The Royal Household, Courtiers, Advisers and Attendants 1: Ending Sep 2022


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When the office was set up for William and Harry and the Royal Foundation was established, there were only the two of them and neither one of them were anywhere close to being full time working royals. It made sense to have a joint office and staff. At the time.

The years pass and both William and Harry are now married and have/expecting children. They, along with their wives, are now in the position to be full time working royals for the "Firm" and both men are clearly defining their roles as the soft transition from the Queen to Charles becomes more and more evident. The Royal Foundation has grown immensely and even within that Foundation, the projects are individualized somewhat (William with United for Wildlife and Harry with Invictus Games for example) although they do all work together as the "fab four". Their roles are growing and maturing. We see William following in the footsteps of his grandmother and his father and we see Harry forging his own path with the core (as it seems right now) being the Commonwealth.

Many times a company is founded as a single business but as the years pass, the company expands and grows and subsidiary companies are born to handle specific things. Perhaps similar to Skype Communications being a subsidiary of Microsoft. This is what seems to be happening and with the households and the staff becoming individualized to both William and Harry, its better all the way around to be able to put the focus on each one's needs and plans.

The British royal family is not one to do things on a whim, or haphazardly or just because they can. There's a lot of thought and assessment done years in advance to when it actually seems to be a need. This move to separate the household and staff may have been seen as a necessity a while ago and is just now getting to the stage of being implemented.

Cost wise, I can only see it as being a solution to allow both households to actually run more efficiently. As the saying goes, too many cooks spoil the broth and when one staff is handling the multitude of different things and different ways William and Harry are going to have their roles progress into the future, to me, it would get more and more confusing. Good focus by a staff makes things so much easier all the way around.

All in all, what it tells me is that this generation of full time working royals are settling into their roles and the way they're going to go into the future very, very well and do their grandmother proud.
 
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Personally, I can't see the point in splitting the Household till William becomes PoW. The two couples can and do have different roles, and support different causes, but the Household should remain the same. To me, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Ar regards the comment about too many cooks et al, the reality is that H&M are quite low in the pecking order in the firm. I am sure they accept that, and understand that their "immediate boss" is the PoW ang the big boss is HM. End of!"
 
Ar regards the comment about too many cooks et al, the reality is that H&M are quite low in the pecking order in the firm. I am sure they accept that, and understand that their "immediate boss" is the PoW ang the big boss is HM. End of!"

Although the reality is that Harry and Meghan *are* lesser royals and lower down in the pecking order in the rank and file of the "Firm", I would seriously doubt that any of them would deem the work that Harry and Meghan are slated to do in the future whether in HM's reign or in Charles' or even in William's as being of lesser importance and have lesser relevance to the monarchy than those higher up in the pecking order.

To me, it isn't about the importance of a member of the BRF and if they're higher or lower than another but I see it more as Team Windsor where what is important is the people and the causes that they serve. It all stems back to supporting the monarchy as a whole and that, I think, is the main goal.

For all we know, these plans are being drawn up and not being put into effect until Charles' reign begins. Looking at things logically, it could happen next month, next year or 10 years from now. They're a "Firm" that is prepared for any kind of a situation. They're always prepared.
 
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IMO it made no sense that William and Harry had their own office in the first place. Now if Harry is joining Charles' office, that makes sense.

The Queen's Office supports the work done by the Queen, Philip (before he retired), Anne, Andrew, Edward, and the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester. The aforementioned do far more work than William, Harry and Catherine, and while the addition of Meghan will boost the activity, combined it will still be a fraction of the work done out of the other royal offices.
 
..... I would seriously doubt that any of them would deem the work that Harry and Meghan are slated to do in the future whether in HM's reign or in Charles' or even in William's as being of lesser importance and have lesser relevance to the monarchy than those higher up in the pecking order.

I think we will need to agree to disagree on that. From the perspective of the monarchy, the work that H&M do will be of a lot less importance to the firm than that which C&C and W&C do. That is not to say that the work that the work that H&M do will be of less importance to society per se, and by association, the BRF, but there is a clear pecking order.


To me, it isn't about the importance of a member of the BRF and if they're higher or lower than another but I see it more as Team Windsor where what is important is the people and the causes that they serve. It all stems back to supporting the monarchy as a whole and that, I think, is the main goal.

I could not agree more on your comment re Team Windsor, but yet again, the chain of command is clear: HM, Charles.......

For all we know, these plans are being drawn up and not being put into effect until Charles' reign begins. Looking at things logically, it could happen next month, next year or 10 years from now. They're a "Firm" that is prepared for any kind of a situation. They're always prepared.

