General Discussion about Royal Residences 2: Sep 2022 -

[Mbruno]

If the Wales family move into Royal Lodge they will have three very large residences at their disposal, Anmer, the apartment at KP, and Royal Lodge. How many large houses does one family need in 21st century Britain?

And it would be terrible optics for British citizens struggling with mortgages, rate hikes, and increasing homelessness due to the cost of living.

How many large residences did Charles have as Prince of Wales? William and Kate are Prince and Princess of Wales now, which puts them in a whole different category than when they were just the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. A London base, a Sandrigham base and a Windsor residence look acceptable to me.

In any case, I believe that they might close down their KP apartment as KP becomes a working palace only.

 

[JR76]

In any case, I believe that they might close down their KP apartment as KP becomes a working palace only.

If they only need KP for offices I wonder why they doesn't move them to BP. It would fit into the idea of a more slim lined monarchy and might hopefully help end the very Windsor habit of having different mini courts fighting with each other.

 

[royal-blue]

The huge number of properties enjoyed by now just 4 senior royals doesn't look good at all. Obviously some are privately owned, but a lot of the public can't differentiate.

I am convinced the Wales family will now move to Royal Lodge this summer.

Probably a silly question, but what happens if Andrew completely refuses to move out? Would a repossession order be needed, and possibly bailiffs? He has of course signed a very long lease. Does the King or Crown Estate have the power to just terminate this for no good reason?

 

[tommy100]

The use of royal residences seems to have been very ill thought out in the past. Anmer was never really going to work for W&C once the children were in school and they began more royal duties. It does seem Charles is trying to be a bit more thorough in his thinking of how royal residences are used.
That said, especially now W&C are Prince & Princess of Wales it doesn't really seem worth them giving up any of their royal residences. A house on Windsor is needed for the children to go to school (Mon-Saturday term time), Anmer is not needed but now its been done out for the family and they can well afford to keep it it seems pointless to get rid of it. William is heir to Sandringham now so having a residence on the estate is logical and no doubt W&C would still use a property on the estate at Christmas so why move out of one house to use another?

Likewise with KP - if they had known all along that the children were going to go to school in Windsor it would make sense for the couple to have had only a small London apartment like Edward and Sophie, Andrew and Anne but now they have KP depriving them off a London residence is unlikely. They'd still use a set of rooms somewhere so again you'd have more rooms being prepared for them to use just so they couldn't use the apartment already made for them.

I think the RF (led by Charles) having a good long think about royal residences and how they are used, how they will or should be used in the future is important. For example, were Andrew to move to a smaller house on the Windsor Estate it would future proof a residence for him - if he can't afford to upkeep Royal Lodge without money from Charles clearly it really is out of his means to keep.

I wonder if we won't see Andrew move out of Royal Lodge due to the work needed for maintenance, moving into a smaller Windsor residence and after a year or two when the work is done it being announced the Wales' will move in. Or, if Charles isn't going to use Windsor much himself maybe they've decided Royal Lodge can be rented out commercially as the sovereign isn't going to be using the Royal Chapel of All Saints like the late Queen did regularly.

 

[royal-blue]

The optics of members of the royal family constantly moving house and spending millions on renovations before moving yet again does not look good at all.

4 homes should be enough for Charles, just as it was for the late Queen: Windsor Castle, Sandringham, Balmoral and CH until BP is complete.

Clearly, the Sussex and Andrew house situation is awaiting resolution.

The Wales family residencs seems to be an issue now. They have KP, Adelaide, Anmer Hall. They will probably receive Birkhall in the future too. Plus there is Highgrove which Charles seems to have retained. And then is the soon to be vacant Royal Lodge, which I'm sure they will want to keep in the family.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

If they only need KP for offices I wonder why they doesn't move them to BP. It would fit into the idea of a more slim lined monarchy and might hopefully help end the very Windsor habit of having different mini courts fighting with each other.

BP is undergoing renovations so I’m not sure they can move in. Plus I think for more privacy, it’s not a good idea to be there due to its central location.

