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  #1761  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don't think the balcony appearance follows strict precedence, except the Queen, the Cambridges and the Prince of Wales being front and center (not quite the case for the PoW this year though).

Prince Charles looks front and center to me.


https://www.glamour.com/story/5-of-t...the-color-2018


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Personally, I think it is too many people to be on the balcony at the same time. There is no need for the entire extended family to come out with the "Mountbatten-Windsors". Yes, technically, from the patrilineal point of view, they are at least two different families, if not several different families if you count the Phillips, or the Mowatts, or the Gilmans, etc. as separate families from both the Windsors (male-line descendants of George V) and the Mountbatten-Windsors (male-line descendants of Prince Philip).

I disagree and obviously so does the Queen. And the Phillips, Mowatt children and Gilmans are not separate families. There are individual smaller immediate family groups but they are all part of the greater Windsor family. I'm always happy to see the extended family.
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  #1762  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:13 PM
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In talking about the size of the family on the balcony, I can not help but imagine what the family would look like if Edward had remained King and John had been healthy. There could be the descendants of 5 brothers on the balcony rather than 3.

It is always interesting to speculate on how things would be different if the abdication had not happened. Is there a thread for that?
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  #1763  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
That or Charles may choose to do what his mother does- the descendents of his grandfather. So his siblings and their families, and the Chatto/Lindleys. We haven't seen Margaret's family the past few years, but we may see again.

I think as long as the Kents and Gloucesters continue to work for the family, even if under Charles, the couples will likely appear. But just them.

Under that scenario (daughters of the monarch and families are not included) then I wouldn't expect to see the Phillips family, but they are always there.
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  #1764  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess Larisa View Post

The Duke has prepared for #TroopingTheColour by riding both at Windsor Castle and during two parades in London. Before this, the last time HRH rode was in Argentina in 1992!
https://twitter.com/TheDukeOfYork/st...78992168407041
Hmmm… Putting this in context, I suspect that last time Andrew was on a horse was while visiting his mother-in-law who was married to an Argentinian polo player.

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Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
Glad to hear that Lord Guthrie is recovering. Now I appreciate that the Duke of Kent gave up riding in the parade after suffering his stroke.
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  #1765  
Old 06-10-2018, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Under that scenario (daughters of the monarch and families are not included) then I wouldn't expect to see the Phillips family, but they are always there.
Uh under what scenario

I said the descendents of his grandfather. I didn't say male line descendants. I am as much a descendant of my grandfather as my male cousins are.

Princess Mary is the only one who that hasn't applied to. Margaret and her children. Alexandra and her children. Anne and her children. The female descendants have always had a place on the balcony. I see nothing about my post which would suggest that it would be limited to male line.
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  #1766  
Old 06-10-2018, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
“Revealed: How Harry reassured 'nervous' Meghan at her first Trooping the Colour ceremony (before reminding her to 'look up to the sky' during the flypast)”

Prince Harry asked Meghan Markle if she was OK at Trooping the Colour | Daily Mail Online

A lip reader was employed to get the lowdown between Meghan and Harry.
I don’t know why the media have to make it seem like Meghan was nervous. Harry was just explaining the parading to her. She was busy enjoying the Trooping, the flyover and the view from the balcony.
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  #1767  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Prince Charles looks front and center to me.


https://www.glamour.com/story/5-of-t...the-color-2018





I disagree and obviously so does the Queen. And the Phillips, Mowatt children and Gilmans are not separate families. There are individual smaller immediate family groups but they are all part of the greater Windsor family. I'm always happy to see the extended family.
Sorry, but if they have different family names (aka surnames), then they belong to different families, which goes back to my question about where a given family ends.

Just to add food for thought, the Mowatt girls and Prince William have the same degree of kinship, I think, as Queen Elizabeth II and, for example, Queen Margrethe Ii, King Carl XVI Gustaf or King Juan Carlos . So, if William and the Mowatt girls belong to the same family, so do all of the above and Queen Elizabeth II. Of course, that would be an absurd conclusion.
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  #1768  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle View Post
In talking about the size of the family on the balcony, I can not help but imagine what the family would look like if Edward had remained King and John had been healthy. There could be the descendants of 5 brothers on the balcony rather than 3.

