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  #1481  
Old 06-06-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Precedence says that the children of the monarch are more senior and more front and centre than the grandchildren so it should be William and Kate and Harry and Meghan who are pushed to the side so the Queen can be surrounded by her children.

Meghan has married a largely minor royal these days and should be treated accordingly - in the back and to the side and certainly not to the front or centre. That belongs to the Queen and her immediate family - not the grandchildren who will only move further and further from the throne as the years pass and in 20 or so years will be even more irrelevant to the future of the monarchy than they are now (thanks to William having three children).

The image of the BRF that is shown on the balcony is an increasingly large family. If they want to connect properly with the public they need to make that appearance far more streamlined - the monarch and spouse, the children of the monarch and their spouses and the heir apparent's heir apparent and spouse and that should be all. No need for other grandchildren, great-grandchildren or cousins etc to be there at all.

One person we can be sure want be there is Zara who surely should be having the baby soon - if she hasn't already had the baby and simply not announced it yet.
Should ...I don't think they are operating on the premise of 'what should happen' all the time.

Meghan/Harry are not being treated at minor royals ..they are (along with William/Kate) being presented as if Charles is the King. Charles' siblings are being presented as secondary.



LaRae
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  #1482  
Old 06-06-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
For all our talk as observers about the meaning and importance of exact placement on the balcony, looking back through photos of the past five or six years makes me question whether the BRF puts as much thought into it as we do. Beyond the basic rules of (1) Queen in the center, (2) Charles and William very visible and (3) kids up front, there doesn't really seem to be a great organizing principal beyond having the Gloucesters go through one side door, the Kents through another, and the Mountbatten-Windsors (for lack of better term) through the center.

For example, if you look back through the past few years of positions for Anne, Edward, Kate and Harry you'll find all of them have had times when they were right by the Queen but behind her (which, in Anne's case, made her almost invisible last year) and others where they were very visible in the front but practically standing with the cousins.
No, there’s not much of a organization to the whole thing at all. It’s pretty much down to who get into front position first. After The Queen and Philip, Charles, Camilla and Cambridge’s with Harry and Meghan, everyone else shuffle to one side to make a little room for some.
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  #1483  
Old 06-06-2018, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Precedence says that the children of the monarch are more senior and more front and centre than the grandchildren so it should be William and Kate and Harry and Meghan who are pushed to the side so the Queen can be surrounded by her children.

Meghan has married a largely minor royal these days and should be treated accordingly - in the back and to the side and certainly not to the front or centre. That belongs to the Queen and her immediate family - not the grandchildren who will only move further and further from the throne as the years pass and in 20 or so years will be even more irrelevant to the future of the monarchy than they are now (thanks to William having three children).

The image of the BRF that is shown on the balcony is an increasingly large family. If they want to connect properly with the public they need to make that appearance far more streamlined - the monarch and spouse, the children of the monarch and their spouses and the heir apparent's heir apparent and spouse and that should be all. No need for other grandchildren, great-grandchildren or cousins etc to be there at all.

One person we can be sure want be there is Zara who surely should be having the baby soon - if she hasn't already had the baby and simply not announced it yet.
Although within the next decade, Harry will be as important as Anne, Andrew or Edward are currently in your illustration--the child/immediate family of the monarch. So no, Harry is not a minor royal.
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  #1484  
Old 06-06-2018, 09:47 PM
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I think we need to remember that it is not just Trooping the Colour but also the official observance of the Queen's Birthday. That means, regardless of what we may think or want, it is what HM wants that counts.

She wants her family there to share the occasion. I believe she also treats it as an opportunity for the country to see the largely overlooked hard workers of that family. The Gloucester's, the Kent's, Princess Alexandra, all her children, etc.

I think HM is very proud of her family, ALL of her family and yes its crowded on the balcony, yes it's disorganised, it is essentially a family with all its attendant chaos.

But we have to remember, it is HM's chaos and she loves it! If the birthday girl can't have what she wants, then who can?
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  #1485  
Old 06-06-2018, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Should ...I don't think they are operating on the premise of 'what should happen' all the time.

Meghan/Harry are not being treated at minor royals ..they are (along with William/Kate) being presented as if Charles is the King. Charles' siblings are being presented as secondary.



LaRae
And I think it’s done for the purpose of continuation. We know that the Queen is a symbol of continuity and stability. We are seeing a transition here in preparation for King Charles III and when the public loose that continuity and stability. Having the major supporting actors at that point front and center now does offer, in its own way, a new sense of continuity and minimizes disruption.
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  #1486  
Old 06-06-2018, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I think we need to remember that it is not just Trooping the Colour but also the official observance of the Queen's Birthday. That means, regardless of what we may think or want, it is what HM wants that counts.

