The Windsors and Europe

[cepe]

The Pope sent a Nuncio and HMQ sent her Ambassador. No difference IMO.

 

[Marty91charmed]

I just had a look on twitter and and at the comments on thr DM: the general feeling is negative...

 

[Mbruno]

The Pope sent a Nuncio and HMQ sent her Ambassador. No difference IMO.

I agree. The Nuncio is actually the Pope's ambassador.

 

[Marty91charmed]

It is almost if they didn't even give any importance and just dismiss the funeral with an anbassor...

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The Pope sent a Nuncio and HMQ sent her Ambassador. No difference IMO.

cepe, you yourself posted this week that the BRF should send someone to this event, even a minor Royal if necessary. What has made you adjust your opinion?

And for the record, the pontiff does not appoint a Nuncio to every major Catholic funeral which tells us something about the significance of this one.


If the pope normally sent a member of his own family to a Catholic wedding or funeral-or attended IN PERSON- but for this occasion decided to only appoint a Nuncio the comparisons would be valid.


They are not.

 

[miche]

The general feeling of the Daily Mail is always negative

 

[royalistbert]

Very few people in the world are as busy and have as many commitments as the Pope, but even he managed to send a nuncio to Brussels to represent him.In comparison the idea that each and every member of the House of Windsor was simpy too "busy" and had events that could not be rescheduled strikes me as just beyond ridiculous. They are, according to their enthusiastic fans at least, THE most significant and senior of the Royal houses and are supposed to set the standard for classy behavior. That is not the case here.

The fact that I admire HM QEII as much as I do makes this rare misstep on her part even more baffling.

This is not a post to bash the BRF. I have had QEII and the DoE on a pedestal since I was a child. But frankly I think they botched this one big time, and yes...it does change the way I think of them just a little.

You going to change your view based of one funeral. I am sorry but people die all the time. The Queen has worked tiresly for her realms for 62 years. Without complaint. So much overeaction. Yes it's dissapointing but we need to move on.

 

[Rudolph]

well, I don't have the habit of going to funerals of relatives in the 9th degree or so. I imagine that most of us don't.

The Belgian press said that only royals attended with whom the queen had a personal connection. Maybe that is an explanation. It is a national funeral, not a state funeral.

Belgian tv speculates about it tough: they recall that there was a problem of the British RF not being represented at the funeral of Leopold either, which was not appreciated by Baudouin. And they remember that Baudouin did not go to the funeral of George VI as he thought that protocol did not allow it (he had not paid a state visit to the UK yet) - something that was not appreciated by QEII at the time.

My bold - There is your answer

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Why did the Queen not send the Duke of Edinburgh, the Duchess of Cornwall, Prince Henry of Wales, the Duke of York, Princess Beatrice of York, Princess Eugenie of York, the Earl of Wessex, the Countess of Wessex, the Princess Royal, the Duke of Gloucester, the Duchess of Gloucester, the Duke of Kent, the Duchess of Kent, Prince Michael of Kent, Princess Michael of Kent, Princess Alexandra, the Honourable Lady Ogilvy, etc.


Not one. Even the Emir of Quwait, the King of Thailand and the Emperor of Japan were represented.... It is not so strange that this is discussed.

I agree. Someone should have been there. Not going to condemn them for not representing, but the population of the BRF is large enough that someone (anyone) should have attended. I get it that the British Ambassador was there, but not the same thing, in my book.


I find it difficult to believe that there was a more personal relationship with the deposed King of Egypt than with QEII. Fabiola was Queen (Consort) of the Belgians for 33 years.


I don't know, it's just a deep disappointment.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

You going to change your view based of one funeral. I am sorry but people die all the time. The Queen has worked tiresly for her realms for 62 years. Without complaint. So much overeaction. Yes it's dissapointing but we need to move on.

You are right of course. I am extremely disappointed and confused, but QEII has been an exceptional queen, and to say this changes my opinion of her is perhaps an overreaction. She is still-just like the late Queen Fabiola- an amazing woman as far as I am concerned.

Perhaps she sent Philippe and Mathilde a personal letter like she did for Rainier III when Princess Grace died.

 

[maria-olivia]

I remember Prince Philippe's wedding in 1999.
The Crown Prince of Japan , the then Prince Albert of Monaco, the Crown Prince of Nepal (who killed his family ) entered the Church and everybody remain sitting.
The Prince of Wales entered the Cathedral and everybody was standing.
To day there was a camera inside and we could see who arrived, so we were sitting and standing...
The Benelux Royals and Scandinavian royals for family reasons (Queen Astrid) were there.
No Head of States from France , from Germany, from Austria, from Russia , America etc.. only their Ambassadors

 

[Nico]

well, I don't have the habit of going to funerals of relatives in the 9th degree or so. I imagine that most of us don't.

