than just regular upkeep and maintenance. I can believe the Gloucester's may have moved out to allow this work to be undertaken but I suspect they will move right back in once it is done.

 

[MichelleQ2]

Interesting if the Cambridges were to absorb Apt that would free up Apts 8 & 9 - and the 5 year plan could be for the Sussexes to reclaim Apts 8&9 down the road - they would have Frogmore. hmmm

 

[hel]

Interesting if the Cambridges were to absorb Apt that would free up Apts 8 & 9 - and the 5 year plan could be for the Sussexes to reclaim Apts 8&9 down the road - they would have Frogmore. hmmm

Honestly, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for the Cambridges (in another 10 years) to take over Apt 1 for staff once they're the Cornwalls/Waleses. Remember, Prince Charles has - according to his accounts - somewhere around 125 staff members. Kate and William probably won't have that many but they'll have more than they do now, and they won't all fit in 8&9.

However, as the Royal Foundation grows, it'll also need room, and I think it's more likely that it'll stay in 8&9. In 2017 it spent almost a million pounds on salaries/headcount; a rough calculation based on the average charity sector salary in London indicates they probably have somewhere north of 25 employees by this point.

Honestly, I think it's unlikely we'll see Harry and Meghan move into a large apartment in KP; as W&K step into the heir role, it's going to be as much a working palace as the St. James's complex and Buckingham.

 

[Countessmeout]

All of Charles staff doesn't work in London, or out if his offices. And I doubt York house, which houses Charles office is much larger then apt 8&9. There us also the possibility when Charles is king, William and Kate will take over his offices. There are also the extensive renovations being done at Kensington to increase office space.

I highly doubt they will turn a 21 room apartment into offices. Those apartments are one of the few large apartments around. There would also be a massive visit to turn them into offices.

It is more likely 8&9 will eventually serve for one couple. Either will and Kate will maintain it even as Prince of Wales. And Harry and Meghan will have their own smaller office, like Charles siblings, in London. Or will and Kate will move on to larger offices like York.

Harry and Meghan will likely eventually get a small apartment in Kensington or st James as a London base. Like his undies and aunt.

 

[Osipi]

I seem to remember that at the time the Cambridges were moving into Apt 1A and then Amner Hall, it was announced that these residences would serve that family until the time comes that William is King. So, I'm of the belief that where they are is where they will stay.

I don't give any kind of credence to reports that Harry and Meghan wanted "x" or were offered "y" but had to settle for Frogmore Cottage. I think its more logical to think that H&M wanted to live at Windsor and perhaps fell in love with the cottage even before the wedding. I also cannot picture Harry entertaining the thought of making the Gloucesters move out so he gets that apartment either. Harry probably remembers the Gloucesters living there for the entire time he was growing up at KP and I don't think its in Harry's nature to want to displace people.

I'm sure eventually H&M will have a larger London base than Nott Cott (especially with a growing family) and it'll all work out.

 

[tommy100]

Well once the Kents and Gloucester's "move on" there won't be a queue of royals needing homes at KP. Really it would just be the Cambridge children. It that way it makes sense for the Cambridges to take over more of KP as there won't be an obvious candidate to take over such a large apartment like Apartment 1 apart from George(if he is an adult by then)

 

[Iluvbertie]

They won't need a larger London base. Like Andrew, Edward and Anne they won't stay in London overnight all that often. They will return to Windsor which is where their children will be.

Nott Cott is as large, if not larger than the others apartments in London.

They won't be raising their children in London but at Windsor. There are great schools at Windsor - such as the ones Beatrice, Louise and James have attended. Eugenie started at Windsor but ended up boarding at Marlborough while the others were/are at day schools (Beatrice boarded for a few years in her primary years but for high school was a day pupil).

I suspect that the next generation of royal children won't be sent away to boarding schools - certainly not before high school if at all, and there is no need for them to be in London. It is only about 40 minutes from London and many people commute that far every day.

William is different as his country home is too far from London to commute on a regular basis but not for Harry.

Nott Cott is the perfect size for the second son who will be increasingly irrelevant as the years go by - just as Andrew is now (and Andrew has been described as a minor, irrelevant royal, since 1982 when he dropped to 3rd in the line of succession).

