The Sovereign and the Church of England

[Tiberivs]

The monarch role in the CoE is a political one rather than spiritual. Its simply symbolic to the CoE being the state church and the unity between it and the English/British state.

It's not require to be a good Protestant to hold it (I'm sure you could think of a few kings whose life weren't exactly a sign of Christian virtues and morals...) in fact in the past the head of the CoE wasn't even require to be a Protestant as it was the case with the Catholic James II that was the Supreme Governor the CoE and manage to hold the support of important churchmen (including the Archbishop of Canterbury) even after he lost the throne, a support that extended to his Catholic son and grandson (the latter briefly converted to Anglicanism).

[mary stuart]

the title is fidei defensor defender of the faith which was grant to henry8th in reconightion of his seven sacrements defence against calivin . heres a link wikipedia Fidei defensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Iluvbertie]

There are in fact two titles - Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

Although Henry VIII was originally given the title Defender of the Faith but it was later stripped from him after his break from Rome. He then had the English Parliament give it back to him.

Originally Henry also had himself declared Head of the Church of England under the first Act of Supremacy and then that was repealed under Mary so Elizabeth had to start again with another Act of Supremacy but she had to use the title Supreme Governor of the CoE.

[CyrilVladisla]

After the Anglican Church was created in England, how many churches remained Catholic?

[Durham]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

After the Anglican Church was created in England, how many churches remained Catholic?

None. They all belonged to the new church. No RC church in England dates from before the Reformation. There were still many recusants (English Catholics) but their services remained hidden. And so English Roman Catholicism never really died out. Especially in areas far away from London & where the local gentry remained RC.

As an aside you might find this of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfWSM9gBzDs

[Heavs]

Thanks, Durham. Very interesting.

I think in Walsingham the RC Basilica there is in an old medieval chapel but that's certainly not continuous occupation (at one time it was a stables) and they were only allowed back in the 19th century. The CofE took over the roles and remaining buildings wholesale.

These days Canterbury Cathedral (Mother Church of the Anglican Communion) does allow Catholics to hold masses there occasionally, especially as it relates to Thomas Becket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7MMJxieuBc&t=952s

There's a lot of complex history with the monarchs of England there.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by Heavs

I think in Walsingham the RC Basilica there is in an old medieval chapel but that's certainly not continuous occupation (at one time it was a stables) and they were only allowed back in the 19th century. The CofE took over the roles and remaining buildings wholesale.

Yes the so called slipper chapel. It's a tiny but a remarkable survivor but as you say not in continuous occupation. And it was never a church of course. Walsingham is a lovely place but sadly a shadow of what it once was.

All attempts at ecumenticalism are to be welcomed. CofE-RC relations have come a long way!

[CyrilVladisla]

Listening to the Catholic Vespers was extremely enriching.
Westminster Cathedral is Catholic. The cathedral opened in 1903.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE6qOY4jybU

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

After the Anglican Church was created in England, how many churches remained Catholic?

There were many prominent Catholic families in England after the Reformation.Queen Mary I reversed the religious policies of her father and brothers reign and restored Catholicism.
In the summer of 1559 Elizabeth I held her Parliament and The Act of Uniformity was passed though there was much opposition from the Marian Bishops.
Luckily for Elizabeth the previous Archbishop of Canterbury Cardinal Pole had died in 1558 and she appointed the Protestant Matthew Parker to the vacant See.
The Archbishop of York was a devout Catholic Nicholas Heath and he refused to Crown Elizabeth and was later deprived of his See.
Nicholas Heath,Archbishop of York 1555-1559

[Somebody]

This seems to be the right thread for this discussion... Posts taken from Spare-memoir thread (Added for context, not to further discuss Harry's religious (non) beliefs).

Originally Posted by TLLK

Prince Harry reveals that he's not very religious but considers himself to be spiritual. Also he wonders if the late Diana, Princess of Wales might have had a part in delaying the 2005 wedding of the then Prince of Wales and Camila Parker-Bowles.


https://archive.ph/1caki

Originally Posted by Alison H

(...)
I don't think it's a big deal that he's not religious. The 2021 census showed that fewer than 50% of people in England and Wales identify as Christian. The monarch and direct heirs have to be seen to be "religious" because of the monarch being Supreme Governor of the C of E, but I don't think anyone's that bothered if minor royals are religious or not.