The Belgian press said that only royals attended with whom the queen had a personal connection. Maybe that is an explanation. It is a national funeral, not a state funeral.

It's, indeed, maybe just as simple as that ...

 

[Elenath]

IMO an ambassador represents the government. A member of the BRF represents the Queen. I'm sure they could have found someone if they had wanted to. Clearly they didn't.

Edit: I remember reading there was such a bond between the British and Belgian royal families QEII even attended the kings funeral (wich she never does in person). I guess too much time has passed for her to remember this.

 

[maria-olivia]

The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry were warmly welcomed by the belgian royal family for the commemorations of WW I.

 

[cepe]

cepe, you yourself posted this week that the BRF should send someone to this event, even a minor Royal if necessary. What has made you adjust your opinion?

And for the record, the pontiff does not appoint a Nuncio to every major Catholic funeral which tells us something about the significance of this one.


If the pope normally sent a member of his own family to a Catholic wedding or funeral-or attended IN PERSON- but for this occasion decided to only appoint a Nuncio the comparisons would be valid.


They are not.

I have already expressed my disappointment (somewhere on the first page) but it isnt a major issue for me.

There was a UK representative at the funeral.

 

[royalistbert]

You are right of course. I am extremely disappointed and confused, but QEII has been an exceptional queen, and to say this changes my opinion of her is perhaps an overreaction. She is still-just like the late Queen Fabiola- an amazing woman as far as I am concerned.

Perhaps she sent Philippe and Mathilde a personal letter like she did for Rainier III when Princess Grace died.

I am sure The Queen intended to send someone. I don't think this is anyway deliberate at all.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I did not expect this from you. Do you really mean what you're writing now.

I remain disappointed and baffled at the behavior of the BRF. When a wealthy Royal Saudi sheik pal of the Prince of Wales died a couple of years ago, Charles dropped everything and left the newly married Duchess of Cambridge to substitute an engagement of his so he could attend the obsequies.

The thaw in the chilly relationship that had existed between the Coburg Gothas and the Windsors in the 50's was largely due to the influence of the late Queen Fabiola. She single handedly persuaded Baudouin to extend the olive branch to the Windsors and urged him to renew a relationship via a State visit to Britain. She felt it was too important to do otherwise. But the Windsors did not deem her important enough to send someone other than their ambassador to her funeral?? When QE the Queen Mother died both King Albert II of Belgium and his Heir cleared their very "busy" schedules to attend her funeral rites.

I would say the same thing if Spain, Norway, Belgium, or Sweden shipped an ambassador to the funeral of a senior Royal.

But on reflection, no. It does not change or wipe out 62 years of mostly exemplary behavior on the part of QEII. I will always have admiration and esteem for her because she is remarkable, imo.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Pope sent a Nuncio and HMQ sent her Ambassador. No difference IMO.

There is a difference. The Pope, previously Jorge Mario Cardinal Bergoglio, does not belong to a royal family. He is not married, has no children, he has no hereditary successor, nothing of all this. Sending someone from his own family means that he requests his sister María Elena Bergoglio, living in Montevideo (Uruguay) to represent him at royal events...

The second difference is that the United Kingdom is represented by it's Ambassador. The Pope could have been represented by Mgr André-Joseph Leonard, the Archbishop of Malines-Brussels, by Godfried Cardinal Danneels, by the other bishops who were concelebrating Mass today, but no: despite the attendance of a cardinal, an archbishop and bishops, the Pope still requested the Italian Mgr Giacinto Berloco, Apostolic Nuncio, to represent him in person.

 

[suztav]

I, too, am very surprised. Also surprised that there isn't representation from the Greek Royal House nor Monaco. I have to think that Albert could have sent Caroline.


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[Duc_et_Pair]

I, too, am very surprised. Also surprised that there isn't representation from the Greek Royal House nor Monaco. I have to think that Albert could have sent Caroline.


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For some reason Monaco is a different case. They are not taken very au sérieux. For an example they make no State Visits. The new Kings of the Netherlands, Belgium and Spain make introduction visits to all monarchies, not to Monaco. For a long time they were snubbed a bit, this has improved in the last decades. When Prince Rainier or Princess Grace were still alive, both of the same generation as Queen Fabiola, we might have expected to see them in Brussels today. The Prince and Princess themselves are of course excused by the happy event which was the birth of the Marquis de Baux and the Comtesse de Carladès, the day before yesterday.

 

[melina premiere]

There were to day two cérémonies amass in the Palatine chapel and a civil ceremony in the room of the throne for the signature of the births of the twins .
Prince Albert attended with his father the funeral of King Baudoin, he attended the funerals of Prince Claus, princess Juliana and prince Berhnard as hereditary Prince .
He was reveived in many courts and there were a lot of Kings, Queens , crown princes and crowns princess and heads of states present to the wedding of prince Albert, there was the entire royal family present to his wedding.


