What names do they use for their official documents?

[Anfisa]

This crossed my mind the other day. The princes obviously have passports/drivers licenses/student IDs and stuff like that. I wonder what names they use on it. Like would their surname be "Wales"? Even after William was made the Duke of Cambridge? Or would their surname be "Windsor"? Would the title of "HRH Prince..." be included in their names? Just a thought.

 

[Lumutqueen]

William used William Wales in School I believe, same for Henry.

So it's either that for passports an such or Prince William with the surname Wales perhaps.

 

[Osipi]

I found it interesting to learn that when filing a lawsuit in France (because of the invasion of privacy taking long lens pictures of Kate), William and Kate used William Mountbatten-Windsor and Kate used Catherine Middleton. Females use their maiden names I guess and William's titles and "of" designations (Wales or Cambridge) aren't recognized in France.

 

[LadyFinn]

Prince Carl Philip's driving licence (with HRH prince Carl Philip), he lost his wallet some years ago, a couple found it and gave the story to the press.
Hittade prinsens plånbok

 

[Skippy]

Well, it guess it depends on what one's intentions are. Giving your story to the press or giving the wallet to the police without the blabbing.
A prince (or anyone else well-known) losing his wallet is one thing, but to zoom in on it by bringing it to the press is another. I think it's tasteless, but I guess they got their 15 minutes of fame ("Look what we found!").

 

[Ish]

This crossed my mind the other day. The princes obviously have passports/drivers licenses/student IDs and stuff like that. I wonder what names they use on it. Like would their surname be "Wales"? Even after William was made the Duke of Cambridge? Or would their surname be "Windsor"? Would the title of "HRH Prince..." be included in their names? Just a thought.

I think it really depends on the country, the individual, and the instance.

For example, while in school William went by William Wales. He also used this name in the military (I don't know if he used Wales or Cambridge in the EAAA, but I would bet it's one of the two).

When he and Kate filed the lawsuit in France, William used William Mountbatten-Windsor.

When he filed the registration for George's birth, he used His Royal Highness Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cambridge.

I can't remember how he signed his marriage certificate.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I don't think we actually saw his marriage certificate.

I agree it depends on the different countries about how they would style themselves on things like passports but I do seem to remember that Diana's passport had her as HRH The Princess of Wales at one point in the 1980s so I suspect that they use their official titles for passports.

The Queen doesn't have a passport and Philip's is numbered 1. He took over that number from the Queen Mum when George VI died and he became the Consort of the Monarch.

 

[Ish]

You can find photos of Diana's 1980s passport and it does have her title listed.

I found a photo of William's birth certificate and it lists his full title (no territorial designation), Charles' full HRH Prince Charles etc, PoW, and Diana's HRH The PssoW (no given name).

https://www.deedpolloffice.com/images/birth_certificate_prince_william_1982.v1.128.crush.jpg

 

[Osipi]

I remember too that when George and Charlotte were born, when William registered the births, he put "Princess of the UK" as Kate's occupation.

 

[Denville]

I remember too that when George and Charlotte were born, when William registered the births, he put "Princess of the UK" as Kate's occupation.

well he has to give her SOME occupation title! I did not think that usualy royals like William use the surname of Mountbatten Windsor. If he abdicated, it would problaby be his surname.. Edwards children use it because they are not usng the titles prince and Princess

 

[Osipi]

well he has to give her SOME occupation title! I did not think that usualy royals like William use the surname of Mountbatten Windsor. If he abdicated, it would problaby be his surname.. Edwards children use it because they are not usng the titles prince and Princess

It was set up by LP in 1960.

At the Court at Buckingham Palace, The 8th day of February 1960.
Present, the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.

Her Majesty was this day pleased to make the following declaration:

"My Lords

Whereas on the 9th day of April 1952, I did declare in Council My Will and Pleasure that I and My children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that My descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor:
And whereas I have given further consideration to the position of those of My descendants who will enjoy neither the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness, nor the titluar dignity of Prince and for whom therefore a surname will be necessary:

And whereas I have concluded that the Declaration made by Me on the 9th day of April 1952, should be varied in its application to such persons:
Now therefore I declare My Will and Pleasure that, while I and My Children shall continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor,

My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor."

(London Gazette, issue 41948, Feb. 8, 1960, p. 1/1003. See also the Times Feb 9, 1960 p. 10E.)

For the most part, William does not require a surname. In France he did for the reason being that the French legal system does not acknowledge British titles and styles. With that being the case, the LP of 1960 came into play and William used Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[Skippyboo]

Even with his abdication, Edward VIII was not just Mr Edward Windsor. He was HRH The Prince Edward right after the abdication. The LPs for the Dukedom were officially done a couple of months later.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Spheno]

I remember too that when George and Charlotte were born, when William registered the births, he put "Princess of the UK" as Kate's occupation.

