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  #221  
Old 06-12-2018, 10:47 PM
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Based on the declaration made in 1960, the name Mountbattan-Windsor is used by male-line descendants who DONT have a royal title or style.

That is why currently the only ones who use it on an every day basis are Louise and James. In school and work, Beatrice and Eugenie use York. George and Charlotte will use Cambridge.

At times when they need a last name, like in law suits in foreign countries, they have used Mountbatten-Windsor when a last name is required. This was the case when William and Kate sued the paper in France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountbatten-Windsor
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  #222  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Purrs View Post
When they were younger and both at school and later in the army, they used the last name of "Wales" (after their father's title). Does anyone know why "Wales" was chosen?
It’s actually fairly common in British nobility for titles to be used in place of a surname - for example, the current Duke of Marlborough (full name Charles James Spencer-Churchill) is known as Jamie Marlborough. Prior to his ascension to the title, he used Blandford as a surname as his title then was Marquess of Blandford.

In Royalty we see this to - William and Harry both used Wales as a surname through their schooling and careers, Beatrice and Eugenie use York, and the Earl of Wessex used Wessex as a surname when he was still working. I would assume that the Kent’s and Gloucesters followed suit during their lives, but cannot confirm, although it is reported that the Duchess of Kent prefers to go by the name Katherine Kent in her private and professional life.
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  #223  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Purrs View Post
Hi,

I searched for answers to this question and I couldn't find any.

I realize both are now usually referred to by their titles (Duke of Cambridge or Duke of Sussex). From what I understand although royals don't generally use last names they are part of the Windsors or Mountbatten-Windsors.

When they were younger and both at school and later in the army, they used the last name of "Wales" (after their father's title). Does anyone know why "Wales" was chosen?

Was it because it is shorter than Mountbatten-Windsor (and easier to say)? Was it to avoid having to choose between the names of Windsor and Mountbatten-Windsor (since Phillip was initially upset that his children wouldn't have his last name - I know they are his grandsons.)

Is Prince George called "George Cambridge" at school where a last name is required?
I'll do my best to answer your questions.

The family's collective name is Mountbatten-Windsor

William and Harry Wales were so called because their father, Prince Charles, is The Prince of Wales.

George V -the present Queen's Grandfather- changed the original Hanovarian name (something long-winded and German because the dynasty began there) into the more acceptable and solidly British name of Windsor because there was an outcry against all things German around the time of WWI.

Prince Philip was undeniably upset that his children wouldn't have his name but I don't believe it was included until Princess Anne married.

The Cambridge children will have Cambridge as their surname -as their father and uncle had Wales as theirs- when they're at school. Any offspring of Harry and Meghan will have the surname Sussex.
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  #224  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
I'll do my best to answer your questions.

The family's collective name is Mountbatten-Windsor

William and Harry Wales were so called because their father, Prince Charles, is The Prince of Wales.

George V -the present Queen's Grandfather- changed the original Hanovarian name (something long-winded and German because the dynasty began there) into the more acceptable and solidly British name of Windsor because there was an outcry against all things German around the time of WWI.

Prince Philip was undeniably upset that his children wouldn't have his name but I don't believe it was included until Princess Anne married.

The Cambridge children will have Cambridge as their surname -as their father and uncle had Wales as theirs- when they're at school. Any offspring of Harry and Meghan will have the surname Sussex.
The family name before George V changed it to Windsor was already no longer Hanover, but rather Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, i.e. Prince Albert’s family name, as a Royal House in the UK was traditionally named in paternal line.

The situation today is somewhat inconsistent. Queen Elizabeth II has declared that the name of the Royal House should continue to be House of Windsor, but, at the same time, she said that the family name of her male-line descendants, whenever they needed or were required to use one, would be Mountbatten-Windsor, which is a composite of their paternal and maternal names ( like Habsburg-Lorraine , or Orléans e Bragança for example).

That is why , for example, the male-line descendants who are not HRHs of the first Dukes of Gloucester and Kent ( younger sons of George V) use the last name Windsor, whereas the children for example of Prince Edward , Earl of Wessex (James and Louise) have the last name Mountbatten-Windsor.

Technically, using the patrilineal criterion, the Royal House would change names when Charles became King, but it remains to be seen if Charles will acknowledge that officially, or if, as his mother decreed, the Royal House will continue to be called simply House of Windsor as opposed to Mountbatten-Windsor.
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  #225  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
That is why currently the only ones who use it on an every day basis are Louise and James.
It is likely that Viscount Severn uses James Severn at school. Being known by the territorial designation from their title, in lieu of their legal surname, is the custom for non-royal peers as well as royals in the UK. Princess Margaret's son the Earl of Snowdon is known as David Snowdon at work, whereas his legal surname is Armstrong-Jones.

