Sussex Residences

[Pranter]

Exterior changes to Grade II listed properties are tricky - they are listed for a REASON [that they are either of 'historical or architectural interest']..
Nobody [not even Royals] can ignore that, and rightly so.

That said, restitution can be made 'to a previously existing historical state', provided photographs of that state exist.

So the restitution of the single storey front extension [with the louvred windows] would be possible, and that is a LOT prettier than the existing entrance..

Saw on Twitter that one part of the submitted (and approved) plans are to have some sort of glass extension and remove some of the doors and add windows etc. No idea where specifically.


LaRae

^
I bloody well hope they RESPECT the nature of the building, they have the honour to occupy.
They are merely temporary 'tenants', and our historical fabric is of infinitely greater importance than their stylistic whims..
If they want 'modern they should go elsewhere and build anew !

Seeing has how I am NOT a fan of modern style or minimalist design ...I think it would be a crime to take a historic building like that and make it into something it's not.

I've seen enough renos on old and historic houses to know you can modernize the interior while keeping the integrity. Of course from how it sounds the interior has been butchered previously ..at least some period elements totally removed.



LaRae

 

[Countessmeout]

According to Richard palmer the Frogmore Cottage will be their main residence for the "foreseeable future" and if it is true it will only have 5 bedrooms that seems a bit small for the Sussexes growing family.

I wonder if this is just a move to hold them over until something becomes available in London.

I don't see why five bedrooms would be too small. That is thevsanevanount if bedrooms as Kate and William who have three kids. Bedroom count doesn't count staff rooms like a nanny.

They would not done all this money as a hold over. They would either continue renting in the Cotswolds or something larger would be found in first place.

 

[Osipi]

Just an odd idea here. Looking at some of the overviews of Frogmore Cottage, it seems to have another building quite close to it. If so, couldn't that, at some time in the future, be renovated to be sort of a guest house/apartment for a visiting grandmother or friends? Or for security?

As building renovations and restoration plans have to be filed and approved, I seriously doubt that anything the Sussexes would do to Frogmore Cottage will go against those guidelines already in place for the residence. They're not about to paint the exterior a neon purple with electric blue trim or anything.

 

[Countessmeout]

Just an odd idea here. Looking at some of the overviews of Frogmore Cottage, it seems to have another building quite close to it. If so, couldn't that, at some time in the future, be renovated to be sort of a guest house/apartment for a visiting grandmother or friends? Or for security?

As building renovations and restoration plans have to be filed and approved, I seriously doubt that anything the Sussexes would do to Frogmore Cottage will go against those guidelines already in place for the residence. They're not about to paint the exterior a neon purple with electric blue trim or anything.

It could be. Security doesn't live in house anyways.

But they don't likely need a guest house. Even if they have two kids, that leaves two guest rooms in the main house. If Kate and wills, can make do with five bedrooms, I am sure Harry send Meghan can.

As for the renovations they will be even more caution about resorting historical integrity then others. A,one other things, house is owned by crown estate not them. A lot you can do to modernize interior without losing integrity.

 

[loonytick]

Well, if Charles has any say the reno will surely play it safe...we all know how he feels about modern vs. historic architecture. And on a macro level he holds the Sussex purse strings.

That said, the current collection of royal residences contains a variety of historic styles because for centuries royals felt free to build and renovate in the vernacular of their time. It seems a little strange that everything, even smaller structures with less of a clearly important history, should now be kept in amber to the point that no generations past Victoria or Edward’s leave a strong architectural mark for future Britons to enjoy as a glimpse at this time.

 

[Dman]

We don’t have any pics of the current state of the cottage while under construction. Since we’re looking at the old pics of the cottage, tons of work is needed for that place. I hope whatever they do, their new home will help bring many years of joy to them.

 

[Countessmeout]

Well, if Charles has any say the reno will surely play it safe...we all know how he feels about modern vs. historic architecture. And on a macro level he holds the Sussex purse strings.

That said, the current collection of royal residences contains a variety of historic styles because for centuries royals felt free to build and renovate in the vernacular of their time. It seems a little strange that everything, even smaller structures with less of a clearly important history, should now be kept in amber to the point that no generations past Victoria or Edward’s leave a strong architectural mark for future Britons to enjoy as a glimpse at this time.

There is a mark of the time. New builds. There is no reason to reconstruct old buildings into modern buildings to leave their touch. The U.K. is a lively blend of many different design styles for centuries long before Victoria and now periods after.

 

[wyevale]

strong architectural mark for future Britons to enjoy as a glimpse at this time.

I refer you to the now [mercifully] demolished 'Southyork' as an indication of how modern Royal architectural 'taste' might be, and wonder how future generations may judge it..

 

[Kataryn]

Seeing has how I am NOT a fan of modern style or minimalist design ...I think it would be a crime to take a historic building like that and make it into something it's not.

I've seen enough renos on old and historic houses to know you can modernize the interior while keeping the integrity. Of course from how it sounds the interior has been butchered previously ..at least some period elements totally removed.



