The Windsors and Europe

[ysbel]

Well earlier this year, Anne went to Poland and Andrew went to Hong Kong so I don't think they have a rule on not doing foreign events. But these events were planned out way in the past.

As I said above, I think its a combination of the BRF's habit of booking their schedule incredibly far in advance and the late notice of this event. People knew when the King's birthday was but they didn't know what he was going to do when. Plus I think there's a lot of monarch birthday celebrations going on at the end of April, first Margrethe's, then Elizabeth, and now Carl Gustaf.

Other royal families don't seem to book their calendars full like the BRF or do everything so far in advance so they had more leeway to make adjustments. But even they can't adjust all the time. Frederik campaigned hard to get a sailing competition underway that fell right during the festivities.

 

[Alexandria]

Some of this is simply due to the Swedish court's refusal to finalise arrangements until the last minute. I remember that even as late as January they refused to discuss events. If the Swedes had announced last October (British calendars are framed in May and November, IIRC, with more events filled in as the time goes on) the events, I'm sure the Wessexes would have been available.

Was it that the Swedish court didn't finalize events until the last minute, or that the details weren't publicized until the last minute?

From what I've read, the plans for the King's birthday are pretty lavish. I can't imagine that the Swedish court only finalized what they were going to do last month or ordered everything that was needed (eg. food, extra help, decorations, etc.) last month either.

I think had someone from the British court called the Swedish court -- or if the Swedish court had called the various royal courts -- and inquired about plans, the Swedish court could've easily said "The celebrations are scheduled for these dates if you would like to include a representative from your royal family, and ensure that their schedule is clear at that time. Details will be sent."

And birthdays, unlike weddings, happen each year. So I don't think it was unreasonable to anticipate that with such a milestone birthday the Swedish King wouldn't do anything to mark it with his friends.

 

[Elspeth]

If the Queen had wanted to send someone to the birthday celebrations, it shouldn't have been impossible. If she'd requested that the Gloucesters, Princess Alexandra, or the Duke of Kent show up there, I don't think they'd all have declined. It's much more likely that she didn't ask them.

The Queen seems much more focussed on the Commonwealth than on Europe. I wonder if this will continue in the next reign.

 

[Alexandria]

The Queen seems much more focussed on the Commonwealth than on Europe. I wonder if this will continue in the next reign.

Charles has represented the Queen on hundreds of occasions over the years, so I think he's mixed and mingled with his European counterparts quite a fair bit. We saw the Haakon and Mette-Marit and Constantijn and Laurentien at his wedding to Camilla, which was not a grand state wedding and didn't require that someone from all of the monarchies be represented.

I think that Charles will be Commonwealth focused, but will find a way to include his European counterparts in his reign as well. I hope, anways.

 

[BeatrixFan]

All I can say is that I wouldn't blame any of the European Royals for saying "Up Yours" when the next invitation from the Windsors comes their way. In their position I'd be very tempted to. 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 weeks, the Royal Household are well aware of the Royal birthdays and not to send someone, even the Kents, is just a little churlish IMO.

 

[Lamyah]

I guess they'll get such an opportunity when her 80th national celebration comes around this summer. I get the sense that the Queen's public or foreign officials is always tied to her work and I rarely see much social mingling b/w the BRF and other European household (with the exception of King Constantine and his family who live in the UK). It would have been lovely to see Princes William and Harry hanging out with Princesses Victoria and Madeleine, but maybe next time.

 

[kelly9480]

Was it that the Swedish court didn't finalize events until the last minute, or that the details weren't publicized until the last minute?

The plans weren't announced to other royal families very far in advance. If they had been, surely the Wessexes, at the very least, would have been sent. I don't think the Windsors are in the habit of calling other courts and asking what their plans are -- when Diana died, it was the other courts calling London to inquire about the funeral, not London calling them.

I think there's a mistaken assumption that the Swedish and British courts are close. Charles has been criticised for his distant relationship with Carl Gustaf, and there hasn't been a state visit to or from Sweden for a long time. I don't think the families see each other outside royal events, and even then, Charles isn't known for staying for long (he was at Haakon's wedding for 4 hours).

Anne and Andrew rarely ever do foreign royal events. Anne travels abroad several times a year for the foreign office, and Andrew travels a lot with his trade ties. But you rarely see them at foreign royal events -- though Andrew is close to the Middle Eastern families and attends a lot of their events. Andrew was sent to Josephine-Charlotte's funeral because Charles didn't want to cut short his vacation, but Anne is Haakon's godmother and didn't even attend his wedding.