Originally Posted by Somebody

They still had Meghan convert and become a member of the Church of England (which I still believe was more out of tradition than anything else), had at least Archie baptized. All rather hypocritical if you profess not to be religious (but only spiritual).

Nonetheless, I agree that the bigger problem lies with William (and Catherine). Unlike his grandmother, there are few signs that they consider themselves as Christians/believers - members of the CoE, yes (although Catherine was confirmed only just before her wedding), but that's about it.

Originally Posted by duchessrachel

I have wondered about this. One day Prince William will be King and head of the Church of England, yet there is no evidence that he and Catherine go to church, and I don't recall them ever professing to be Christians. I know this is off topic so is there a forum to discuss it?

[Lilyflo]

I don't think it matters if William isn't a believer, as long as he keeps his beliefs private and carries out all the necessary C of E duties when he's King.

[King of the Jungle]

Many younger people don't go to church as regularly as their parents though they are still believers in Christianity and like seeing a church nearby.

No one knows the extent of anyone's inner beliefs. All are varied and possibly few exactly the same.

We see Catherine and William attending quite a few C of E services through out the year and some with their children.
I see that as positive and respectful and boding well for the future.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by King of the Jungle

Many younger people don't go to church as regularly as their parents though they are still believers in Christianity and like seeing a church nearby.

No one knows the extent of anyone's inner beliefs. All are varied and possibly few exactly the same.

We see Catherine and William attending quite a few C of E services through out the year and some with their children.
I see that as positive and respectful and boding well for the future.

However, unlike his father or grandmother, this is not part of their personal practice but always as members of the larger royal family. At least, I don't recall any personal attendance of a church service.

The fact that Catherine only got confirmed just before she married William suggests that she herself didn't consider herself a Christian or that it was in any way important to her.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Somebody

However, unlike his father or grandmother, this is not part of their personal routine but always as members of the larger royal family. At least, I don't recall any personal attendance of a church service.

The fact that Catherine only got confirmed just before she married William suggests that she herself didn't consider herself a Christian or that it was in any way important to her.

She was baptised, why sould she not consider herself a Christian?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Denville

She was baptised, why sould she not consider herself a Christian?

Because the way to confirm your baptism once you've come of age and can take responsibility for your own views in life is 'Confirmation'. She never bothered to personally confess her faith until she 'had to' when marrying William (of course, I understand it wasn't a law but it was definitely expected and something that apparently needed 'fixing' before their marriage).

In Dutch, she would most likely call herself 'christelijk' (part of the christian sub-culture) but not 'christen' (someone who beliefs the teachings of the bible/church and has a personal relationship with God).

[Saragli]

It is not surprising that the younger generation may not view themselves as being religious. I don't really find it much of an issue as I personally believe that the CoE will undergo some form of disestablishment in this, or the next reign, and the head of state will no longer be the head of the state religion.

[Denville]

But she's not Dutch. SHe was baptised, and brought up with a certain set of values, and she has not renounced her membership of the C of E.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Denville

But she's not Dutch. SHe was baptised, and brought up with a certain set of values, and she has not renounced her membership of the C of E.

I understand that she isn't Dutch - but sometimes languages have ways to express something that other languages don't. In this case, William and Catherine are culturally christians but so far I have seen no evidence that they are also 'believers'.

Whether that is a problem or not given that William is expected to become the future Head of the Church of England will most likely be answered differently by different people. So far, they have indeed shown that they are willing to participate in church-related royal activities; and unlike Harry at least not publicly stated that they are 'not religious'. So, there aren't any 'practical' problems.

[Denville]

English people are not very RELIGIIOUS per se. It does not mean that they don't have beliefs, and they may keep a lot of it private.... Its different in other cultures.... but Im sure Kate's home taught her Christian values and she was baptised, even if there was a social element in that.

[Sunnystar]

Honestly, I doubt the paps are going to snap pics of the Wales family attending church. It may be something neither Will nor Kate felt strongly about doing while they were in their twenties, but once they had children they became, quietly, more observant about. We've heard they have a close relationship with Edward & Sophie, who are known to be faithful, so it's entirely possible that the Wales', like the Wessexes, just quietly go about their way with going to church and teaching their children about the Christian faith.