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  #861  
Old 01-12-2020, 06:54 PM
QueenMathilde's Avatar
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Um, no. They don't get to keep Frogmore.
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  #862  
Old 01-12-2020, 08:10 PM
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Based on what??? Even non working royals live in crown properties.

As long as the lease is being paid, there is no reason they couldn't keep it..



Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Theres a National Audit Office report on the royal residences owned by Crown Estate and leased to royals which gives a lot of detail

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/up...rty_leases.pdf

Andrew paid for £7.5million refurbishments and £1million premium for lease but pays no rent (the property was assessed as being rentable at £260,000 a year)

Edward and Sophie pay £95,000 a year with an agreement to contribute £0.58million to renovations (which was exceeded and in fact £1.38million was spent)
Edward and Sophie were smart. They actually rent out some of the out buildings on the property away from the house. It pays majority of their lease yearly. They pay less for it then the York girls on their tiny apartment.
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  #863  
Old 01-12-2020, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Based on what??? Even non working royals live in crown properties.

As long as the lease is being paid, there is no reason they couldn't keep it..





Edward and Sophie were smart. They actually rent out some of the out buildings on the property away from the house. It pays majority of their lease yearly. They pay less for it then the York girls on their tiny apartment.
Actually, this is what the Queen did also with her property at Amner Hall before it was decided on to be a residence for the Cambridge family. Up until that time, it was leased to the family of James Everett, owner of kitchen timber company Norfolk Oak.

I would imagine actually, that Harry and Meghan already have a signed lease in place with the Crown Estate. Its a business transaction like anyone would have when living in a residence they don't own outright.
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  #864  
Old 01-12-2020, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I would imagine actually, that Harry and Meghan already have a signed lease in place with the Crown Estate. Its a business transaction like anyone would have when living in a residence they don't own outright.
Serious question because I really don't know the answer...as a property belonging to the Crown Estate would there be any kind of public document or account that could be reviewed to see if this is actually the case? I ask because with all of the uproar of the last several days I'm very, very surprised that no one has yet looked up that information if it's available for viewing. I would assume that it is given how much information is known about the terms of the Wessex and York leases but maybe it's not?
  #865  
Old 01-12-2020, 08:52 PM
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I do know that some is known about the leases for Edward and Andrew but I would imagine that any business dealings between the Crown Estate and the people leasing their properties are confidential and not for public consumption.

A quick look and see did tell me that some information was acquired on some other dealings with the Crown Estate through the Freedom of Information Act. All Crown Estate properties are "owned" by the reigning monarch "in right of the Crown". Like the Royal Collection Trust, they're protected by the Crown and cannot be tampered with or sold by the person (monarch) themselves. This is where the difference lies with Balmoral and Sandringham and the Queen being able to lease out Amner Hall. The Queen physically owns those estates privately in her own right.

So... to make a long story short. Harry and Meghan are leasing Frogmore Cottage from the "Crown" with the permission of the monarch. As its own entity, the Crown Estate fully has the right to enact terms of a lease on any of their properties they hold (which I believe are quite vast). I would imagine their transactions on leases would remain private.
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  #866  
Old 01-12-2020, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
If they're not living in the house regularly it will go downhill unless they make sure it is kept up..and as its an old building that will taek a lot of money.. So I suppose Charles will have to be the one who pays.
Charles personally doesn't pay for much. The Duchy and his Trust pay for everything from his children to his bespoke suits.
  #867  
Old 01-12-2020, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Actually, this is what the Queen did also with her property at Amner Hall before it was decided on to be a residence for the Cambridge family. Up until that time, it was leased to the family of James Everett, owner of kitchen timber company Norfolk Oak.

I would imagine actually, that Harry and Meghan already have a signed lease in place with the Crown Estate. Its a business transaction like anyone would have when living in a residence they don't own outright.
There is no question there is a lease agreement in place of some kind. That’s how any crown estate is handled. Only question is the conditions. Do they have a long term lease like Edward and Andrew. Or do they have a year to year or such like the York girls on their St James apartment likely did. I assume they likely had a few year lease as I doubt when they moved in they originally planned to leave it so quickly.
  #868  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Charles personally doesn't pay for much. The Duchy and his Trust pay for everything from his children to his bespoke suits.
Actually outside of the private income Charles gets from the the profits the Duchy of Cornwall earns, no other funds trickle into Charles' pockets to be used for his personal expenditures. Its all itemized and out there available for perusing should one be so inclined.
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  #869  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Actually outside of the private income Charles gets from the the profits the Duchy of Cornwall earns, no other funds trickle into Charles' pockets to be used for his personal expenditures. Its all itemized and out there available for perusing should one be so inclined.
Yes, but these expenses are paid by the Duchy and/or Prince's Trust. Itemized, of course.

When Charles gets on his po'boy horse and publicly declares he only owns one car, an Aston Martin sports car, you have to wonder about his respect for the British people and how he doesn't realize they see him in vintage Rolls Royce autos constantly and do not believe him.
  #870  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:49 PM
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Could it be that the RF feels that a member of the family could squash a Republican movement in Canada better than any Governor General could? Meghan May be the first member of the family to agree to happily live in Canada for lengths of time.

They would still be working for the firm, but in possible more welcoming environment.
  #871  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Yes, but these expenses are paid by the Duchy and/or Prince's Trust. Itemized, of course.