The custom also exists in a few other European royal families. Most (but not all) princesses and princes of Belgium, Luxembourg, and Monaco use names such as Elisabeth van België, Guillaume de Luxembourg, and Stéphanie de Monaco, whereas by law, their surnames of these three royals are van Saksen-Coburg, de Nassau, and Grimaldi.
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  #226  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The family name before George V changed it to Windsor was already no longer Hanover, but rather Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, i.e. Prince Albert’s family name, as a Royal House in the UK was traditionally named in paternal line.

The situation today is somewhat inconsistent. Queen Elizabeth II has declared that the name of the Royal House should continue to be House of Windsor, but, at the same time, she said that the family name of her male-line descendants, whenever they needed or were required to use one, would be Mountbatten-Windsor, which is a composite of their paternal and maternal names ( like Habsburg-Lorraine , or Orléans e Bragança for example).

That is why , for example, the male-line descendants who are not HRHs of the first Dukes of Gloucester and Kent ( younger sons of George V) use the last name Windsor, whereas the children for example of Prince Edward , Earl of Wessex (James and Louise) have the last name Mountbatten-Windsor.

Technically, using the patrilineal criterion, the Royal House would change names when Charles became King, but it remains to be seen if Charles will acknowledge that officially, or if, as his mother decreed, the Royal House will continue to be called simply House of Windsor as opposed to Mountbatten-Windsor.

My error. By "family's collective name" I meant those descending from Prince Philip who had been Philip Mountbatten, having ceased to be Prince Philip of Greece.
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  #227  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:38 PM
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This article stated Prince Harry's full name is Henry Charles Albert David Windsor.
http://www.elitedaily.com/p/what-is-...t-name-5667799
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  #228  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
This article stated Prince Harry's full name is Henry Charles Albert David Windsor.

http://www.elitedaily.com/p/what-is-...t-name-5667799

This article is wrong.
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  #229  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:53 PM
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The article is rubbish. Harry never was 'the prince of Wales' a title he supposedly shares with his father and brother... The Duke of Cambridge is not a secondary title, etc.

And relevant to this topic: Harry is 'Mountbatten-Windsor' if he ever is in need of a surname (which he isn't in the UK).

About the only thing the article got right is that they ended up being the duke and duchess of Sussex.
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  #230  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
And relevant to this topic: Harry is 'Mountbatten-Windsor' if he ever is in need of a surname (which he isn't in the UK).
"Mountbatten-Windsor" is used in legal documents (if a surname is required). When he is in need of a surname in his everyday life, it will be "Sussex" (assuming that he follows tradition).

In general, British royals use surnames on marriage registers in the UK - here is a post with a link to that of Princess Anne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
We're getting off-topic but...according to "The Queen: The Life of Elizabeth II" by Elizabeth Longford, Anne's name was filled in by the registrar as "Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise Mountbatten-Windsor" at the Queen's request. She quotes a comment from Buckingham Palace in October 1975:

"This was the first time that the surname "Mountbatten-Windsor" was used on an official document by any of the Queen's descendants. It was the Queen's decision that this should be done as Her Majesty wished her husband's name to appear on the Marriage Register of their daughter. (The Queen did not seek the advice of her Ministers in this matter)." (p. 218).

The certificate appears here (I had to shorten the lengthy URL):
https://tinyurl.com/y8uy82g6

The entry for Peter Phillips in the General Register Office's England and Wales Civil Registration Indexes (digital images available in Ancestry) lists his mother's maiden name as "Mountbatten-Windsor." Zara's entry lists her name as "Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise (H.R.H)."
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  #231  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
"Mountbatten-Windsor" is used in legal documents (if a surname is required). When he is in need of a surname in his everyday life, it will be "Sussex" (assuming that he follows tradition).

That’s not entirely accurate.

There are times when members of the BRF have chosen to use Mountbatten-Windsor on legal documents - such as Anne’s marriage registry. There are also times when they have chosen to not use Mountbatten-Windsor and stuck with titles - when Charles and Camilla married, he stuck with titles; you only see titles on the birth certificates of William, Beatrice, George, Charlotte, and Louis (I’ve not been able to find Harry or Eugenie’s online).
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  #232  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
That’s not entirely accurate.

There are times when members of the BRF have chosen to use Mountbatten-Windsor on legal documents - such as Anne’s marriage registry. There are also times when they have chosen to not use Mountbatten-Windsor and stuck with titles - when Charles and Camilla married, he stuck with titles; you only see titles on the birth certificates of William, Beatrice, George, Charlotte, and Louis (I’ve not been able to find Harry or Eugenie’s online).
That is what I meant by "if a surname is required" - although, as you point out, there may have been an element of choice instead of requirement at times.
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  #233  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:20 PM
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Am I correct: Prince Henry is Henry Mountbatten-Windsor. Can he shorten this to Henry/Harry Windsor?
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  #234  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:32 PM
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^^ Prince Harry was referred to as Harry Wales during his military service. Prince George is known as George Cambridge (instead of Prince George) at school. In that respect, Meghan/Harry's children will likely use 'Sussex' as a surname in certain instances.