As you can see in William's birth certificate Prince Charles also put "Prince of the UK" as his occupation. It's a tradition. Evrery time British royals fill such documents they put "Prince/Princess of the UK" their occupation.

http://i39.tinypic.com/bvkte.jpg
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos...f-prince-charles-and-lady-picture-id109326899

 

[Skippyboo]

William's birth registration didn't even have a space for occupation for the mother so there have been some progress in the years since.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[AdmirerUS]

I cannot remember where, but this has been discussed at length elsewhere in TRF. The DM did a piece on this around the time of Charlotte's birth IIRC and we wrote more than a bit on the name topic.

You can actually see a number of these kinds of registry documents in the DM piece or try prince william marriage certificate search (I used google) to see a collection of official docs from the family. Try it, it's kinda fun!

 

[Lisele]

I found it interesting to learn that when filing a lawsuit in France (because of the invasion of privacy taking long lens pictures of Kate), William and Kate used William Mountbatten-Windsor and Kate used Catherine Middleton. Females use their maiden names I guess and William's titles and "of" designations (Wales or Cambridge) aren't recognized in France.

Somebody from France correct me if I'm wrong - I always thought French women retained their maiden name when they married. Could this be why the Duchess of Cambridge had to use Catherine Middleton instead of Catherine Mountbatten-Windsor?

 

[Countessmeout]

Somebody from France correct me if I'm wrong - I always thought French women retained their maiden name when they married. Could this be why the Duchess of Cambridge had to use Catherine Middleton instead of Catherine Mountbatten-Windsor?

Okay taking this from time magazine which seems a reasonable source, France indeed is a country where a woman doesn't take her husband's last name. Been a law since the 1700s that a person can't change name from their birth certificate. Well not legally, they can use it in private as form of address, but not legally.
http://time.com/3940094/maiden-married-names-countries/

 

[QueenPenny]

Okay taking this from time magazine which seems a reasonable source, France indeed is a country where a woman doesn't take her husband's last name. Been a law since the 1700s that a person can't change name from their birth certificate. Well not legally, they can use it in private as form of address, but not legally.
Maiden Names: Here Are Places Women Can't Take Their Husband's Name | Time.com

I am from Louisiana which follows Napoleonic law in many state matters. Several years ago, I gave my PoA to my mother so she could act on my behalf regarding an inheritance since I had moved out of state and was not available to travel the several times that the matter would entail. Anyway, the PoA had my maiden name on them, and my FIL, who is an attorney in La, confirmed that my birth name is considered my legal name in the state of LA. I had no idea! I was just grateful that my driver's license had both my maiden & married names on it so I didn't have to get my birth certificate & marriage license out of the safe deposit box in order to get the document notarized.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Okay taking this from time magazine which seems a reasonable source, France indeed is a country where a woman doesn't take her husband's last name. Been a law since the 1700s that a person can't change name from their birth certificate. Well not legally, they can use it in private as form of address, but not legally.
Maiden Names: Here Are Places Women Can't Take Their Husband's Name | Time.com

In daily life the spouse of Monsieur Dubois is Madame Dubois. But indeed, when a lady whishes to be known with her maiden name, this will be used.

Example: I seldom see Mme Anne-Aymone Sauvage de Brantes, Mme Bernadette Chodron de Courcel or Mme Brigitte Trogneux used: they are all better known as Mme Giscard d'Estaing, Mme Chirac and Mme Macron.

Mme Ségolène Royal indeed was the mother of President Hollande's four children but the couple never married (they considered the idea of marriage "bourgeois"). Mme Carla Bruni kept her surname (with the addition of Sarkozy). Undoubtedly because she was already a well-known celebrity person on her own before she married M Nicolas Sarkozy.

 

[Countessmeout]

In daily life the spouse of Monsieur Dubois is Madame Dubois. But indeed, when a lady whishes to be known with her maiden name, this will be used.

Example: I seldom see Mme Anne-Aymone Sauvage de Brantes, Mme Bernadette Chodron de Courcel or Mme Brigitte Trogneux used: they are all better known as Mme Giscard d'Estaing, Mme Chirac and Mme Macron.

Mme Ségolène Royal indeed was the mother of President Hollande's four children but the couple never married (they considered the idea of marriage "bourgeois"). Mme Carla Bruni kept her surname (with the addition of Sarkozy). Undoubtedly because she was already a well-known celebrity person on her own before she married M Nicolas Sarkozy.

It's not about wishes. It's about law.