She wants her family there to share the occasion. I believe she also treats it as an opportunity for the country to see the largely overlooked hard workers of that family. The Gloucester's, the Kent's, Princess Alexandra, all her children, etc.

I think HM is very proud of her family, ALL of her family and yes its crowded on the balcony, yes it's disorganised, it is essentially a family with all its attendant chaos.

But we have to remember, it is HM's chaos and she loves it! If the birthday girl can't have what she wants, then who can?
Very true- I think some people have overlooked the fact that it is a celebration of the Queen's birthday-so in that sense it is a family occasion. And therefore makes perfect sense to have the extended Royal family there.
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  #1487  
Old 06-06-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
And I think it’s done for the purpose of continuation. We know that the Queen is a symbol of continuity and stability. We are seeing a transition here in preparation for King Charles III and when the public loose that continuity and stability. Having the major supporting actors at that point front and center now does offer, in its own way, a new sense of continuity and minimizes disruption.

Yes ...and with the increasing ages of the Queen's children..a way for them to slow down IF they wanted to...but no signs of that happening yet.


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  #1488  
Old 06-06-2018, 11:06 PM
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Her kids are aging and could slow down?? I see that happening. Mum I know you are 92 and working as hard as ever, but I am going to retire now. I know I am only 58 (54, 67, 70).

The only one who is above retirement age, other then the future king, is Anne and she is too much like both her parents. She will work till unable to.

I say this every year. What is wrong with the entire family up there??? Does it matter if there are 2 people or 200 people? There is no extra cost. They aren't paying them to be up there. There is no more security needed for them to be up there. People saying they 'want it streamlined' keep arguing it will cost less (which outside of security isn't true at all. The sovereigns grant wont decrease because there are fewer royals to support, just means less work being don for the same or more money).

It is the queen's birthday. She chooses to have her entire family there. I see no reason to complain. Her cousins have supporter her for decades, when her kids were small and on. She chooses to continue to use them, and include them in these events. And their family.

When Charles is king, it will be his celebration of his birthday, and his family. I think we will still see his siblings, and likely their kids. When William is king, possibly will just be his family, Harry and his family.


Laughing at the concept that Harry is a 'minor royal'. He is a full time working senior royal. He may only be a grandson of the queen, but he is one of only 2 kids of the future king (even if William has kids). He will play a major role for decades to come.
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  #1489  
Old 06-06-2018, 11:15 PM
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It's an issue of space...how many people can fit on the balcony? Also the issue was more about who was standing where..not just who will be on the balcony.


LaRae
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  #1490  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:50 AM
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Does it matter where people stand? I'm quite sure that even if William and Kate were on the far right and Harry & Meghan on the far left, there will still be plenty of photos and plenty of screen time.
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  #1491  
Old 06-07-2018, 02:24 AM
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The volume of people on the balcony is also an issue of "optics" whether we like it or not. I have no doubt that many of the UK taxpayers who look at it will believe, entirely erroneously I know, that they are somehow subsidising all those people financially. I know that this is not the case (so hold fire with your replies setting me straight), I'm fully aware that the vast majority of people on that balcony get no public subsidy at all. But I fully believe that this is lost on most normal people who think about the royals maybe once or twice a year max.

A ginormous crammed balcony full of family members people have never heard of let alone seen, as well as the ones they have heard of but have very serious doubts about (the Yorks, the Michaels and, to a degree, the Wessexes) does feed this notion of a "bloated" institution. I know this is the Queen's birthday parade and she can invite whoever she wants, but it needs to be acknowledged that having all those people up there doesn't necessarily do the monarchy much good.

This is precisely why the decision to have only HM and Charles's family on the balcony for the Queen's Diamond Jubliee was taken.
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  #1492  
Old 06-07-2018, 06:24 AM
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The reason for the decision to only have Charles etc on the balcony at the Jubilee was to replicate what Queen Victoria did and nothing about only showing a smaller royal family.

Victoria only had her heir and his family and not all her children and grandchildren at her 60th and that was why the Queen, with Charles' support, went down that path.
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  #1493  
Old 06-07-2018, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
A ginormous crammed balcony full of family members people have never heard of let alone seen, as well as the ones they have heard of but have very serious doubts about (the Yorks, the Michaels and, to a degree, the Wessexes) does feed this notion of a "bloated" institution. I know this is the Queen's birthday parade and she can invite whoever she wants, but it needs to be acknowledged that having all those people up there doesn't necessarily do the monarchy much good.

Very true.
Recent photos detailing who lives in KP resulted in comments to the effect that the Gloucesters shouldn't have a 21 room apartment (never mind that they have worked for the monarchy for years).