 

[Emily]

Charles has been criticised for his distant relationship with Carl Gustaf, and there hasn't been a state visit to or from Sweden for a long time. I don't think the families see each other outside royal events, and even then, Charles isn't known for staying for long (he was at Haakon's wedding for 4 hours).

I was trying to remember if there has been a state visit to England by the Swedish Royal Family -- can someone tell me? And I am very puzzled by the British Royal Family's lack of socializing with their European counterparts. Do they avoid these personal celebrations because they look too frivolous or cost the taxpayer too much? I wonder the same thing about the Spanish Royal Family. Even though QS, and very rarely KJC, attends these functions, the Princes of Asturias sure don't seem to be attending many of these personal functions and building relationships among their generation. It would seem building these relationships - however legally powerless monarchies have become - is prudent to fostering overall goodwill between countries.

 

[kelly9480]

I know there was a visit from Carl Gustaf shortly after he became king, and EIIR went to Sweden in 1983. There haven't been any state visits to Sweden since 1983, and the British royal site doesn't appear to list state visits to the UK.

I know EIIR can't leave the country without security approval of where she's going, and she feels the need to return whenever she thinks the government's in crisis (which it is right now). I don't think that rule applies to the rest of the family, though. I don't think they avoid the events because they look expensive, though they do get some bad press for the expensive dresses, but that's always going to happen in the UK.

I think they may avoid them because they relate more to Brits rather than to other Europeans. They don't see themselves as part of royal Europe, they see themselves as Brits first and foremost, so that's who they relate to, and who they spend time with.

 

[BeatrixFan]

The Government isn't in crisis so I don't think that's a reason. But nobody is saying HM had to go - she could have sent anyone. Whether the Royal Family wants to show itself as Brits or not, they are family and it's time our lot started to make more of an effort abroad. I'm sorry but I just can't see any excuse - monarchs from bigger nations have made the effort.

 

[Saragli]

Well the BRF right now is still mainly associated with the Commonwealth but as the European Union grows and becomes stronger and the commonwealth changes and becomes weaker I think we will see the brits paying more attention to the continent. But still, there is no excuse for not sending at least one person. Princess Alexandra would have been a great choice and even the Dukes of Gloucestier. I would have loved to see them.

 

[kelly9480]

The only royals who probably know CG well enough to attend (and who have a history of attending foreign royal events) are Charles and the Wessexes. Camilla has family business right now and Charles wouldn't have gone without her. The Wessexes scheduled something this weekend. Realistically, those were the only two options for going and neither of them was available.

I think the Wessexes should have left their schedule open (they don't usually have a packed schedule and they're always available for other royal events), but, to be honest, anything less than Charles going was going to be sub-par representation. All the other guests are monarchs, consorts, heirs, and their consorts. Sending the monarch's fourth child just wasn't going to cut it in terms of equality. Sending Alexandra or the Gloucesters certainly wouldn't be enough.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Without knowing the wording of the invitation we can't say that someone should have been sent.

The invitation may have specified individual members of the British Royal Family - who couldn't attend due to other commitments.

If the invitation was wide open then yes maybe someone should have been sent but if the invitation was to specific members of the family only then there is a genuine reason why they didn't send anyone.

Both the British and Spanish RFs have larger areas of concern where they concentrate their overseas visits - the British with the Commonwealth and the Spanish with the former Spanish colonies.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I don't think it's anything to do with knowing them well enough, it's just courtesy. Blood is blood. This would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce Camilla to the foreign branches of the family (the ones she hasn't met). But even if you cut out the Wessex's, what about Anne and that useless hubby of hers? The Duke of Gloucester was good enough for a Brunei wedding, Alexandra has opened Parliaments in the Commonwealth - it seems that they are only minor when it's to the advantage of the men in grey suits.

 

[kelly9480]

Camilla's daughter gets married in a week, so she wasn't going to be going, regardless of how good an opportunity this would have been to introduce her to the other royals.

The Windsors don't consider the Europeans to be family anymore, only the public do that now.

Anne's husband is a Rear Admiral in the Navy -- hardly useless at all. And he rarely accompanies Anne on foreign visits.

The Sultan of Brunei is a close family friend, so the Gloucesters know him very well.

Alexandra hasn't opened a Commonwealth parliament in decades and rarely carries out foreign visits nowadays.