I know many Harry fans think he will be relevant even as the brother of a future King but as we can see Andrew isn't seen in that light today and he is the son of the present monarch and brother of the next monarch but the double standards are amazing - Harry will always be relevant as he will be the son of the next monarch and brother of the one after that and then the uncle of the one after that but Andrew who is one generation ahead is seen as irrelevant now and has been seen that way since William was born.

 

[Osipi]

Actually, I don't see that happening, tommy. If we look to the recent past, Charles as a newly married Prince of Wales had the one apartment at KP (8&9) and a country home at Highgrove.

I think William and Kate are happy with what they have. I also think that Harry and Meghan will be very happy with Frogmore Cottage and a London base.

It may happen as time passes that when the Kents and the Gloucesters move on, those apartments will be made available for lease for Beatrice and Eugenie and their families. With the Queen's permission, they could lease those apartments from the Crown Estates.

The possibilities are endless.......

 

[tommy100]

I should say the only way I see it happening is if, as has sometimes being reported, Charles stays at CH when King. In that case I definitely thing the Cambridge (as the Wales') would acquire new space - not for them personally but for their staff.

If, as iI fully expect, Charles moves to BP, then I think W&K will keep Apartment 1a and use office space in St James and Clarence House and possibly use St James' and Clarence House for official receptions, events etc.

 

[muriel]

I should say the only way I see it happening is if, as has sometimes being reported, Charles stays at CH when King. In that case I definitely thing the Cambridge (as the Wales') would acquire new space - not for them personally but for their staff.

If, as iI fully expect, Charles moves to BP, then I think W&K will keep Apartment 1a and use office space in St James and Clarence House and possibly use St James' and Clarence House for official receptions, events etc.

Due to the lengthy programme of renovations at BP, any potential move to BP for C&C is at least a decade away, irrespective of when Charles becomes King.

There is certainly an argument for W&C to remain at KP in the next reign, though I am unclear of what will come of CH in the period between C&C moving to BP (at least a decade away), and William becoming King. It is far to substantial and grand a residence to be suitable for Harry.

As regards KP, I think the next 10-15 years will probably see a reasonable amount of change, as the Gloucesters and the two Kent couples pass on. How the freed up real estate gets used remains to be seen.

 

[LauraS3514]

As regards KP, I think the next 10-15 years will probably see a reasonable amount of change, as the Gloucesters and the two Kent couples pass on. How the freed up real estate gets used remains to be seen.

The Kents may well be passing on in the next 10-15 years, but the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester are nearly the same age as Charles and Camilla: the Duke was born in 1944 (just four years older than Charles) and the Duchess in 1946.

 

[Tarlita]

Why couldn't Harry and Meghan use Harry's old apartment at St Jams's palace as overnight stays when in London for official events. Once they are living in Frogmore Cottage.
Both William and Harry had rooms at St James's Palace before they married.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

The Kents may well be passing on in the next 10-15 years, but the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester are nearly the same age as Charles and Camilla: the Duke was born in 1944 (just four years older than Charles) and the Duchess in 1946.

And Prince Michael is only 76- he could be around another 20 years.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Why couldn't Harry and Meghan use Harry's old apartment at St Jams's palace as overnight stays when in London for official events. Once they are living in Frogmore Cottage.
Both William and Harry had rooms at St James's Palace before they married.

Those rooms may have been already repurposed over the past 5 years.

 

[hel]

Due to the lengthy programme of renovations at BP, any potential move to BP for C&C is at least a decade away, irrespective of when Charles becomes King.

There is certainly an argument for W&C to remain at KP in the next reign, though I am unclear of what will come of CH in the period between C&C moving to BP (at least a decade away), and William becoming King. It is far to substantial and grand a residence to be suitable for Harry.

As regards KP, I think the next 10-15 years will probably see a reasonable amount of change, as the Gloucesters and the two Kent couples pass on. How the freed up real estate gets used remains to be seen.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's Charles' intention that CH is just kept in waiting for Camilla for the possibility that Charles, after his ascension, predeceases her.