LaRae

Look, we are talking about the son of Prince Charles.... Doesn't that says enough about respecting historic buildings?

 

[Osipi]

I can see Charles getting his little fingerprints all over this restoration. Its something he loves and something he's quite knowledgeable about. The man has good tastes and I'm sure Harry and Meghan will value his input and suggestions. I would be surprised either if Charles is helping out financially with the interior decorating as he helped Will and Kate with the interior of Apt. 1A at KP.

I'm sure it'll all turn out beautifully.

 

[cepe]

The building is Grade II listed which means that generally people can change the inside of the house. Changes to the back of the house can be made but usually should be "sympathetic" to the style of architecture.

Planners are more strict about the front of the building and usually do not want radical change - specific plans would need to be submitted. There are no absolute restrictions on building extensions but again, they would want them to be "in keeping" with the property.

This is my experience having lived in Grade II listed buildings.

 

[soapstar]

I've deleted a number of off-topic posts.

Just a reminder, this thread is not about Doria and whether she can apply for a visa, nor is it about the media/journalists. Let's stick to the topic.

Posts discussing the relationships between members of the royal family, have been moved here.

 

[Dman]

According to Simon Perry and Stephanie Petit of People Magazine, the cottage is divided up into five units for staff. So some major work have to be put in to make it a whole home. I think that’s why the very few pictures everyone has found look kinda confusing.

 

[CotedeTexas]

Is this the front of Frogmore Cottage?

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...UKEwiIl_LBlPLeAhVI_oMKHbLaBNgQoiowEnoECAUQBg#

It seems to line up with this older photo taken before the change to the front entry way. It seems a two-story front was added in place of the "portico" entrance. https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-adE3rIlu...rybYVn4wRpOE0w8tId1_8gCLcBGAs/s1600/fgbb1.jpg

This is the FRONT Of the house. The other photos are of the back.

The front

The back I

The back II

 

[DuchessMia]

Maybe I’ve watched too much Property Brothers, but wouldn’t a reno like this take 3-4 months, allowing them to move in around the time the baby is born?

 

[TLLK]

It will depend upon what the walls, ceilings and floors will reveal once the demolition work begins. Afterwards comes the glazing, electrical, plumbing, etc...which will need to occur during a UK winter. Also this is a historic building which will require the couple to work within the guidelines and restrictions that will limit what they'll be permitted to do with the building. I'm thinking that 3-4 months is too short of a time frame, but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[CotedeTexas]

ok. this newer photo of the house shows a quite different feeling. The house looks beautiful. It has such a country like feel from this angle. The back overlooks the Indian kiosk with all the Cedars of Lebanon which are so majestic. The house doesn't look like a pile here, it looks very nice and somewhere a family would be happy. Plus, Harry will be close to his two uncles, grandmother. I can't wait for the restoration and hopefully we will get a glimpse or two like we got to see of William's apt. Still waiting for Amner Photos though.

Great photo, no?

Photo

 

[royal rob]

Maybe I’ve watched too much Property Brothers, but wouldn’t a reno like this take 3-4 months, allowing them to move in around the time the baby is born?

Real life as opposed to tv shows would take a year but considering it’s a royal residence the tradesmen will be working overtime. It’s still a huge home and might be done in sections

 

[Countessmeout]

Brand new houses are built in less then a year unless delayed by money or such.

Some will depend on how recently it was converted into five flats. The plumbing, electricity and such would have been done then. Yes there will be major renovations done, converting back from five flats takes time, Bitbthe concern of things hiding behind walls will be less then with older properties that have not been updated in decades or more,

 

[Pranter]

I could see it taking at least 6 months...they have to go in and do a lot of reno.....plus they probably had to finish up another job first, not likely they were sitting around waiting for BP to call them with a job.


LaRae

 

[JR76]

I could see it taking at least 6 months...they have to go in and do a lot of reno.....plus they probably had to finish up another job first, not likely they were sitting around waiting for BP to call them with a job.


LaRae

I remember watching Beenys restoration nightmare when she and her husband restored the gigantic Rise Hall. Even though they're both accomplished builders they went through hell to get the hall back in shape. There's always surprises with old houses.

 

[Cathy-PA USA]

Frogmore Cottage

Is this the front of Frogmore Cottage?

I believe this is an older view of the back from a different perspective.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...UKEwiIl_LBlPLeAhVI_oMKHbLaBNgQoiowEnoECAUQBg#

None of these are Frogmore Cottage, som of Fr. House.

It seems to line up with this older photo taken before the change to the front entry way. It seems a two-story front was added in place of the "portico" entrance. https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-adE3rIlu...rybYVn4wRpOE0w8tId1_8gCLcBGAs/s1600/fgbb1.jpg

This is the front showing the circular drive.
https://pin.it/hhvelksdlqbkuk - see the comment for the source.