 

[tommy100]

The reasoning seems clearer and clearer, the Mail on Sunday has a good article and from a number of other sources it seems:

Royal Lodge needs two teams to secure it, now that Andrew doesn't get official security the King would have to pick up that bill, hence why it would be better if Andrew left

Royal Lodge needs a number of costly repairs now, twenty odd years after Andrew had to do the last lot as part of the lease agreement. How he would afford to do them now is questionable. (I'm not really convinced of this but it is being said alot)

Frogmore Cottage is both in a better state of repair and inside the main Windsor Castle security cordon. If Andrew were to move in it would save on repair bills, save on security bills for the King, and save the constant photos of Andrew driving about Windsor all the time

The MoS suggests H&M may be offered Andrew's old apartment in Buckingham Palace for when they visit - a perfectly secure residence which wouldn't need any extra caring for while they are away, provides them a UK base but also means a perfectly usable large house isn't sitting empty all year just for a visit for a day or two.

The suggestion is Eugenie (or Beatrice) may get Adelaide cottage after the Wales' move to Royal Lodge - after any repair and maintenance is carried out. A good way to lure Andrew into agreeing maybe

The MoS suggests Andrew moving out of Royal Lodge was on the table before the late Queen died. If he moves out now he may get up to £1.5million back in light of the renovations he paid for.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-losers-great-Royal-property-merry-round.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...han-Buckingham-Palace-apartment-visit-UK.html

 

[Asteria12]

The reasoning seems clearer and clearer, the Mail on Sunday has a good article and from a number of other sources it seems:

Royal Lodge needs two teams to secure it, now that Andrew doesn't get official security the King would have to pick up that bill, hence why it would be better if Andrew left

Royal Lodge needs a number of costly repairs now, twenty odd years after Andrew had to do the last lot as part of the lease agreement. How he would afford to do them now is questionable. (I'm not really convinced of this but it is being said alot)

Frogmore Cottage is both in a better state of repair and inside the main Windsor Castle security cordon. If Andrew were to move in it would save on repair bills, save on security bills for the King, and save the constant photos of Andrew driving about Windsor all the time

The MoS suggests H&M may be offered Andrew's old apartment in Buckingham Palace for when they visit - a perfectly secure residence which wouldn't need any extra caring for while they are away, provides them a UK base but also means a perfectly usable large house isn't sitting empty all year just for a visit for a day or two.

The suggestion is Eugenie (or Beatrice) may get Adelaide cottage after the Wales' move to Royal Lodge - after any repair and maintenance is carried out. A good way to lure Andrew into agreeing maybe

The MoS suggests Andrew moving out of Royal Lodge was on the table before the late Queen died. If he moves out now he may get up to £1.5million back in light of the renovations he paid for.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-losers-great-Royal-property-merry-round.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...han-Buckingham-Palace-apartment-visit-UK.html

Agree, I think it very likely this has been part of long-term planning and not, as the tabloids might suggest, some sort of knee-jerk reaction to H&M.

 

[royal-blue]

Is there any possibility that Clarence House could be used as a residence for Prince Andrew, once the King and Queen eventually relocate to BP?

 

[yukari]

(...)

I agree that the biggest mistake in retrospect was the KP apartment, they probably don't really use it anymore now. No, I don't think that they should have stayed at Nottingham Cottage all these years, but in my opinion they should have thought this through way earlier. Their choice of their homes does not seem well-planned, so they just changed their minds and yes, they can, but I am predicting that it will go down badly in terms of adding other mansion when it's a very bad time economically for most people.

(...)

IMO, the miscalculation is that nobody predicted Andrew to mess up this bad that he'll be kicked out from RL. Because otherwise, right now he'd still be working royal supporting his brother The King and in exchange he'd live comfortably in RL until his last breath in which Charles would subsidise the cost to maintain the property for him, and we won't have this discussion about William's hypothetical move to RL to begin with.

My impression, KP is William's official residence/office as PoW, similar to Charles has Clarence House (and the PM has No 10). Considering Charles still hasn't moved from CH (because BP is under refurbishment), I think the arrangement seems to work well for the smooth transition between PoWs since if William doesn't have KP, where would the current PoW's staff be? Meanwhile, Anmer Hall is their country residence which they regularly use for holiday retreat (doesn't Frederick own a chalet in Swiss for his family's holiday retreat?). Moreso AH is private property, if monarchy is abolished tomorrow AH will still be his, unlike KP, so why should it be given up?

Personally I think the Waleses should continue living in Adelaide Cottage. Living in "small house" (for a royal's standard) may work well for the kids' character development so they won't grow up with the sense of entitlement like Andrew or Harry (or even Charles, and maybe William) who live in literal palace their whole lives.

Back to Royal Lodge, if they can't commercially lease it for sentimental reason, why don't they open it to public (just like Frogmore House), sort of making it a museum in memory or the Queen Mother and Queen Elizabeth's childhood?

