Windsor/Mountbatten-Windsor: Name of Royal House and Surname

[Osipi]

But then, why does Edward's daughter Louise just use Windsor, instead of Mountbatten-Windsor?

Her full name is Lady Louise Alice Elizabeth Mary Mountbatten-Windsor. I have always thought that she used the surname of Mountbatten-Windsor. Maybe someone here knows more than I do.

Perhaps she uses the style of Lady Louise Windsor because she is part of the House of Windsor by birth? Just a guess.

 

[Ish]

I believe Louise just uses Windsor because of her father's preference.

If you look at the CC, she's recognized as Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor - or at least she is now. However, it seems like Edward has a preference for simply "Windsor" - that's what he used professionally before he was married.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I suspect that like of lot of people with double barrelled names they use one for convenience rather than having to write the full name. I have a number of students I teach whose name appears on the rolls etc using only one of the names but on formal documents, such as reports, the full name is shown.

I would suspect that asking a five year old to learn 'Mountbatten-Windsor' is a lot harder than simply 'Windsor' and so Louise was Windsor for convenience but her formal documents - passport, school reports, A-level certificate, degree (if she gets one) etc will have Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[Molly2101]

I suspect that like of lot of people with double barrelled names they use one for convenience rather than having to write the full name. I have a number of students I teach whose name appears on the rolls etc using only one of the names but on formal documents, such as reports, the full name is shown.

I would suspect that asking a five year old to learn 'Mountbatten-Windsor' is a lot harder than simply 'Windsor' and so Louise was Windsor for convenience but her formal documents - passport, school reports, A-level certificate, degree (if she gets one) etc will have Mountbatten-Windsor.

I think you're right about using one name for convenience. For Louise's (and James' as well) Olympic/Paralympic and Commonwealth ID badges, they said The Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor/The Lord James Mountatten-Windsor, but when Louise attends Ascot her badge simply says "Lady Louise Windsor". I believe at school she also only uses Louise Windsor (dropping the Lady part).

 

[Princess Bobbi]

If memory serves me correctly, wasn't Queen Victoria the member of the House of Hanover to rule?

It was her son Edward VII, who changed the House name to Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, as this was Albert's name. Edward VII became the first ruler of the House of Saxe-Colburg and Gotha.

It was his son George V that changed that name to the House of Windsor.

Since the British Royals love tradition, shouldn't it be Charles who changes the name of the house to the House of Mountbatten and possibly change those whose last name is Mountbatten-Windsor to just Mountbatten?

 

[Osipi]

I don't think Charles will change the name of the house to Mountbatten or Mountbatten-Windsor for the simple reason that I don't think he'll see a need to. It would also pretty much shock the socks of the globe if he did so as it would be seen as being a slight to his mother's memory. Charles knows his reign will not be an overly long one and historically, he may even been seen as a "transitional" king that reigned between Queen Elizabeth II and William V.

Then again, anything is possible. I just don't think its probable.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If Lord Mountbatten hadn't been so presumptuous as to declare 'the House of Mountbatten now rules' or words to that effect, shortly after the accession of The Queen and had let the matter take their normal course no one would be in the slightest concerned when Charles took the throne as the first monarch of the House of Mountbatten as historically the House name has always changed when a King succeeded a female e.g. the change for Tudor to Stuart happened when Elizabeth I was succeeded by James the VI and I. It changed again when Anne was replaced by George I and again when Edward VII succeeded Victoria. No one was surprised or upset when Edward became the King of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha as that was his father's name.

Having caused the issue to raise its head so early in the reign it had to be dealt with - Elizabeth was of course the last of the 'Windsors' and Charles should have been the first of the House of Mountbatten taking the name from his father but that all changed in 1960 with the Queen's announcement about the House and surnames so I am sure he will remain a Windsor and there now won't be a House name change until their is another Queen succeeded by her own heir who will take their name from their father.

 

[Ish]

It can be noted too that while the name isn't changing (although it remains to be seen if Charles or William will change it), the House itself will.