On occasion, Mountbatten-Windsor is used, as for example by Prince William during the suit he brought and won against newspaper publishers sometime ago. But the royal family is officially designated The House of Windsor, and will continue to be for some time with several male heirs to the throne currently in-waiting. And even if there was a female heir front-and-center (similar to when Queen Elizabeth inherited the throne) the Windsor name would probably be retained.
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  #235  
Old 06-14-2018, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
^^ Prince Harry was referred to as Harry Wales during his military service. Prince George is known as George Cambridge (instead of Prince George) at school. In that respect, Meghan/Harry's children will likely use 'Sussex' as a surname in certain instances.

On occasion, Mountbatten-Windsor is used, as for example by Prince William during the suit he brought and won against newspaper publishers sometime ago. But the royal family is officially designated The House of Windsor, and will continue to be for some time with several male heirs to the throne currently in-waiting. And even if there was a female heir front-and-center (similar to when Queen Elizabeth inherited the throne) the Windsor name would probably be retained.

If Charles wanted, he could change the name of the Royal House because it used to be Saxe-Coburg-Gotha from Edward VII. (after his father Albert, queen Victoria was the last Hanover), then, in 1917 it was changed officially to Windsor with the current queen the last of the Windsors. Elizabeth wanted the House to be known as "Mountbatten-Windsor" for her and Philip's offspring, so I have no doubt that Charles will follow her wish, but "normally" Charles would be the first Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (after Philip's family) on the throne, which is a younger branch of the House of Oldenburg.
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  #236  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
If Charles wanted, he could change the name of the Royal House because it used to be Saxe-Coburg-Gotha from Edward VII. (after his father Albert, queen Victoria was the last Hanover), then, in 1917 it was changed officially to Windsor with the current queen the last of the Windsors. Elizabeth wanted the House to be known as "Mountbatten-Windsor" for her and Philip's offspring, so I have no doubt that Charles will follow her wish, but "normally" Charles would be the first Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (after Philip's family) on the throne, which is a younger branch of the House of Oldenburg.
How fortunately not that 'so not British' mouthful. It's a credit to the royals and to the British government that the name of the British monarchy's Royal House was swiftly changed during the difficult and worrisome time of WWI.

Of course upon inheriting the throne, Charles could adjust the official name of the royal firm. But I seriously doubt that he will.
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  #237  
Old 08-11-2018, 09:28 PM
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In Young Elizabeth The Making of the Queen, Kate Williams wrote:
On the birth of Prince Andrew, it was decided that the name Mountbatten-Windsor was to be used for those not entitled to be called Royal Highness (although in practice these members are referred to only as 'Windsor').
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  #238  
Old 08-12-2018, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
In Young Elizabeth The Making of the Queen, Kate Williams wrote:
On the birth of Prince Andrew, it was decided that the name Mountbatten-Windsor was to be used for those not entitled to be called Royal Highness (although in practice these members are referred to only as 'Windsor').
Not necessarily. IIRC Anne signed her marriage register as Mountbatten Windsor.. Just htat sometimes for brevity, they may drop the first part of the double barrel...
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  #239  
Old 08-12-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
If Charles wanted, he could change the name of the Royal House because it used to be Saxe-Coburg-Gotha from Edward VII. (after his father Albert, queen Victoria was the last Hanover), then, in 1917 it was changed officially to Windsor with the current queen the last of the Windsors. Elizabeth wanted the House to be known as "Mountbatten-Windsor" for her and Philip's offspring,

In 1960, Queen Elizabeth II declared in Council that she and her children would continue to be known as the "House and Family of Windsor", but that her direct descendants, other than those who are HRHs and married female descendants and their respective descendants, would have the name Mountbatten-Windsor. The full text of Her Majesty's declaration is reproduced below.


Quote:
House of Windsor (Feb 8, 1960)

At the Court at Buckingham Palace, The 8th day of February 1960.
Present, the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.
Her Majesty was this day pleased to make the following declaration:
"My Lords
Whereas on the 9th day of April 1952, I did declare in Council My Will and Pleasure that I and My children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that My descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor:
And whereas I have given further consideration to the position of those of My descendants who will enjoy neither the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness, nor the titluar dignity of Prince and for whom therefore a surname will be necessary:
And whereas I have concluded that the Declaration made by Me on the 9th day of April 1952, should be varied in its application to such persons:
Now therefore I declare My Will and Pleasure that, while I and My Children shall continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor.
In practice, it seems that even the Queen's children, when they need to use a surname for any reason, use the family name Mountbatten-Windsor, which seems to be inconsistent with the Queen's declaration that they should continue to be known as the "House and Family of Windsor".


If anything, I believe Charles could rectify that inconsistency making it officially known that the Royal House should be known as the House of Mountbatten-Windsor.
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  #240  
Old 08-12-2018, 08:15 AM
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its not inconsistent.. it is acknowledging Philip while not changing the name of the house and retaining the House of Windsor, which has served the country well...
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