The problem is that Caroline does not like to be present at the events of the royal families since she is no more with Ernst August, apart for the wedding of Guillaume of Luxemburg. also when Albert can not be present, there is nobody who can attend to these events.

 

[cepe]

They belong to the same royal dynasty (the House of Saxen-Coburg and Gotha).

I would be so surprised if the BRF think of that, anymore than they consider themselves Hanovarians or Stuarts.

House of Windsor - that's it.

 

[Osipi]

I've expressed my opinion that I thought it was very odd to me that the British royal family didn't send a familial representative to Queen Fabiola's funeral but it in no way changes my respect or admiration for them We do not know for a fact why nor do we know if the Queen conveyed her own personal condolences for their loss. Some things we will never know.

It is not a international crisis and I would bet my last pretzel that should Baudoin and Fabiola have been standing there in spirit, holding hands, at the funeral mass, they would have been warmly smiling at those that were there and holding fond memories of those who were not. Somehow they do not strike me as a couple that thrived on pettiness.

 

[cepe]

I know the history, I just dont believe the BRF think of themselves as other than Windsor.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

There were to day two cérémonies amass in the Palatine chapel and a civil ceremony in the room of the throne for the signature of the births of the twins .
Prince Albert attended with his father the funeral of King Baudoin, he attended the funerals of Prince Claus, princess Juliana and prince Berhnard as hereditary Prince .
He was reveived in many courts and there were a lot of Kings, Queens , crown princes and crowns princess and heads of states present to the wedding of prince Albert, there was the entire royal family present to his wedding.


The problem is that Caroline does not like to be present at the events of the royal families since she is no more with Ernst August, apart for the wedding of Guillaume of Luxemburg. also when Albert can not be present, there is nobody who can attend to these events.

I think Princess Caroline was okay with attending the Luxembourg wedding because she appears to have a close relationship with Henri and MT. She and Henri have been friends since they were children. I've read rumors that Grace hoped they would fall in love and marry.

When Albert got married he seated Henri and MT at the same table as his family.

 

[WillVictoria]

Albert von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha was the husband of Queen Victoria

"From King Edward VII, who reigned from 1901 to 1910, until 1917 when King George V replaced the German-sounding title with the name of Windsor during the First World War, British monarchs belonged to the House of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha"

House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Except for the fact that while they might technically be a part of the house of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, they haven't actually called themselves that for almost a hundred years. No member of the BRF who is currently alive has ever referred to themselves dynastically as anything other than a Windsor. On their Saxe-Coburg-Gotha side their closest mutual relative is the Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saafield who was the father of Leopold I and Victoria, Duchess of Kent. It appears to me that after the deaths of uncle Leopold (Leopold I) and Queen Victoria the families did what most originally close families do when the senior members die off, drift apart. And due both to the conflicting religions (Catholicism vs. Anglicanism) which lead to a lack of intermarrying and the fact that they aren't as close geographically as, say, BeNeLux or the Scandinavian monarchies, the two royally families never exhibited the same close and sustaining bond other monarchies had.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

If they don't have a very good reason to stay home (serious illnes of a close family member or something like that wich we don't know) this is a real snub ! And it is irritating that other royals are expected to show up with their most senior members as soon as there are an event in Britain but they can't show the same respect to other countries !!

I hope they haven't excused themselves with "scheduling conflicts" as Death never comes "scheduled" in nearly all other monarchies an Empress, Kings, Queens, Princes and Princess'es clearly were able to reschedule their agendas to attend the funeral of a woman styles Her Majesty and who was Queen of the Belgians for 33 years.

 

[Lee-Z]

I had assumed that all the royal families would be present (reigning and non-reigning), but if it was a wish of Q.Fabiola that only people attended who she had a personal bond with, than i it's great that they respected her wishes.
Would be way worse if people had turned up just because it's "tradition"

 

[ladongas]

Perhaps we should cease criticizing the entire BRF for this.

This was a decision of no one other than HM herself.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I had assumed that all the royal families would be present (reigning and non-reigning), but if it was a wish of Q.Fabiola that only people attended who she had a personal bond with, than i it's great that they respected her wishes.
Would be way worse if people had turned up just because it's "tradition"

It seemed it was also Queen Fabiola's wishes that she would not lie in state, that her funeral should be in the parish church of Laeken only, etc. (statements by her Confessor, Père Benoît Lobet, Doyen of Enghien). These wishes were also not fulfilled... And... what was the personal relationship of Queen Fabiola with the representant of the Emir of Quwait or Princess Sirindhorn of Thailand?