It is always interesting to speculate on how things would be different if the abdication had not happened. Is there a thread for that?
Edward VIII, if he still married Wallis Simpson, would never have children, so nothing would change in practice in the long run. If Edward and Wallis had had children, they would have been excluded from the Succession by the abdication act , but I could imagine some neo-Jacobite or “Edwardite” movement arising among a minority who would claim that Edward’s issue should inherit the Crown over Elizabeth and her issue.
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  #1769  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Sorry, but if they have different family names (aka surnames), then they belong to different families, which goes back to my question about where a given family ends.

Just to add food for thought, the Mowatt girls and Prince William have the same degree of kinship, I think, as Queen Elizabeth II and, for example, Queen Margrethe Ii, King Carl XVI Gustaf or King Juan Carlos . So, if William and the Mowatt girls belong to the same family, so do all of the above and Queen Elizabeth II. Of course, that would be an absurd conclusion.
Degree of kinship and family names are two very different ways to define a family. For example Maud Windsor and Lord Culloden share the same degree of kinship (they are third cousins) with William and Zenouska Mowatt but do share the same surname as male line descendants of king George V.

So yes, according to the patriarchical system Xan and Maud belong to the same family but Zenouska and William don't (unless passing on the moyher's surname would keep you in that family) while Zenouska and Maud are far closer related as they are cousins once removed.

I don't think the queen mother would have been willing to say that her grandchildren by Margaret were not part of her family while her grandchildren by Elizabeth were...

All in all, it depends a lot on the perspective. For royal purposes it was much clearer in the past: a bride would go over to her husband's family but now the succession is gender neutral (or even when it was male preference, so women were not excluded) that would be much harder to argue.
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  #1770  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Edward VIII, if he still married Wallis Simpson, would never have children, so nothing would change in practice in the long run. If Edward and Wallis had had children, they would have been excluded from the Succession by the abdication act , but I could imagine some neo-Jacobite or “Edwardite” movement arising among a minority who would claim that Edward’s issue should inherit the Crown over Elizabeth and her issue.
In my scenario John is healthy and grows to have children. Edward becomes King and has children. He never meets Wallis. It is a simple scenario. Each of the five brothers has two to three children and a wife. Imagine the number to fit on the balcony.
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  #1771  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Degree of kinship and family names are two very different ways to define a family. For example Maud Windsor and Lord Culloden share the same degree of kinship (they are third cousins) with William and Zenouska Mowatt but do share the same surname as male line descendants of king George V.

So yes, according to the patriarchical system Xan and Maud belong to the same family but Zenouska and William don't (unless passing on the moyher's surname would keep you in that family) while Zenouska and Maud are far closer related as they are cousins once removed.

I don't think the queen mother would have been willing to say that her grandchildren by Margaret were not part of her family while her grandchildren by Elizabeth were...

All in all, it depends a lot on the perspective. For royal purposes it was much clearer in the past: a bride would go over to her husband's family but now the succession is gender neutral (or even when it was male preference, so women were not excluded) that would be much harder to argue.
Xan and Maud belong to the Windsor family; William belongs to the Mountbatten-Windsor family; Zenouska belongs to the Mowatt family. That is pretty straightforward to me.

Having more than one family on the balcony is OK though if it makes sense based on degree of Kinship. For example, Peter and Zara, although members of the Phillips family, should be on the balcony because they are the Queen’s grandchildren. Even when Charles is King, they should be invited too, as the children of the king’s sister. What I fail to see is the rationale to have third cousins on the balcony.

BTW, my examples above (re: Margrethe II, Carl Gustaf and Juan Carlos) were deliberate not only in terms of degree of kinship, but also because they all descend from Queen Victoria in maternal line , so they would not share the family name Saxe-Coburg and Gotha with Queen Elizabeth II ( if the Queen used it rather than Windsor of course).
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  #1772  
Old 06-10-2018, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I don’t know why the media have to make it seem like Meghan was nervous. Harry was just explaining the parading to her. She was busy enjoying the Trooping, the flyover and the view from the balcony.
Right. It seemed like Meghan was enjoying her first time on BP balcony with her new family, after some restful downtime with Prince Harry in an undisclosed locale.

We all know that Daily Fail's blaring is proof of nothing. The pictures on the site are the only thing that make clicking on it worthwhile.
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  #1773  
Old 06-10-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Sorry, but if they have different family names (aka surnames), then they belong to different families, which goes back to my question about where a given family ends.