Btw, this is a "Georgian manor style" house. I'm gonna have to study up on that to know what that means. My, i did enjoy and have a delighted chuckle over your choice words about needing a more welcoming entrance. And I agree about that. Frogmore House too, seems bulit right at ground level, it's weird to me.

 

[MARG]

^
I bloody well hope they RESPECT the nature of the building, they have the honour to occupy.
They are merely temporary 'tenants', and our historical fabric is of infinitely greater importance than their stylistic whims..
If they want 'modern they should go elsewhere and build anew !

I'm 'bound to say' -spoken like someone with NO respect or sensitivity to what came before an individuals TEMPORARY tenure of a historic building.

If they muck it up I GUARANTEE The Duchess will be blamed...

It was quoted somewhere earlier in this thread about the first planning permission that the original floor plan was virtually indistinguishable. The way old houses, even listed houses, were chopped about inside is nothing short of criminal. I think we can expect an internal restoration rather than just trying to put lipstick on a pig in this case.

I think they are going to have trouble keeping Pa out from under their feet as he "just checks" the place every time he is anywhere in the vicinity of Windsor. Thinking of the almost miraculous resurrection of Dumphries House and the artisans that worked on it and the training that now goes on there I doubt they will have anything but the best.

As to the query about Frogmore House seeming to be built right at ground level, it was originally built as an elaborate, exorbitantly expensive pavilion for the ladies to entertain themselves. One with artistic talent even painted murals on the walls upstairs!

 

[MaiaMia_53]

That's an interesting detail. Where did you read about that?

I love the idea that H&M have not been in the Cotswolds as wittered about in the DF et al. The have never been able to nail their location down for all their talk of leases etc. I have no doubt that they have utilised the Soho amenities on occasion but for all we know they may have been spending time at Windsor either at one of the cottages, with their family there or even in the Castle itself.

It makes sense for them to have spent as much time as possible at Windsor to see if they could actually adapt to country living. No point in planning to live there if the relative quiet drives you crazy and bores you to tears. It would also have enabled them to talk over the possibilities with an architect and ask for opinions from HM, Prince Philip or input from Prince Charles who knows more than a little about restoration yet creating a living home space instead of just a showpiece.

Yes, it does make sense that a lot of their time away from London was possibly spent at Windsor. But I think there's also reason to believe they've spent time in the Cotswolds too, perhaps at Soho Farmhouse, or even with friends. We don't know, and nothing has or probably will ever be confirmed in regard to their private down time at various locales. For example, we still don't know where they went for their honeymoon. If they have rented in the Cotswolds, they purposely do not want the location to be ferreted out. It will be interesting though if the rented property gossip is not true -- but we are unlikely to find out.

As I am reminded, it was quite a revelation during their engagement interview exactly one year ago, that Meghan and Harry spent five days together in Africa in 2016, which meant that their August 2017 visit to the continent was not their first rendezvous in Botswana. There's a huge amount we do not know about their relationship, and that M&H aren't planning to share.

 

[Rhea6]

Harry and Meghan seem to want a simpler life for themselves . Coz if they wanted to be in the public eye all the time , they could easily have stayed out at Kensington palace as that is where the tourists flock to all the time .

Also Frogmore cottage seems much more smaller than compared to Prince Andrew s residence - Royal lodge or even Prince edwards place - Bagshot park .

So it clearly proves that Harry and Meghan are not looking at opulent places for themselves .

 

[Mirabel]

By the current pictures, that Cottage needs work to change it from an work space to a family home.

Yes, wouldn't it have been simpler to gift the Sussexes Frogmore House, given the revamping needed for Frogmore Cottage?

I know Frogmore House is used for events, but I still think it would be easier to turn it into a private residence, and it is much more attractive than Frogmore Cottage, imo.


Also- if Harry and Meghan don't wish to occupy the rooms at Kensington Palace, who will live there?
Staff? Or will Eugenie get moved to a bigger apartment when she becomes pregnant?

 

[Terri Terri]

Privacy is paramount to Harry and Meghan and they will get that in spades at Frogmore Cottage.

I saw this mentioned on another website but does anyone think that Harry may take over as Ranger of Windsor Park in the future?

 

[alvinking]

Well I for one see problems in the near future. I am not convinced that Harry is keen on having his kids attend St George's School in Windsor, maybe Eton later on in life, but generally parents want their children to follow in their footsteps. Maybe not Jane Mynors' nursery school if it still exists, but certainly Wetherby School and Ludgrove School. Though Ludgrove is a boarding school for older boys in Berkshire so close enough, commuting to Wetherby everyday for young kids is not feasible at all.

 

[Terri Terri]

How can anyone of us presume to know what Harry and Meghan want for their child/children? The child isn't even born yet! Let's leave the decision making on schools to the parents!

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Privacy is paramount to Harry and Meghan and they will get that in spades at Frogmore Cottage.

I saw this mentioned on another website but does anyone think that Harry may take over as Ranger of Windsor Park in the future?

When this idea was mentioned a few days ago, someone said The Earl of Wessex is already managing Windsor.