Is there any possibility that Clarence House could be used as a residence for Prince Andrew, once the King and Queen eventually relocate to BP?

Charles kicked him out from his BP flat, I doubt he'll offer him any place in CH. My suggestion will be Craigowan Lodge in Balmoral estate. It's private property, nothing to do with Crown Estate nor taxpayer money and remote enough so should be "safe" for Andrew (plus give the "illusion" of exiling him too. Charles can let him live there for free or charge him cheap rent.

 

[muriel]

Is there any possibility that Clarence House could be used as a residence for Prince Andrew, once the King and Queen eventually relocate to BP?

Not in my view. The next occupant of CH may well end up being George, as Prince of Wales.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Not in my view. The next occupant of CH may well end up being George, as Prince of Wales.

Isn't Clarence House still being used by the King and Queen Consort presently?

 

[muriel]

Isn't Clarence House still being used by the King and Queen Consort presently?

It is, indeed. My sense is that they will not move into BP for another 4-5 years, till the renovation work, which was scheduled for a decade, is complete.

 

[Denville]

IMO, the miscalculation is that nobody predicted Andrew to mess up this bad that he'll be kicked out from RL. Because otherwise, right now he'd still be working royal supporting his brother The King and in exchange he'd live comfortably in RL until his last breath in which Charles would subsidise the cost to maintain the property for him, and we won't have this discussion about William's hypothetical move to RL to begin with.

if they can't commercially lease it for sentimental reason, why don't they open it to public (just like Frogmore House), sort of making it a museum in memory or the Queen Mother and Queen Elizabeth's childhood?



Charles kicked him out from his BP flat, I doubt he'll offer him any place in CH. My suggestion will be Craigowan Lodge in Balmoral estate. It's private property, nothing to do with Crown Estate nor taxpayer money and remote enough so should be "safe" for Andrew (plus give the "illusion" of exiling him too. Charles can let him live there for free or charge him cheap rent.

Charles iddn't Kick him out, as you put it. Andrew does not need rooms in BP now as he's not doing royal duties and probably rarely goes to London. He's not going to exile Andrew or punish him, the way you seem to think

 

[An Ard Ri]

It is, indeed. My sense is that they will not move into BP for another 4-5 years, till the renovation work, which was scheduled for a decade, is complete.

And Clarence House always seems to ne a more personal residence to Charles and feels more 'homely'

 

[Stefan]

And Clarence House always seems to ne a more personal residence to Charles and feels more 'homely'

Exactly and i were in their position i would keep it as their London home and use BP only for representation and official Events

 

[An Ard Ri]

Exactly and i were in their position i would keep it as their London home and use BP only for representation and official Events

Seems very logical and only a stones throw from the Big House

 

[Lilyflo]

Exactly and i were in their position i would keep it as their London home and use BP only for representation and official Events

I think that's always been Charles's plan and I doubt he'll ever give up Clarence House in order to move into BP. I don't think he'll make Windsor Castle his weekend home either, unlike his parents. He'll probably keep Highgrove for that but I think he'll spend more time at Balmoral and Sandringham via shorter visits throughout the year, rather than the traditional extended stays in summer and winter.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The long awaited great RRR (royal residential reshuffle) has begun!

So it looks like Royal Lodge will be freed up. It seems a real shame for this great house to leave the family after so many decades but apart from possibly William and his family, there just aren't snough royals to utilise so many properties any longer.

It is not that easy to get the Duke of York out of Royal Lodge.

Prince Andrew has a 75 years (!) lease from the Crown Estate. As long as he pays his lease and does the agreed maintenance to the building, there are no grounds to enforce the Duke to move out. So it will always be in mutual agreement when another housing arrangement is agreed.

That Frogmore Cottage lies within the security perimeter of Windsor Castle might help. It would mean the Duke, when living there, will be "included" by the security and surveillance of the King's residence, so that no longer separate security arrangements are needed for Royal Lodge.

We will see how it all unfolds.

 

[Denville]

I dont think Andrew will want to leave. the only thing that might persuade him is the security issue as it is not as safe as some other buildings in the Windsor area.

 

[royal-blue]

How often do the Wales family actually use KP now? Perhaps this huge apartment could be exchanged for something smaller? If they do move from Adelaide Cottage to Royal Lodge, this would avoid the situation of having 3 huge mansions which doesn't look good.