Like so much about the RF, it is a question of perception, not reality.
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  #1494  
Old 06-08-2018, 02:11 AM
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Well perception or not I can't see HM or Charles turfing out the Gloucester's, Duke of Kent, Prince Micheal of Kent, etc. They either work for the firm or pay market rates. On that scale it is more likely the penny pinchers would look at the Cambridge's two residences of enormous proportions and say how much have they worked to earn it or how much do they pay.

Some things are just nobody's business but the royal family business is theirs.
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  #1495  
Old 06-08-2018, 06:22 PM
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The Trooping of the Colour: BBC One- 10:30am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007r5jm

I’ll post the link for us the watch the Trooping outside the UK.
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  #1496  
Old 06-08-2018, 06:38 PM
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Britbox.com

Britbox.com will be streaming live from 530am EDT.

If you are not familiar with Britbox, take a look and see what wonderful programming they have- and there’s a 7 day free trial. You can watch online, or on your smart or Roku tv.
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  #1497  
Old 06-08-2018, 06:53 PM
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Trooping will be much later in the day for us in Australia, towards evening. Hopefully it will be on Sky UK.
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  #1498  
Old 06-08-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Fem View Post
And the hats! I always wait for the hats!

Main players or just the people you're the most interested in?

Because that's exacly what I love about this balcony appearance - it gets a bit "messy" and we can see all the members of royal family that we usually don't see, like Peter and Autumn Phillips.
for the first part of your post! And I love the 'messy' balcony scenes, too. I love to see what jewels the Queen's cousins such as Princess Michael are wearing and the fashion of the younger royals, how the little ones horse around, etc. The more the merrier, the pleebs are paying for a show, so give them a show.
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  #1499  
Old 06-08-2018, 07:54 PM
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Well, here we are again. - And although the Norwegian threads are my first priority now, I had to come back for the trooping, so let's go to work:

--------------------

A thing who always comes up on facebook and stuff, is the fact that the Queen almost never smiles and barley waves, while riding in one of the Ascot Landaus on her way to Horse Guards and back again to BP. - Why?
Well, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it has something to do with this being a military event - and not an event when she is just on display for the people, which was the case during the open car/carriage processions for her Jubilees and 90th Birthday celebrations, when she smiled and waved the entire time.

--------------------

Another thing who always comes up (especially in these threads) is the size of the crowds in the Mall and around the Victoria Memorial:

Will there be over a million people in the Mall and the surrounding parks/areas as we saw for the Silver, Golden and Diamond Jubilees celebrations, and the Royal Weddings in 1981 & 2011? No way.

Why not? Well, the balcony appearances and open car/carriage processions for the Jubilees and these two Weddings came with a Bank holiday, and the media and the people were in a celebratory mood. - Especially for the Diamond Jubilee, when millions of people were out in the rain to celebrate their Queen for 3 days (I was there, and I've never seen anything like it). The next time we could see anything like that again will be in 2022.

--------------------

Will there be over 100.000 people in the Mall, as we saw for the 90th Birthday trooping in 2016? No way.

Why not? Again, the country and the media were in a celebratory mood, and the trooping was part of a 3-day national celebration of a milestone Birthday (although not on the scale of the Jubilees).

--------------------

The crowds tomorrow:
This is not the 50s, 60s 70s and 80s anymore, and most people (royal watchers included) have other things to do, than standing in the streets for hours without seeing anything for a non-milestone birthday. - So, I expect that we will see around 15 to 20,000 people, as we have done in the last 30 years, and that's not bad at all in 2018.

--------------------

Weivers outside the UK can watch it on BBC One here at 10:30am UK time, but be a bit careful with this site:
TVPC - BBC One

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Trooping will be much later in the day for us in Australia, towards evening. Hopefully it will be on Sky UK.
With the exception of the Queen's 80th and 90th Birthday troopings, they don't normally cover it, not even during the wedding year of 2011 or the Diamond Jubilee year of 2012.

But it looks like they are making an exception this time:

Alastair Bruce @AlastairBruce
Off to bed, as covering Queen’s Birthday Parade for @SkyNews tomorrow morning:
https://twitter.com/AlastairBruce_/s...13288131592197
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  #1500  
Old 06-08-2018, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
It's an issue of space...how many people can fit on the balcony? Also the issue was more about who was standing where..not just who will be on the balcony.


LaRae
Really????? I have never once seen anyone suggest that the balcony may crumble under the weight. Or the queen may get lost because she is too short and they aren't organized where they stand.

Its all about slimming down. And by that no one is suggesting less kids born, as too many numbers. But the constant 'it costs too much money'. There needs to be less 'public royals' as public royals cost money.

I wait for the day when the slimmed down monarchy some people constantly call for comes, and the cost doesn't go down. When the number of engagments is cut 3/4 but the sovereign's grant continues going up every year. I will eat popcorn as I watch people scramble to explain how paying more money for less work is so much better.
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