When Charles gets on his po'boy horse and publicly declares he only owns one car, an Aston Martin sports car, you have to wonder about his respect for the British people and how he doesn't realize they see him in vintage Rolls Royce autos constantly and do not believe him.
No. Duchy of Cornwall is its own entity as is the Prince's Trust. Many people believe that Charles owns Highgrove. He doesn't. The Duchy of Cornwall holds the title which means it'll pass to the next Duke of Cornwall (William).

The British Royals actually *own* very little property in their own right. The Queen owns Balmoral and Sandringham and Anne owns Gatcombe Park. That's about it.

Charles' private income is based on profits made by the Duchy of Cornwall which has been in place since 1337 and is one of two remaining royal duchies (the other being the Duchy of Lancaster which provides the Queen's personal income known as the Privy Purse). Charles pays income tax on this income from the Duchy of Cornwall. The Prince's Trust is the same way and is maintained and run solely for the endeavors of that organization. Charles does not receive any funds from it at all. In fact, its through his work that the Prince's Trust has grown and been more successful. He started it all with his pension when he left the Navy back in the 70s if I remember correctly.

Think of it as being a senior citizen in the United States and receiving Social Security. Its our private income provided by the Department of the Treasury. We don't expect the Department of the Treasury to fund and pay for anything outside of our social security checks.

OH... forgot to add that I believe its true that Charles only *owns* one car. The fleet of cars that the royal family has for transportation along with the train and the helicopter are all paid for through the Sovereign Grant and is itemized therein. The thread Royal Wealth and Finances is a really good read and an eye opener about this stuff.
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  #872  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:36 PM
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Yes his funding comes from the Duchy. But that’s what it’s intended for. The duchy was created and grown as an income for the heir.

And just like any other income, Charles has the right to decide how he spends it. The percent of income he pockets and doesn’t go back into the duchy. If he chooses to use the money to support Harry and Meghan that is his right. Just as we choose how to use our own income.

Charles could have bought High Grove with his income. Instead he had the Duchy but it. Meaning it and the income it generates will continue to support future heirs to the throne. Also protects it from estate taxes.
  #873  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
If they're not living in the house regularly it will go downhill unless they make sure it is kept up..and as its an old building that will taek a lot of money.. So I suppose Charles will have to be the one who pays.
I'm not sure how much time the Queen Mother spent at the Castle of Mey or at Birkhall. Presumably they were maintained to an acceptable standard & somebody paid for that.

Princess Margaret had a property on Mustique to maintain (& staff). She was only there for part of the year.

Prince Andrew has a huge chalet in the Alps & that must require staffing & maintenance.
  #874  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:45 AM
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Margaret was property owner of the estate in Mustique. The Queen Mother bought the Castle of Mey outright and Birkhall is on the Queen's privately owned estate of Balmoral. The difference with Frogmore Cottage is that whether Harry and Meghan live there full time, part time or even as an occasional weekend retreat, maintenance of the property falls to the Crown Estates that holds title to the property "in right of the Crown".

Just using logic.
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  #875  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Margaret was property owner of the estate in Mustique. The Queen Mother bought the Castle of Mey outright and Birkhall is on the Queen's privately owned estate of Balmoral. The difference with Frogmore Cottage is that whether Harry and Meghan live there full time, part time or even as an occasional weekend retreat, maintenance of the property falls to the Crown Estates that holds title to the property "in right of the Crown".

Just using logic.
Good point. So if the maintenance of the property is the responsibility of the Crown Estates, presumable that happens whether H&M are in residence or not eg checking roof tiles, guttering, drains, paintwork etc. Providing someone keeps it aired when they're away, how could it fall into disrepair?
  #876  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:25 AM
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Yeps. Its the same thing with Windsor Castle during the times that the Queen isn't in residence.
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  #877  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:58 PM
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Leaving a perfectly habitable house empty on the off chance that its one time occupants might return on occasion for an indeterminate period of time seems wholly unsatisfactory.

This situation could continue for the next sixty years or so.

I do understand that not any old tom dick or harry can live on the Windsor estate but Fort Belvedere has been let commercially although I do realise that the fort is much further away from the castle.

Homeless people can't obviously live in Frogmore cottage but we have a major housing crises in this country. The optics of an immensely rich couple living in a (no doubt) sizeable house in North America whilst retaining a not insubstantial occasional residence in this country are not good.
  #878  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Leaving a perfectly habitable house empty on the off chance that its one time occupants might return on occasion for an indeterminate period of time seems wholly unsatisfactory.

This situation could continue for the next sixty years or so.

I do understand that not any old tom dick or harry can live on the Windsor estate but Fort Belvedere has been let commercially although I do realise that the fort is much further away from the castle.

Homeless people can't obviously live in Frogmore cottage but we have a major housing crises in this country. The optics of an immensely rich couple living in a (no doubt) sizeable house in North America whilst retaining a not insubstantial occasional residence in this country are not good.

Better start with the Queen...the same optics apply to her estates that she only uses a few weeks a year.



LaRae
  #879  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Better start with the Queen...the same optics apply to her estates that she only uses a few weeks a year.



LaRae
Both of which are in the United Kingdom.

In addition both Balmoral & Sandringham are at the heart of historic estates that bring great economic benefits to their respective localities. Moreover, there is political sense in living in Scotland for a good two months of the year.

I don't think any of that rationale applies to Frogmore cottage.
  #880  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Leaving a perfectly habitable house empty on the off chance that its one time occupants might return on occasion for an indeterminate period of time seems wholly unsatisfactory.

They’re paying commercial rent on the property, it is there’s to do with as they wish. Effectively a holiday home, the same as millions of other people worldwide have.
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