First, if Charles predeceases her after their ascension, Camilla will be a widowed Queen Consort (yes, yes, Princess Consort, but legally speaking, she'll be the QC), and you can't just pack off a widowed QC to Ray Mill House. This isn't 1547.

Second, even beside the optics, a hypothetical widowed QC/PC Camilla will have work she wants to do and need a London base to do it from, much like the QM did. She's not going to drop all of those patronages, and she seems genuinely dedicated to her work with literacy and abuse victims. Also, I see her as continuing to host the Christmas party for ill children for as long as she's physically able.

Finally, I can see Charles seeing it as the house of his beloved Granny being the widow's residence of his beloved wife, given how much he loved/s both women.

Given that we've been told that W&K will stay at KP until such time as they may be called to serve as king and queen, and that we've been told Harry and Meghan will make their main home at Frogmore, I think it's most sensible to take things at face value and not expect to see H&M in a large apartment in London.

 

[Tarlita]

Those rooms may have been already repurposed over the past 5 years.

So true. It's just all speculation really.

 

[Curryong]

Harry and Meghan might not get a residence in London immediately or move from Nott Cott into a KP apartment.

Nevertheless, I think it was quite significant that when Frogmore Cottage was announced as the Sussexes' home and Richard Palmer asked KP officials repeatedly if the Cottage was to be their longterm home he constantly received the reply 'For the foreseeable future' and they refused to expand on that.

What is more Palmer was repeatedly told over a matter of years by people on Charles's staff that Clarence House was earmarked for Harry's future use. So, however insignificant and unimportant Harry may be regarded by some, Charles may have other ideas about his only other son and his future in the BRF, during his reign at least!

 

[muriel]

What is more Palmer was repeatedly told over a matter of years by people on Charles's staff that Clarence House was earmarked for Harry's future use. So, however insignificant and unimportant Harry may be regarded by some, Charles may have other ideas about his only other son and his future in the BRF, during his reign at least!

My sense is that H&M will continue to have the use of Nott Cott, and possibly at some stage in the future, a larger apartment at KP. In my view, CH is too grand a residence for H&M, but as you say, Charles may have other ideas.

 

[Tarlita]

Instead of Clarence House laying idol/empty for many years it would be an excellent London home for Harry and Meghan.
Surely thoughts of who was going to live where would have been worked out a very long time ago.

 

[muriel]

Instead of Clarence House laying idol/empty for many years it would be an excellent London home for Harry and Meghan.
Surely thoughts of who was going to live where would have been worked out a very long time ago.

In my opinion, it is too grand and significant a property for Harry. It has only been used by main line royals in the last century or so, by future monarchs and dowagers.

Harry has been given a place in Windsor, and that should suffice. In time, a larger flat at KP may follow, but that would be unusual and a break with the pattern that has been followed by the younger children of the last two monarchs.

 

[JR76]

It has only been used by main line royals in the last century or so, by future monarchs and dowagers.

Harry is main line and will become more so once his father ascends the throne. Clarence House was the London home of the Duke of Connaught until he died in 1942. Different times of course, but like Harry will be, he was the son and brother of kings.

 

[wyevale]

I doubt the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will ever live at Clarence House, and not merely because of the history of its past usage, but principally because it is a rather dour house , and not ideal for Children.
I doubt it would be attuned to the Duchess' 'American tastes', and being Grade 1 listed it cannot be gutted [to make it more 'modern'] in the way Frogmore Cottage seems likely to be.

 

[Curryong]

And what specifically 'American tastes' do you know that Meghan possesses in interior design?

 

[Osipi]

I don't believe that the status of the royal or the closeness to the monarch really has anything to do with where they set up residences. Like all of us, we choose to live where we feel attuned to. Being a British royal does have its drawbacks as there are certain requirements such as security that has to be taken into consideration.

Charles is a good example of this. Even though he is the heir apparent and The Prince of Wales along with being the Duke of Cornwall, he chose his own preference for a country home in Highgrove. He felt attuned to that place and had visions of what the gardens could look like and pursued a project called Duchy Originals. His involvement with Highgrove for the Duchy of Cornwall has turned out to be a good business investment.