The Queen belongs to the House of Windsor as a cadet branch of the House of Saxe-County and Gotha, itself a cadet branch of the House of Wettin.

Charles and his descendants belong to the House of Windsor as a cadet branch of the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, itself a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg.

It is very likely that the House will remain Windsor (or Mountbatten-Windsor) for generations to come even as it passes through female lines - because the trend of marrying other royals (or even nobles) has passed, future royal spouses aren't likely to come from a "House" at all.

 

[Purrs]

question about Prince William and Prince Harry's last names

Hi,

I searched for answers to this question and I couldn't find any.

I realize both are now usually referred to by their titles (Duke of Cambridge or Duke of Sussex). From what I understand although royals don't generally use last names they are part of the Windsors or Mountbatten-Windsors.

When they were younger and both at school and later in the army, they used the last name of "Wales" (after their father's title). Does anyone know why "Wales" was chosen?

Was it because it is shorter than Mountbatten-Windsor (and easier to say)? Was it to avoid having to choose between the names of Windsor and Mountbatten-Windsor (since Phillip was initially upset that his children wouldn't have his last name - I know they are his grandsons.)

Is Prince George called "George Cambridge" at school where a last name is required?

 

[Curryong]

My guess is that the brothers chose to be called 'Wales' because they were the sons of the Prince of Wales and known as that, whereas the name Mountbatten-Windsor or Windsor casts a wider net and is used by various members of the extended Windsor family. Therefore Wales was easily identifiable and people instantly knew who they were.

KP confirmed that George is known as George Cambridge at school shortly after he started there.

https://www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/culture/news/a38387/prince-george-name-at-school/

 

[Countessmeout]

Based on the declaration made in 1960, the name Mountbattan-Windsor is used by male-line descendants who DONT have a royal title or style.

That is why currently the only ones who use it on an every day basis are Louise and James. In school and work, Beatrice and Eugenie use York. George and Charlotte will use Cambridge.

At times when they need a last name, like in law suits in foreign countries, they have used Mountbatten-Windsor when a last name is required. This was the case when William and Kate sued the paper in France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountbatten-Windsor

 

[Ish]

When they were younger and both at school and later in the army, they used the last name of "Wales" (after their father's title). Does anyone know why "Wales" was chosen?

It’s actually fairly common in British nobility for titles to be used in place of a surname - for example, the current Duke of Marlborough (full name Charles James Spencer-Churchill) is known as Jamie Marlborough. Prior to his ascension to the title, he used Blandford as a surname as his title then was Marquess of Blandford.

In Royalty we see this to - William and Harry both used Wales as a surname through their schooling and careers, Beatrice and Eugenie use York, and the Earl of Wessex used Wessex as a surname when he was still working. I would assume that the Kent’s and Gloucesters followed suit during their lives, but cannot confirm, although it is reported that the Duchess of Kent prefers to go by the name Katherine Kent in her private and professional life.

 

[Tsaritsa]

Hi,

I searched for answers to this question and I couldn't find any.

I realize both are now usually referred to by their titles (Duke of Cambridge or Duke of Sussex). From what I understand although royals don't generally use last names they are part of the Windsors or Mountbatten-Windsors.

When they were younger and both at school and later in the army, they used the last name of "Wales" (after their father's title). Does anyone know why "Wales" was chosen?

Was it because it is shorter than Mountbatten-Windsor (and easier to say)? Was it to avoid having to choose between the names of Windsor and Mountbatten-Windsor (since Phillip was initially upset that his children wouldn't have his last name - I know they are his grandsons.)

Is Prince George called "George Cambridge" at school where a last name is required?

I'll do my best to answer your questions.

The family's collective name is Mountbatten-Windsor

William and Harry Wales were so called because their father, Prince Charles, is The Prince of Wales.

George V -the present Queen's Grandfather- changed the original Hanovarian name (something long-winded and German because the dynasty began there) into the more acceptable and solidly British name of Windsor because there was an outcry against all things German around the time of WWI.

Prince Philip was undeniably upset that his children wouldn't have his name but I don't believe it was included until Princess Anne married.