Legally Carla Bruni is Carla Bruni. Legally she cannot add Sarkozy to her name. It's illegal in France to alter your name.

By Custom women can Choose to be addressed by their husbands name. Carla chooses to be addressed as both. But legally she is not. Legally on all documents she is dimply Bruni. As is any woman in France.

Napoleonic law still in place.

 

[assia]

It's not about wishes. It's about law.



Legally Carla Bruni is Carla Bruni. Legally she cannot add Sarkozy to her name. It's illegal in France to alter your name.



By Custom women can Choose to be addressed by their husbands name. Carla chooses to be addressed as both. But legally she is not. Legally on all documents she is dimply Bruni. As is any woman in France.



Napoleonic law still in place.

Excuse me but this is wrong I am French married and my name is legally my husband’s name

 

[Tatiana Maria]

According to the French government, usage of the name of the spouse is authoraized on certain official documents, but it does not replace the legal name.

Nom d'usage : utilisation du nom de sa femme ou de son mari | service-public.fr

 

[Mbruno]

This crossed my mind the other day. The princes obviously have passports/drivers licenses/student IDs and stuff like that. I wonder what names they use on it. Like would their surname be "Wales"? Even after William was made the Duke of Cambridge? Or would their surname be "Windsor"? Would the title of "HRH Prince..." be included in their names? Just a thought.

I would assume HRH Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cambridge. He doesn’t use a last name.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

This is how Wallis, Duchess of Windsor signed a signature on November 9, 1946
http://img.carters.com.au/e767a255e45932ac06899660b78a444a.jpg

 

[Tatiana Maria]

This is how Wallis, Duchess of Windsor signed a signature on November 9, 1946
http://img.carters.com.au/e767a255e45932ac06899660b78a444a.jpg

Interesting. I have always read that the Duke of Windsor never accepted his brother's decision that his wife was not permitted to share his rank, and instructed others to address his wife as a Royal Highness. But "Wallis Windsor" is a signature characteristic of a non-royal duchess, whereas a royal duchess/princess would by convention sign as simply "Wallis".

 

[Prinsara]

Interesting. I have always read that the Duke of Windsor never accepted his brother's decision that his wife was not permitted to share his rank, and instructed others to address his wife as a Royal Highness. But "Wallis Windsor" is a signature characteristic of a non-royal duchess, whereas a royal duchess/princess would by convention sign as simply "Wallis".

He didn't accept it. That's not to say she didn't understand the reality of the situation.

 

[Denville]

It was only in private that he insisted that she be treated as a royal duchess, with the servants treating her as such adn calling her YRH

 

[An Ard Ri]

This is how Wallis, Duchess of Windsor signed a signature on November 9, 1946
http://img.carters.com.au/e767a255e45932ac06899660b78a444a.jpg

Wallis Windsor instead of just Wallis!

 

[Mbruno]

Wikipedia has a copy of the marriage certificate of Princess Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh .

If I read it correctly, the signatures of the witnesses seem to be as follows:

1) King George VI: George R

2) Queen Elizabeth (later The Queen Mother): Elizabeth R

3) Queen Mary: Mary R

4) Prince Philip's mother: Alice, Princess Andrew of Greece

5) Princess Margaret: Margaret

6) Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester: Henry

7) The Duchess of Gloucester: Alice

8) Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent: Marina

9) Lady Patricia Ramsay: Patricia Ramsay

8) Sir Alexander Ramsay: Alexander Ramsay (?)

9) Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone: Alice Mary

10) The Earl of Athlone: Athlone

11) Victoria, Marchioness of Milford Haven: Victoria Milford Haven

12) The Marchioness of Milford Haven: Nadjeda (?) Milford Haven

13) The Archbishop of Canterbury: Geoffrey Cantuar

14) The Dean of Westminster: Alan C. Don Dean

15) The Countess Mountbatten of Burma: Edwina Mountbatten of Burma

16) The Earl Mountbatten of Burma: Mountbatten of Burma

17) King Haakon VII of Norway: Haakon R

18) King Michael I if Romania: Michael R

19) Ingrid, Queen Consort of Denmark: Ingrid (?)

20) King Frederik IX of Denmark: Frederik R


The bride and groom, identified as "Philip Mountbatten" and "Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor" signed respectively "Philip" and "Elizabeth", rank or profession: "H.R.H. The Duke of Edinburgh K.G" and "Princess of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland".

The bride's father is recorded as "Albert Frederick Arthur George Windsor", rank or profession: "H.M. King George VI of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas; Defender of the Faith".

It is quite interesting actually.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Interesting, thanks. So the customs of using surnames, and of listing the royal status as "profession", on British royal marriage certificates goes back quite a long time.