 

[tommy100]

The "theoretical move" we all think is happening makes sense:

Andrew lives at Royal Lodge and yes has a 75 year lease but he also has to maintain it and also wants / needs security around the house. Royal Lodge is not in the main Windsor Castle security cordon so requires its own security. That was once paid for by the police but now Andrew has lost that security the bill would need to be picked up by Charles via the Duchy of Lancaster.

At the same time, Frogmore Cottage is sitting empty most of the time nearby but inside the main Castle security cordon. So empty Eugenie is able to live there when needed.

Its pure logic for Charles to try and get Andrew into Frogmore where he won't be on the line for a huge million + security bill each year.

The Sussex's don't really need such a large house for their infrequent visits, a smaller property on the estate or indeed as suggested, Andrew's former BP apartment would be enough.

The Wales' going to Royal Lodge makes sense in the fact that he has the Duchy of Cornwall income to fund upkeep and other costs as well as being entitled to official funded security.

I can see Adelaide going to Eugenie (sweetner to convince Andrew out of RL or to the Sussex's - "its secure enough for the Wales' as heirs so secure enough for them")
So purely on paper it makes perfect sense.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Cambridge House in London, England was the residence of Prince Adolphus, Duke of Cambridge (1774-1850).
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-cambridge-house-85686997.html

 

[royal-blue]

All seems to have gone quiet on both the Royal Lodge and Frogmore Cottage questions. If I was Andrew then I would definitely prefer a smaller house that is easier and cheaper to manage.

 

[princesstully]

I agree that the cold consensus has taken hold here. Yes Andrew should concede.

 

[Denville]

All seems to have gone quiet on both the Royal Lodge and Frogmore Cottage questions. If I was Andrew then I would definitely prefer a smaller house that is easier and cheaper to manage.

Andrew is soemone who craves status, and I doubt if he will leave RL unless he really can't manage to pay for it. It is his house as long as he can pay the expenses on it. If he begins to have money problems, Charles wil probalby pressure him to move into a smaller place but I dont know if that is happening as yet.

 

[muriel]

Andrew is soemone who craves status, and I doubt if he will leave RL unless he really can't manage to pay for it. It is his house as long as he can pay the expenses on it. If he begins to have money problems, Charles wil probalby pressure him to move into a smaller place but I dont know if that is happening as yet.

I do not believe the issue is about his ability to pay for the running of Royal Lodge, it is about the cost of his security. Royal Lodge is outside the security perimeter, and so the cost of security is probably being bourn by Charles currently.

 

[tommy100]

https://archive.ph/lyT7e

"The King has given up his home in Wales as he begins the process of trimming the costs of his multiple residences, The Telegraph can disclose.

His Majesty bought Llwynywermod in 2007 via the Duchy of Cornwall, paying £1.2 million for the farmhouse near Llandovery in Carmarthenshire.

When he was Prince of Wales he used it as his base during regular visits to the nation, but after the title passed to his son, Prince William, he will no longer spend as much time in the region.

Royal sources said the King remained “passionate” about Wales but had decided to give up the property because it was “unlikely” he would be able to use it in the same way as before..."

100% the wrong decision over which property to ditch first IMO. CH and BP in London, Windsor and Highgrove, Birkhall and Balmoral ...currently spending time at property in Romania...yet the only royal property in Wales gets ditched.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

https://archive.ph/lyT7e

"The King has given up his home in Wales as he begins the process of trimming the costs of his multiple residences, The Telegraph can disclose.

His Majesty bought Llwynywermod in 2007 via the Duchy of Cornwall, paying £1.2 million for the farmhouse near Llandovery in Carmarthenshire.

When he was Prince of Wales he used it as his base during regular visits to the nation, but after the title passed to his son, Prince William, he will no longer spend as much time in the region.

Royal sources said the King remained “passionate” about Wales but had decided to give up the property because it was “unlikely” he would be able to use it in the same way as before..."

100% the wrong decision over which property to ditch first IMO. CH and BP in London, Windsor and Highgrove, Birkhall and Balmoral ...currently spending time at property in Romania...yet the only royal property in Wales gets ditched.

Well, I don’t think he will be living in BP, he will be using CH.

 

[Prinsara]

100% the wrong decision over which property to ditch first IMO. CH and BP in London, Windsor and Highgrove, Birkhall and Balmoral ...currently spending time at property in Romania...yet the only royal property in Wales gets ditched.

Considering Edward VII complained about not being able to maintain "five places at once" and ditched Osborne, it feels weird that there are another half a dozen a century on.

I think the mistake is not by the King in giving up his most-recently acquired but in William having nowhere in Wales, however much he thinks staying in hotels "will help the local economy".