The Cambridge children will have Cambridge as their surname -as their father and uncle had Wales as theirs- when they're at school. Any offspring of Harry and Meghan will have the surname Sussex.

 

[Mbruno]

I'll do my best to answer your questions.

The family's collective name is Mountbatten-Windsor

William and Harry Wales were so called because their father, Prince Charles, is The Prince of Wales.

George V -the present Queen's Grandfather- changed the original Hanovarian name (something long-winded and German because the dynasty began there) into the more acceptable and solidly British name of Windsor because there was an outcry against all things German around the time of WWI.

Prince Philip was undeniably upset that his children wouldn't have his name but I don't believe it was included until Princess Anne married.

The Cambridge children will have Cambridge as their surname -as their father and uncle had Wales as theirs- when they're at school. Any offspring of Harry and Meghan will have the surname Sussex.

The family name before George V changed it to Windsor was already no longer Hanover, but rather Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, i.e. Prince Albert’s family name, as a Royal House in the UK was traditionally named in paternal line.

The situation today is somewhat inconsistent. Queen Elizabeth II has declared that the name of the Royal House should continue to be House of Windsor, but, at the same time, she said that the family name of her male-line descendants, whenever they needed or were required to use one, would be Mountbatten-Windsor, which is a composite of their paternal and maternal names ( like Habsburg-Lorraine , or Orléans e Bragança for example).

That is why , for example, the male-line descendants who are not HRHs of the first Dukes of Gloucester and Kent ( younger sons of George V) use the last name Windsor, whereas the children for example of Prince Edward , Earl of Wessex (James and Louise) have the last name Mountbatten-Windsor.

Technically, using the patrilineal criterion, the Royal House would change names when Charles became King, but it remains to be seen if Charles will acknowledge that officially, or if, as his mother decreed, the Royal House will continue to be called simply House of Windsor as opposed to Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

That is why currently the only ones who use it on an every day basis are Louise and James.

It is likely that Viscount Severn uses James Severn at school. Being known by the territorial designation from their title, in lieu of their legal surname, is the custom for non-royal peers as well as royals in the UK. Princess Margaret's son the Earl of Snowdon is known as David Snowdon at work, whereas his legal surname is Armstrong-Jones.

The custom also exists in a few other European royal families. Most (but not all) princesses and princes of Belgium, Luxembourg, and Monaco use names such as Elisabeth van België, Guillaume de Luxembourg, and Stéphanie de Monaco, whereas by law, their surnames of these three royals are van Saksen-Coburg, de Nassau, and Grimaldi.

 

[Tsaritsa]

The family name before George V changed it to Windsor was already no longer Hanover, but rather Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, i.e. Prince Albert’s family name, as a Royal House in the UK was traditionally named in paternal line.

The situation today is somewhat inconsistent. Queen Elizabeth II has declared that the name of the Royal House should continue to be House of Windsor, but, at the same time, she said that the family name of her male-line descendants, whenever they needed or were required to use one, would be Mountbatten-Windsor, which is a composite of their paternal and maternal names ( like Habsburg-Lorraine , or Orléans e Bragança for example).

That is why , for example, the male-line descendants who are not HRHs of the first Dukes of Gloucester and Kent ( younger sons of George V) use the last name Windsor, whereas the children for example of Prince Edward , Earl of Wessex (James and Louise) have the last name Mountbatten-Windsor.

Technically, using the patrilineal criterion, the Royal House would change names when Charles became King, but it remains to be seen if Charles will acknowledge that officially, or if, as his mother decreed, the Royal House will continue to be called simply House of Windsor as opposed to Mountbatten-Windsor.

My error. By "family's collective name" I meant those descending from Prince Philip who had been Philip Mountbatten, having ceased to be Prince Philip of Greece.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

This article stated Prince Harry's full name is Henry Charles Albert David Windsor.
http://www.elitedaily.com/p/what-is-prince-harrys-last-name-5667799

 

[Ish]

This article stated Prince Harry's full name is Henry Charles Albert David Windsor.

http://www.elitedaily.com/p/what-is-prince-harrys-last-name-5667799

This article is wrong.

