William, Harry, their Girlfriends and the Press

[Mermaid1962]

I wonder how much time William has spent learning about the Church of England, seriously? Has he had discussions with church leaders or his grandmother about what his role is?

Somehow I have the feeling that the more devoted among his age-group--regardless of what church affiliation they are--aren't impressed by the number of times he has emerged from clubs bleary-eyed. When I was his age, I would have been quite disaffected by his image. I would have expected more dignified behaviour.
Believe it or not, I've mellowed with age.

 

[Al_bina]

Thanks for the video clip! The valid points were made by representatives of mass media and paparazzi. However, Mr. Whitaker was overly harsh, when commenting on some members of the British Royal family.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I believe that Mr. Whitaker is thought to be quite pompous.

Thanks for the video clip! The valid points were made by representatives of mass media and paparazzi. However, Mr. Whitaker was overly harsh in his comments on royals.

 

[Principessa Cano]

The excuse that he needs the training because he is one day going to be head of the services, was flattened with this question - He is also expected to be head of the Church of England, so why isn't he spending 5 years studying the priesthood?

That's a question I have been asking for two years now.

 

[kpusa1981]

William especially came in for negative comments, the early (unheard of) award of his wings, (normally takes 77 weeks, William 13)!

Is 77 week just the pilots wings or does that officer training as well? What length is RAF officer training? It seems to me it would been better for both William as a trainee pilot and a junior officer to do at least 33 weeks. Espically since he has ended up doing SAR pilot training course.

 

[muriel]

This may be his next excuse to get out of being a working Prince.

Funnily enough, if Wills had not joined the SAR, I am sure a lot of people and journalists would have been complaining that he did not spend enough time in the armed forces before joining rpyal duties full time! It really seems to be one of those situations where Wills cannot win, either way!

 

[Mermaid1962]

The last two kings were navy men, as is Prince Charles. I can't imagine a king--or for that matter a male HRH--who didn't have some kind of military experience. Prince Edward at least gave it a shot before deciding that it wasn't for him.

Funnily enough, if Wills had not joined the SAR, I am sure a lot of people and journalists would have been complaining that he did not spend enough time in the armed forces before joining rpyal duties full time! It really seems to be one of those situations where Wills cannot win, either way!

 

[Skydragon]

The point is not whether or not William has spent enough time in the forces, but the fact that he was awarded his wings after only 13 weeks of training, as I put it, "not normal practice". It doesn't matter how many times CH or the PR team at the MOD tell us, it was an intensive course, he did not IMO, the spokesperson on the programme and many others in the RAF, (based on chats with bratlings friends) 'earn' his wings.

One of the other points raised about Williams 14 royal engagements last year, (no not that engagement, ), was that 4 were evening events, spending just one hour at 2 events held on the same evening.

Even the Hen Harrier affair was exposed, far from there being no evidence, Natural England & the Crown Prosecution Service had enough evidence but for some reason, it never made it to the courts!

They also raised the cost to the taxpayer for William and Harrys charity bike ride, estimated at 40,000GBP just for the protection. To be fair they did not say whether that included the squads entry fee or not. All their PR team would say was that the princes raised 15000GBP each, but as we know, that was the cost to enter.

The programme covered, in part Andrew, and Edward as well.

They were at pains to point out that although the palace proudly state they are going to be clear and transparent with the public, on more occasions than not, requests for further information were met with a firm NO!

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, definitely not normal practice, as you put it, Skydragon. I was off-point and forgot that we were chatting about the t.v. program. Oops.

The point is not whether or not William has spent enough time in the forces, but the fact that he was awarded his wings after only 13 weeks of training, as I put it, "not normal practice".

 

[Skydragon]

Yes, definitely not normal practice, as you put it, Skydragon. I was off-point and forgot that we were chatting about the t.v. program. Oops.

I wasn't telling you off and I'm sorry if it came across that way! It was a general reply and an answer to James bloomin Whittaker!

 

[Mermaid1962]

No worries, SD. No offence taken. Just explaining myself...as I tend to do.

"James Bloomin' Whittaker" pretty much sums him up. Haha.

I wasn't telling you off and I'm sorry if it came across that way! It was a general reply and an answer to James bloomin Whittaker!

 

[MARG]

I believe that Mr. Whitaker is thought to be quite pompous.

Well . . . let's see, ummm, erm, isn't that a bit like saying Princess Marie is "quite" pregnant?

 

[MARG]

Funnily enough, if Wills had not joined the SAR, I am sure a lot of people and journalists would have been complaining that he did not spend enough time in the armed forces before joining rpyal duties full time! It really seems to be one of those situations where Wills cannot win, either way!

Well let's see!

I can:

A. I can join the family firm, live in a goldfish bowl, shake hands with endless people. I can also bow, smile gritting my teeth, cut endless ribbons and have journo's writing screeds about how I've taken the soft option and should have got a real job! Or,

B. Fly helicopters, save people, have a real job, and get to wear really cool sunnies. And as an added bonus, the endless whining of media about my shirking my "Royal Duties" will be drowned out by the sound of my rotors!