Just to add food for thought, the Mowatt girls and Prince William have the same degree of kinship, I think, as Queen Elizabeth II and, for example, Queen Margrethe Ii, King Carl XVI Gustaf or King Juan Carlos . So, if William and the Mowatt girls belong to the same family, so do all of the above and Queen Elizabeth II. Of course, that would be an absurd conclusion.
I am as much a member of my mother's family as I am my father's family.
(in fact family reunion this summer-the children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and even a few great great grandchildren of my late grandparents-possible 96+ people or more) Very few of us have my grandfather's last name. In fact, only 7 men and 4 wives of all those people have his last name.

We are talking of Windsors descended from George V at the moment, not all the descendants of Queen Victoria. The Queen obviously considers these people her family.



FYI-there is only one Mowatt girl, Zenouska--and she spends a lot of time with her Uncle James's family. She does have a brother, Christian.
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  #1774  
Old 06-11-2018, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
We all know that Daily Fail's blaring is proof of nothing. The pictures on the site are the only thing that make clicking on it worthwhile.
The article about Meghan being nervous and analysing what Harry said to her didn't originate with the Daily Mail though, it links at the bottom of its article to the source of the information - the Daily Mirror. This is something all the newspapers do - cover each others stories while linking to the original.

This is not aimed at you in particular, but can we stop with this "Daily Fail" nonsense? This nickname was funny for about 10 minutes back in 2010. Everyone knows not to believe everything they read in the Mail at this point.

Its enormous articles with truly amazing pictures make the DM a really valuable source for royal watchers, no other publication provides readers with anything even approaching it. I'm happy to skip the text parts to admire the pictures which most people do also.
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  #1775  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:27 AM
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Hilarious! Harry has to remind Meghan to look up to the sky during the flypast. I am surprised this simple task needs explaining.
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  #1776  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I am as much a member of my mother's family as I am my father's family.
(in fact family reunion this summer-the children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and even a few great great grandchildren of my late grandparents-possible 96+ people or more) Very few of us have my grandfather's last name. In fact, only 7 men and 4 wives of all those people have his last name.

We are talking of Windsors descended from George V at the moment, not all the descendants of Queen Victoria. The Queen obviously considers these people her family.



FYI-there is only one Mowatt girl, Zenouska--and she spends a lot of time with her Uncle James's family. She does have a brother, Christian.
The Queen even considers The Lady Saltoun a member of the Royal family so in that light it would be strange if she did not include the Mowatts
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  #1777  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:46 AM
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surprised this simple task needs explaining.
Because of Lord Guthrie's accident, the appearance on the Balcony was rather more rushed than usual.. with just seconds between sorting out positions and the first planes going overhead.
Given the novelty of the experience for the Duchess, and the kaleidoscope of newness before her- squeezed up new family, vast and deafening crowds below.. it isn't surprising at all.
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  #1778  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
“Revealed: How Harry reassured 'nervous' Meghan at her first Trooping the Colour ceremony (before reminding her to 'look up to the sky' during the flypast)”

Prince Harry asked Meghan Markle if she was OK at Trooping the Colour | Daily Mail Online

A lip reader was employed to get the lowdown between Meghan and Harry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Hilarious! Harry has to remind Meghan to look up to the sky during the flypast. I am surprised this simple task needs explaining.
I’m sorry but so many of these so-called “lip readers” are inaccurate in their readings, so...
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  #1779  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Reem View Post
I’m sorry but so many of these so-called “lip readers” are inaccurate in their readings, so...
That is true. I have a couple of friends who are pretty good at lip reading but they do best with people they are familiar with and who look directly at them while speaking, yet they still have to have things repeated.

I was more curious about the animated conversation between Charles and Harry than I was about what Harry supposedly said to Meghan.
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  #1780  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
That is true. I have a couple of friends who are pretty good at lip reading but they do best with people they are familiar with and who look directly at them while speaking, yet they still have to have things repeated.

I was more curious about the animated conversation between Charles and Harry than I was about what Harry supposedly said to Meghan.
I can attest to this being taught lip reading as a young child to assist with a hearing loss. Studies show that only about 30 to 45 percent of the English language can be understood through lip reading alone. Lip reading is a tool to assist in understanding the spoken word rather than 100% accurate by itself.

Those that claim to "lip read" without sound cannot be 100% accurate at all.
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