 

[Somebody]

The article is rubbish. Harry never was 'the prince of Wales' a title he supposedly shares with his father and brother... The Duke of Cambridge is not a secondary title, etc.

And relevant to this topic: Harry is 'Mountbatten-Windsor' if he ever is in need of a surname (which he isn't in the UK).

About the only thing the article got right is that they ended up being the duke and duchess of Sussex.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

And relevant to this topic: Harry is 'Mountbatten-Windsor' if he ever is in need of a surname (which he isn't in the UK).

"Mountbatten-Windsor" is used in legal documents (if a surname is required). When he is in need of a surname in his everyday life, it will be "Sussex" (assuming that he follows tradition).

In general, British royals use surnames on marriage registers in the UK - here is a post with a link to that of Princess Anne.

We're getting off-topic but...according to "The Queen: The Life of Elizabeth II" by Elizabeth Longford, Anne's name was filled in by the registrar as "Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise Mountbatten-Windsor" at the Queen's request. She quotes a comment from Buckingham Palace in October 1975:

"This was the first time that the surname "Mountbatten-Windsor" was used on an official document by any of the Queen's descendants. It was the Queen's decision that this should be done as Her Majesty wished her husband's name to appear on the Marriage Register of their daughter. (The Queen did not seek the advice of her Ministers in this matter)." (p. 218).

The certificate appears here (I had to shorten the lengthy URL):
https://tinyurl.com/y8uy82g6

The entry for Peter Phillips in the General Register Office's England and Wales Civil Registration Indexes (digital images available in Ancestry) lists his mother's maiden name as "Mountbatten-Windsor." Zara's entry lists her name as "Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise (H.R.H)."

 

[Ish]

"Mountbatten-Windsor" is used in legal documents (if a surname is required). When he is in need of a surname in his everyday life, it will be "Sussex" (assuming that he follows tradition).

That’s not entirely accurate.

There are times when members of the BRF have chosen to use Mountbatten-Windsor on legal documents - such as Anne’s marriage registry. There are also times when they have chosen to not use Mountbatten-Windsor and stuck with titles - when Charles and Camilla married, he stuck with titles; you only see titles on the birth certificates of William, Beatrice, George, Charlotte, and Louis (I’ve not been able to find Harry or Eugenie’s online).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

That’s not entirely accurate.

There are times when members of the BRF have chosen to use Mountbatten-Windsor on legal documents - such as Anne’s marriage registry. There are also times when they have chosen to not use Mountbatten-Windsor and stuck with titles - when Charles and Camilla married, he stuck with titles; you only see titles on the birth certificates of William, Beatrice, George, Charlotte, and Louis (I’ve not been able to find Harry or Eugenie’s online).

That is what I meant by "if a surname is required" - although, as you point out, there may have been an element of choice instead of requirement at times.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Am I correct: Prince Henry is Henry Mountbatten-Windsor. Can he shorten this to Henry/Harry Windsor?

 

[MaiaMia_53]

^^ Prince Harry was referred to as Harry Wales during his military service. Prince George is known as George Cambridge (instead of Prince George) at school. In that respect, Meghan/Harry's children will likely use 'Sussex' as a surname in certain instances.

On occasion, Mountbatten-Windsor is used, as for example by Prince William during the suit he brought and won against newspaper publishers sometime ago. But the royal family is officially designated The House of Windsor, and will continue to be for some time with several male heirs to the throne currently in-waiting. And even if there was a female heir front-and-center (similar to when Queen Elizabeth inherited the throne) the Windsor name would probably be retained.

 

[Kataryn]

^^ Prince Harry was referred to as Harry Wales during his military service. Prince George is known as George Cambridge (instead of Prince George) at school. In that respect, Meghan/Harry's children will likely use 'Sussex' as a surname in certain instances.