 

[Laviollette]

Since learning about the other european royals -- Denmark, Spain, the Dutch and others -- I have become fond of all those royal families and no longer fond of the Windsors, not that I really ever was. It's just that they are all we hear about in the states. Along with their ocassionally juicy scandals, I've been surprised in a good way by european royals' warmth and family values. They are just nice, almost normal people. Just as Prince Henrik, Consort of QM of Denmark, came to King Carl Gustav's b-party with his daughter-in-law CP Mary, the Windsors too could have sent one or two people in any combination (Sophie w/Andrew). But that's not the kind of courtiers who run the royal family are. They nor the Windsors themselves seem to be flexible or conscious of the feelings of others.

 

[soCal girl]

IMO it's more worse to send nobody than to send "lesser" royals. As said before by Laviollette, Mary and Henrik are a perfect example. Yes, Queen Margarethe had to cancel on her cousin because she was sick but her daughter-in-law and her husband both still went who have no blood relation whatsoever to the Swedish Royal Family. And both looked very happy to be there. It was also really cute to see Prince Henrik escort his daughter-in-law. It really is a shame that nobody was sent because everybody looked lovely at the dinner tonight.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Willem-Alexander and Maxima had a busy day in the Netherlands but still flew out to Sweden.

Sorry Kelly, but I just don't know why you're making excuses. Every other Royal House sent someone and the Windsors didn't and it's not on.

 

[Charlotte1]

Anne and Andrew rarely ever do foreign royal events. Anne travels abroad several times a year for the foreign office, and Andrew travels a lot with his trade ties. But you rarely see them at foreign royal events -- though Andrew is close to the Middle Eastern families and attends a lot of their events. Andrew was sent to Josephine-Charlotte's funeral because Charles didn't want to cut short his vacation, but Anne is Haakon's godmother and didn't even attend his wedding.

It's not strictly accurate that Anne and Andrew rarely do foreign events, Andrew in particular is slotted in for a few. Last year he represented the Queen at Josephine-Charlotte's funeral and also Rainier's. This year he's representing the Queen at the Thai king's 60th Jubilee celebrations. He attended Prince Hamzah's wedding celebration in 2004. ( The Windsors divided up the 2004 weddings, Edward and Sophie attended the Danish. Charles the Spanish and Andrew the Jordanian. Other royal houses just attended them all) Anne ( with husband Tim) attended the Silver wedding celebrations of King Harald and Queen Sonja of Norway. She also attended another celebration with her father but I can't remember which one at the moment. (Anne is god-mother to Haakon and no she didn't attend his wedding, but she also didn't attend his christening!)

The Queen makes sure she sends someone to funerals as the BRF was the only one represented recently ( by the Duke of Kent) at the funeral of the former President of (?). Social events have a lower priority the BRF just isn't particularly close with their European counterparts. To the extent that for the Queen's 80th, Friday night there was a private dinner for her birthday but the following night there was a gala dinner at Windsor Castle. The only European royals attending were CP Alexander of Serbia and his wife and Constantine and Anne-Marie of Greece. These couples actually have a close relationship with the Queen.

 

[Laviollette]

...when Diana died, it was the other courts calling London to inquire about the funeral, not London calling them...but Anne is Haakon's godmother and didn't even attend his wedding.

The reason London wasn't calling other royals, european and otherwise, after the death of Princess Diana is because the Windsors were trying to diminish the worldwide sorrow felt for the loss of her life and for her boys, who would grow up without their mother. The BRF didn't want any heads-of-state or other royals attending because their position was Diana's funeral was neither a royal or state funeral -- although they allegedly took great interest in and wanted to hurry her embalming in Paris.

And Princess Anne not attending the wedding of her godson, CP Haakon, well that's just a startling tidbit. What are they being chosen godparents for?

 

[Elspeth]

The reason London wasn't calling other royals, european and otherwise, after the death of Princess Diana is because the Windsors were trying to diminish the worldwide sorrow felt for the loss of her life and for her boys, who would grow up without their mother.

I think you missed out an "in my opinion" somewhere in that post.

 

[Laviollette]

I think you missed out an "in my opinion" somewhere in that post.

yes, you are correct. it is entirely my own opinion.

 

[ysbel]

I think the death and funeral of Diana was such an exceptional situation, its hard to make generalities of how the British Royal Family operates from it.

For whatever reasons they didn't send a representative to the King's birthday, I think overall in their relations to the other royal families, they're being rather shortsighted and keeping up with other royals should be a higher priority.

The public or the common man can turn against the royals in a heartbeat and in Britain it has been happening more and more. Yets the European royals despite their divergent protocols and nationalities have a mutual vested interest in keeping the monarchy live and well and they support each other in important events. The more kings and queens, princes and princesses at an event, the more legitimacy they give it and each other.