You've got to admit, it's a tough choice. I mean he really is on the horns of a dilemma!

 

[Skydragon]

It amuses me when the media 'demand' they should be performing more royal duties... what exactly. There are only so many openings, ribbon cuttings etc and lets be fair, you have to share them out with the senior royals who are probably the ones invited.

I'm sure everyone would be heartily sick of them if they were performing every day of the week, every month of the year!

Great that they are in the military but please, let them earn their places following normal procedures, (not by using obscure sidesteps, as with William) and by doing so earn some respect.

 

[muriel]

It amuses me when the media 'demand' they should be performing more royal duties... what exactly. There are only so many openings, ribbon cuttings etc and lets be fair, you have to share them out with the senior royals who are probably the ones invited.

I'm sure everyone would be heartily sick of them if they were performing every day of the week, every month of the year!

Great that they are in the military but please, let them earn their places following normal procedures, (not by using obscure sidesteps, as with William) and by doing so earn some respect.

I know you feel strongly about this, but William was never going to have a normal career in the armed forces, just like his father did not. I do think Harry (and Andrew) should play by the rules, because his career should not really be affected by his family backgroud other than in specific circumstances like Afghanistan.

 

[Skydragon]

I do have strong feelings about it. We all knew he would be flitting between services, to 'get a taste', but his recent acceptance on the SARs course would be denied to anyone else who wears spectacles, he got in by using a very obscure rule and the compliance of the MOD. Even if there was some bending going on to accommodate a childhood dream rolleyes, he had no other job to speak of, so why not a 52 week training course for his wings, even that would have been short considering the training others have to go through. It does lead to resentment by other members of the services and it might be these men they have to rely on at some point.

The rules concerning these 2 men, haven't just been bent, they now resemble a corkscrew.

 

[muriel]

I do have strong feelings about it. We all knew he would be flitting between services, to 'get a taste', but his recent acceptance on the SARs course would be denied to anyone else who wears spectacles, he got in by using a very obscure rule and the compliance of the MOD. Even if there was some bending going on to accommodate a childhood dream rolleyes, he had no other job to speak of, so why not a 52 week training course for his wings, even that would have been short considering the training others have to go through. It does lead to resentment by other members of the services and it might be these men they have to rely on at some point.

The rules concerning these 2 men, haven't just been bent, they now resemble a corkscrew.

I really can't comment on the length of training required (12 /52 /77 wks) to get one s wings etc, but it is really for the MoD and the RAF to have an agreed position on this. But I can see your point about there potentially being some resentment amongst other serving officers.

Do you think the rules are being substantially bent for Harry as well?

 

[kimebear]

Maybe the obscure rule that allowed this needs to be changed. You can't really blame William for taking advantage of something that exists.

 

[Menarue]

It is probably an obscure rule that won´t need to be bent until the next generation of royals wanting to get their wings....
It would be like buying a snow plough for a place that gets snow about once every thirty years....

 

[Skydragon]

I really can't comment on the length of training required (12 /52 /77 wks) to get one s wings etc, but it is really for the MoD and the RAF to have an agreed position on this. But I can see your point about there potentially being some resentment amongst other serving officers.

Do you think the rules are being substantially bent for Harry as well?

With regard to the training, it would be the same as suggesting someone who has had a months tuition should be awarded a masters. You get a variety of officers, some are working officers others political, with an eye on a big pension and a rung further up the ladder. The MOD is of course run by a government minister (hoping for a knighthood). It is such an incredibly obscure rule and one has to wonder if it had been good old Lt Smith, whether the transfer of a spectacle wearing officer to the RAF as a pilot would ever have happened.

I believe that the rules were bent for Harry to get onto his training programme, I don't think anyone would deny that he is not the brightest spark, but he is being given the extra tuition I spoke of.

Maybe the obscure rule that allowed this needs to be changed. You can't really blame William for taking advantage of something that exists.

Yes it does need to be changed, as for blaming William, that would be equivalent to suggesting because there was nobody to take payment for the packet of sweets, he was not to blame for slipping them into his pocket without paying. Being a prince should mean you lead by example, taking advantage is not an example I would want any of my children to follow.

 

[Mermaid1962]

As in, "More than just a little bit pompous."

Well . . . let's see, ummm, erm, isn't that a bit like saying Princess Marie is "quite" pregnant?

 

[MARG]

Sorry Mermaid, sometimes humour doesn't travel well. I meant that to say that Whitaker quite pompous just as a woman is a little pregnant.'' Either she is or isn't . . . . there isn't any middle ground, so Whitaker is (to me) obviously a totally pompous prat!

 

[Idriel]

It amuses me when the media 'demand' they should be performing more royal duties... what exactly. There are only so many openings, ribbon cuttings etc and lets be fair, you have to share them out with the senior royals who are probably the ones invited.

I'm sure everyone would be heartily sick of them if they were performing every day of the week, every month of the year!