On occasion, Mountbatten-Windsor is used, as for example by Prince William during the suit he brought and won against newspaper publishers sometime ago. But the royal family is officially designated The House of Windsor, and will continue to be for some time with several male heirs to the throne currently in-waiting. And even if there was a female heir front-and-center (similar to when Queen Elizabeth inherited the throne) the Windsor name would probably be retained.

If Charles wanted, he could change the name of the Royal House because it used to be Saxe-Coburg-Gotha from Edward VII. (after his father Albert, queen Victoria was the last Hanover), then, in 1917 it was changed officially to Windsor with the current queen the last of the Windsors. Elizabeth wanted the House to be known as "Mountbatten-Windsor" for her and Philip's offspring, so I have no doubt that Charles will follow her wish, but "normally" Charles would be the first Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (after Philip's family) on the throne, which is a younger branch of the House of Oldenburg.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

If Charles wanted, he could change the name of the Royal House because it used to be Saxe-Coburg-Gotha from Edward VII. (after his father Albert, queen Victoria was the last Hanover), then, in 1917 it was changed officially to Windsor with the current queen the last of the Windsors. Elizabeth wanted the House to be known as "Mountbatten-Windsor" for her and Philip's offspring, so I have no doubt that Charles will follow her wish, but "normally" Charles would be the first Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (after Philip's family) on the throne, which is a younger branch of the House of Oldenburg.

How fortunately not that 'so not British' mouthful. It's a credit to the royals and to the British government that the name of the British monarchy's Royal House was swiftly changed during the difficult and worrisome time of WWI.

Of course upon inheriting the throne, Charles could adjust the official name of the royal firm. But I seriously doubt that he will.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

In Young Elizabeth The Making of the Queen, Kate Williams wrote:
On the birth of Prince Andrew, it was decided that the name Mountbatten-Windsor was to be used for those not entitled to be called Royal Highness (although in practice these members are referred to only as 'Windsor').

 

[Denville]

In Young Elizabeth The Making of the Queen, Kate Williams wrote:
On the birth of Prince Andrew, it was decided that the name Mountbatten-Windsor was to be used for those not entitled to be called Royal Highness (although in practice these members are referred to only as 'Windsor').

Not necessarily. IIRC Anne signed her marriage register as Mountbatten Windsor.. Just htat sometimes for brevity, they may drop the first part of the double barrel...

 

[Mbruno]

If Charles wanted, he could change the name of the Royal House because it used to be Saxe-Coburg-Gotha from Edward VII. (after his father Albert, queen Victoria was the last Hanover), then, in 1917 it was changed officially to Windsor with the current queen the last of the Windsors. Elizabeth wanted the House to be known as "Mountbatten-Windsor" for her and Philip's offspring,

In 1960, Queen Elizabeth II declared in Council that she and her children would continue to be known as the "House and Family of Windsor", but that her direct descendants, other than those who are HRHs and married female descendants and their respective descendants, would have the name Mountbatten-Windsor. The full text of Her Majesty's declaration is reproduced below.

House of Windsor (Feb 8, 1960)

At the Court at Buckingham Palace, The 8th day of February 1960.
Present, the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.
Her Majesty was this day pleased to make the following declaration:
"My Lords
Whereas on the 9th day of April 1952, I did declare in Council My Will and Pleasure that I and My children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that My descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor:
And whereas I have given further consideration to the position of those of My descendants who will enjoy neither the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness, nor the titluar dignity of Prince and for whom therefore a surname will be necessary:
And whereas I have concluded that the Declaration made by Me on the 9th day of April 1952, should be varied in its application to such persons:
Now therefore I declare My Will and Pleasure that, while I and My Children shall continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor.

In practice, it seems that even the Queen's children, when they need to use a surname for any reason, use the family name Mountbatten-Windsor, which seems to be inconsistent with the Queen's declaration that they should continue to be known as the "House and Family of Windsor".


If anything, I believe Charles could rectify that inconsistency making it officially known that the Royal House should be known as the House of Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[Denville]

its not inconsistent.. it is acknowledging Philip while not changing the name of the house and retaining the House of Windsor, which has served the country well...