The monarchs of Europe were more than generous in supporting the Queen during her jubilee. It did make the celebrations more impressive to see a King Harold in his Order of the Garter robes. Perhaps they think they don't need that kind of support but its rather shortsighted.

 

[kelly9480]

Sorry Kelly, but I just don't know why you're making excuses. Every other Royal House sent someone and the Windsors didn't and it's not on.

And I don't know why you and everyone else is sitting here criticizing the Windsors for behaving the way everyone expects them to behave.

They don't attend many foreign royal events. Deal with it. Stop crying about them not attending this birthday when we all know they skip as much as they possibly can because they don't want to be bothered with it. Everyone here is acting like this is the first time they've skipped a royal event, and we all know it's not. In fact, when they do attend should be news because it's so rare for them to get bothered.

Even Edward, who normally attends foreign royal events and is closer to the current heirs than his elder brother, didn't attend his Nikolai of Denmark's christening because he didn't feel like making the trip -- even though he's his godfather.

They don't bother it and they probably never will. We're not suddenly going to see Charles, William or Harry rushing to every royal event -- in fact, I think we'll see even less representations when Charles and William are on the throne than we do now.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

Willem-Alexander and Maxima had a busy day in the Netherlands but still flew out to Sweden.

Sorry Kelly, but I just don't know why you're making excuses. Every other Royal House sent someone and the Windsors didn't and it's not on.

I agree Sam.

It is seems a terrible oversight not to have sent someone. None of us on here know the British Royals every single move and I cannot understand why some of pretend like we do...especially those of us who are NOT living in Great Britain.

At the end of the day, the classy and tactful thing to do would have been to send anyone of the royals to the party.

The British Royal family is big enough (official and unofficial members all included) to have sent at least one representative.

 

[kelly9480]

Unofficial members won't be sent except in very rare occasions. IIRC, the last time one was sent was Lord Harewood, or maybe Lord Mountbatten.

I can't understand why some can't simply accept that none of them wanted to attend/or felt able to attend. Regardless of how nice it would have been to have seen them there (I personally would have loved to have seen Sophie, but she doesn't do foreign royal events without Edward), they didn't go. Deal with it. The foreign royals themselves are always quick to point out that they understand why the Windsors don't attend (and sometimes their quickness in doing so is merely from the point of being polite, rather than genuine understanding) so why doesn't everyone else accept it as graciously as they do?

 

[Elspeth]

Probably because the royal family are supposed to base their timetable on other considerations than whether they want to attend something. If it's traditional for royal families to send representatives to celebrations of major birthdays and so on, then either the British royal family should do so or alternatively shouldn't expect representatives of other royal families to show up at equivalent British celebrations. It's the perception that other families are expected to show up at British events but the reverse isn't true which isn't sitting well with people.

When the European monarchs can make it to the Danish royal wedding but the Queen sends a younger son as representative, yet expects other countries' monarchs to show up at the wedding of her heir, it looks arrogant and condescending.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

I agree Elspeth. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, as the saying goes.

With all due respect to her HM and her family, it was not the most tactful thing to have done.

I would hope the other monarchies start to give them a taste of their own medicine in that respect. When the British Court snaps it's fingers, the other monarchs should not be expected to jump each time.

No disrespect meant to HM....just wishing better manners could have been shown.

Oh...and we all have the right to our own opinions.. a little P.S. to my American counterpart...

 

[soCal girl]

Even Edward, who normally attends foreign royal events and is closer to the current heirs than his elder brother, didn't attend his Nikolai of Denmark's christening because he didn't feel like making the trip -- even though he's his godfather.

Royal birthdays aside, I think it's terrible that Edward did not attend his own godson's christening because he didn't feel like making the trip. Being made godfather is an honor and should be treated as such. To me that makes Edward lazy and kind of arrogant. As for Anne not attending Haakon's wedding, that's almost as bad. Wouldn't you want to be at the special occasions of your godchildren? and if you didn't, isn't it better to kindly decline to be the godparent if you're just going to skip out on major events such as a christening or a wedding? And to me scheduling isn't an excuse. If my godson/daughter was getting christened or married, I would make time and clear the schedule.

 

[crisiñaki]

I totally agree with you, all the BRF is getting insolated which is not good for the next generation (aka William and Harry) if they want to have succesful relationships with other royals, they tend to be vengative and won't forget this treatment even if it isn't their fault