So, I think its very possible that Harry and Meghan will continue to use Nottingham Cottage for as long as they possibly can simply because they're attuned to it. Its where they spent time during their courtship in relative peace and quiet. Meghan even included a flower that grows in their garden there in her wedding veil. The place has a special meaning for them. Just like the area around Windsor Castle does.

 

[muriel]

Harry is main line and will become more so once his father ascends the throne. Clarence House was the London home of the Duke of Connaught until he died in 1942. Different times of course, but like Harry will be, he was the son and brother of kings.

I don't believe that the status of the royal or the closeness to the monarch really has anything to do with where they set up residences. Like all of us, we choose to live where we feel attuned to. Being a British royal does have its drawbacks as there are certain requirements such as security that has to be taken into consideration.

Harry is an "main line" as Andrew currently is.

And whilst there is usually a degree of flexibility in what accommodation choices are made, CH is by far a much bigger house than what Harry will need, and could probably afford to run. It has vast office spaces, as well as entertaining rooms. Harry will be able to use the rooms at BP, SJP and KP for those purposes. He is also unlikely to have the staff that will need as much space as CH affords.

 

[Lilyflo]

I think Charles considers Harry to be a significant part of the working RF. I remember the balcony scene for the Queen's diamond jubilee in 2012, where the absence of the extended family was (according to all the commentators) an indication of what the future slimmed-down RF will look like in the next reign: Charles, his wife, his sons & their wives. He could have had Anne, Andrew & Edward up there but he chose not to & that was a sign of how he sees the core working family under his reign.

Harry is already a full-time working royal so the notion of Clarence House being his future London residence seems appropriate to me. Who else would live there if Charles moves to BP as expected? It's been reported (yes I know!) that William intends to keep KP as his base even after Charles becomes King. It's probably another 25 years before George has his own residence & by then, other properties will be available. By the time William is King and his children have grown up & become working royals, William might wish to reduce Harry's role but that's probably 30 years away.

So 'for the foreseeable future' Frogmore Cottage is ideal for Harry & his young family, away from 'the goldfish bowl' of KP with somewhere smaller as his London base (NottCott or similar) & these might be his permanent residences but I doubt it.

 

[muriel]

So, I think its very possible that Harry and Meghan will continue to use Nottingham Cottage for as long as they possibly can simply because they're attuned to it. Its where they spent time during their courtship in relative peace and quiet. Meghan even included a flower that grows in their garden there in her wedding veil. The place has a special meaning for them. Just like the area around Windsor Castle does.

The number of places with special meanings only grow in time. Lets not over cook this. Whilst KP may be where they spent time in their courtship, so was the home in Toronto that is no longer in use by them.

 

[muriel]

I think Charles considers Harry to be a significant part of the working RF. I remember the balcony scene for the Queen's diamond jubilee in 2012, where the absence of the extended family was (according to all the commentators) an indication of what the future slimmed-down RF will look like in the next reign: Charles, his wife, his sons & their wives. He could have had Anne, Andrew & Edward up there but he chose not to & that was a sign of how he sees the core working family under his reign.

Harry is already a full-time working royal so the notion of Clarence House being his future London residence seems appropriate to me.

Harry is a significant member of the royal family, as the son of and the brother of future monarchs. He has an important supporting role. That should not be underestimated. Perhaps it is the role that Margaret played, from the 1950s and till Charles and his siblings became full time royals.

That said that does not mean the RF needs to materially alter the housing model that has been run for the last few generations for the younger children of the monarch, from Margaret to Anne, Andrew and Edward. They either get give their principal home in the country with a pied-a-terre in London (Anne, Andrew, Edward) or they just get a substantial London home (Margaret) and no country home. In Harry's case, you can see that FC and NC will follow that same pattern. If, in time, Harry is to be provided a more substantial London home, my sense is that something at KP may be made available for him.

This model is, in part, because of the costs of acquiring some of these properties and their ongoing costs. More junior royals tend not to have the financial resources to fund multiple expensive homes.

Who else would live there if Charles moves to BP as expected? It's been reported (yes I know!) that William intends to keep KP as his base even after Charles becomes King.

Good question, one I had myself asked just yesterday on these forums, and one to which I have no immediate answer. Might it be a Dower house for Camilla? Might it become the offices of the Princes Trust? Perhaps more office space for the BRF? I don't know.