Well of course Royal engagement are boring, which is why they are mostly ignored by the press.
But Royals are not entertainers so I think that's beside the point.
What matters is that the people they meet are usually happy and honored to be paid a visit by a member of their royal family.

A. I can join the family firm, live in a goldfish bowl, shake hands with endless people. I can also bow, smile gritting my teeth, cut endless ribbons and have journo's writing screeds about how I've taken the soft option and should have got a real job! Or,

B. Fly helicopters, save people, have a real job, and get to wear really cool sunnies. And as an added bonus, the endless whining of media about my shirking my "Royal Duties" will be drowned out by the sound of my rotors!

Journalists would certainly not slag William for doing royal duties. He is a Royal and that is what he is expected to do.

If anything, he is perceived to be mostly playing toy soldier so it's his military career which causes the most criticism.
And yes, a royal engagement is often a very dull event for the royal ('And what do you do?) but that is the price they have to pay for their status and humongous privileges in life.
Meeting and greeting is how they earn their keep. It's not extravagant to expect them to do it.

 

[Mermaid1962]

It's okay, Marg...I got you the first time. Hence my "wink."

Sorry Mermaid, sometimes humour doesn't travel well. I meant that to say that Whitaker quite pompous just as a woman is a little pregnant.'' Either she is or isn't . . . . there isn't any middle ground, so Whitaker is (to me) obviously a totally pompous prat!

 

[kimebear]

Yes it does need to be changed, as for blaming William, that would be equivalent to suggesting because there was nobody to take payment for the packet of sweets, he was not to blame for slipping them into his pocket without paying. Being a prince should mean you lead by example, taking advantage is not an example I would want any of my children to follow.

That is hardly a fair comparison. You can't equate something illegal like the theft of a packet of sweets to William taking advantage of an existing rule that could have been used by non royal others in the same position. This is a straw man argument.

 

[Skydragon]

That is hardly a fair comparison. You can't equate something illegal like the theft of a packet of sweets to William taking advantage of an existing rule that could have been used by non royal others in the same position..

Slightly unfair perhaps but in reality, he has possibly stolen the place of someone better qualified for the job. He is now seen as a cheat, who will use any and every loophole to get what he wants. As far as I an aware, which only consists of asking people I know in the RAF, the loophole has never been accepted before.

Lets face it, it just doesn't look good .... he was awarded his wings earlier than has ever been heard of, he failed to tell the truth to his CO regarding the flights in the helicopters, he allowed his immediate superiors to take the blame for said flights and then apparently cheats his way onto a SAR pilots course. None of which are recommendations for a future king or an officer. All IMO of course.

 

[Idriel]

Lets face it, it just doesn't look good .... he was awarded his wings earlier than has ever been heard of, he failed to tell the truth to his CO regarding the flights in the helicopters, he allowed his immediate superiors to take the blame for said flights and then apparently cheats his way onto a SAR pilots course. None of which are recommendations for a future king or an officer. All IMO of course.

Agreed completely.

 

[Menarue]

Slightly unfair perhaps but in reality, he has possibly stolen the place of someone better qualified for the job. He is now seen as a cheat, who will use any and every loophole to get what he wants. As far as I an aware, which only consists of asking people I know in the RAF, the loophole has never been accepted before.

Lets face it, it just doesn't look good .... he was awarded his wings earlier than has ever been heard of, he failed to tell the truth to his CO regarding the flights in the helicopters, he allowed his immediate superiors to take the blame for said flights and then apparently cheats his way onto a SAR pilots course. None of which are recommendations for a future king or an officer. All IMO of course.

Hear hear.

 

[kimebear]

Slightly unfair perhaps but in reality, he has possibly stolen the place of someone better qualified for the job. He is now seen as a cheat, who will use any and every loophole to get what he wants. As far as I an aware, which only consists of asking people I know in the RAF, the loophole has never been accepted before.

Lets face it, it just doesn't look good .... he was awarded his wings earlier than has ever been heard of, he failed to tell the truth to his CO regarding the flights in the helicopters, he allowed his immediate superiors to take the blame for said flights and then apparently cheats his way onto a SAR pilots course. None of which are recommendations for a future king or an officer. All IMO of course.

I think I would be more concerned with the place he "possibly stole" if he was making a career out of the military instead of just getting an overall experience of it. The place will still be there later when he acquires full time royal responsibilities.

 

[Skydragon]

I think I would be more concerned with the place he "possibly stole" if he was making a career out of the military instead of just getting an overall experience of it. The place will still be there later when he acquires full time royal responsibilities.

He is, for the time being, making it his career, that is why he has signed on for the minimum three years with SARs.

"The place will still be there"

I'm afraid it doesn't quite work like that in the RAF, in three years the person who was potentially pushed aside may be too old to start the training, (as William is incidentally), he may have decided to leave, after all it might have been his childhood dream to make a full time career out of it or he might have been 'encouraged' to take on another trade, where he will be unhappily employed until he can get out. The RAF or any military arm isn't the same as working at Walmart or any office!

If William has no intention of making a full time career out of the RAF, it is a massive waste of time, resources and, (that old chestnut), taxpayers money!