Separation of the Households is inevitable in the next reign. William, as PoW and like his father currently, will have his own set-up. Harry's set up, my sense is, will probably be merged with BP, as is currently the case with those of the Queen's 3 younger children.
 
There may well be plans afoot to split the Households, office staff etc. However, I can't see it actually happening until William becomes Prince of Wales.

Otherwise, how is it going to be funded? Charles funds the office at KP now. Is he going to fund two separate Households with separate staff etc, which will be more expensive? Can't see it somehow.

Once William has the Duchy money then his Household can be fully funded by him, and Harry's by Charles. The Foundation is likely to continue for some time in its present format as well, IMO.

That seems more reasonable to me as well although I can also see why the different paths the brothers are on might lead to an earlier split. How reliable is the source (Roya Nikkhah)?

Edit: after reading some other posts, I conclude that it's just speculation...
 
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I think Roya has a reputation as being more reliable than some of the other Royal reporters as she has been proven correct in some stories she's written in the past. And she works for a much more reputable newspaper than tabloids like the Sun and Fail. However, she has also had her misses with some reports she's filed on the BRF.

I've got no doubt that there is a good deal forward planning going on for the Prince of Wales and his sons, simply because, unfortunately, the Queen is not going to last for ever. Charles though, has seen his expenses rise this year anyway with the Cambridge household expanding, Meghan joining 'the Firm' and more engagements being performed now his sons are fulltime. For me that is a further argument against him agreeing to fund three separate offices at this time, probably with expanded communications/media units needed in two of them.
 
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Splitting the households makes more sense for me at the time of William becoming Duke of Cornwall. There are already so many current Royal households. If anything, I would merge the four Royal households of the Queens cousins to streamline things.
 
Court Circular 4th March:
Appendix to Court Circular
The Queen has been pleased to appoint the Lord Geidt to be a Permanent Lord in Waiting to Her Majesty with effect from 4th March, 2019.
 
Sad news. The Queen’s long serving housekeeper, Annette Wilkin, has suddenly passed away. You guys might remember her appearing in the ‘Monarchy: The Royal Family at Work’ documentary several years ago. She showed us how the royal housekeepers professionally unpack and pack guests luggage during their stay at Buckingham Palace.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...et-death-loyal-housekeeper-short-illness.html
 
Poor Queen. As royals get older they rely so much on these loyal and longstanding members of staff. Of course newer people can do the job but it's not the same.
 
May Miss Wilkin rest in peace. I'm sure HM is incredibly saddened by the news, and I agree that it must be hard to lose a lot of long-serving staff - who have probably also become long-time friends - in her older age.
 
Phillipa de Pass

I'm curious if the Queen's Lady-in-Waiting, Philippa de Pass is titled, or just has the title of Lady-in-Waiting.

Thanks!!!! :flowers:


I see that each of the Queen's ladies has a title - I suppose de Pass is a title too?

What are the eqivalents for a king?

Does Prince Phillip have men who serve him?
 
I'm curious if the Queen's Lady-in-Waiting, Philippa de Pass is titled, or just has the title of Lady-in-Waiting.

Thanks!!!! :flowers:

de Pass is her surname. Her husband was Lieutenant Commander Robert de Pass. Close friends of The Queen and Prince Philip.

Not all ladies in waiting are aristocracy nowdays.
 
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de Pass is her surname. Her husband was Lieutenant Commander Robert de Pass. Close friends of The Queen and Prince Philip.

Not all ladies in waiting are aristocracy nowdays.
She is from landed gentry family and is a descendant of Earls of Abergavenny. Her uncle was created Baron Gibson-Watt, her nephew is the Baron Wrottesley.
 
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With a new reign inevitablely approaching, aristocratic ladies in waiting will probably be even more uncommon. I mean ofcourse Camilla wants to be attended by women she knows personally in one way or another (just like QEII is) and not a group of women that has been selected for her by others... There is ofcourse titled friends of her too that maybe will attend her but probably even more non-titled...

If the system with Ladies in waiting will be kept at all... in Norway, Queen Sonja have abolished it. The only one still having a Lady in Waiting is Princess Astrid.... Though the danish and swedish Queen’s still have them.
 
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With a new reign inevitablely approaching, aristocratic ladies in waiting will probably be even more uncommon. I mean ofcourse Camilla wants to be attended by women she knows personally in one way or another (just like QEII is) and not a group of women that has been selected for her by others... There is ofcourse titled friends of her too that maybe will attend her but probably even more non-titled...

If the system with Ladies in waiting will be kept at all... in Norway, Queen Sonja have abolished it. The only one still having a Lady in Waiting is Princess Astrid.... Though the danish and swedish Queen’s still have them.

Queen Máxima also has ladies-in-waiting but fewer than Queen Beatrix because she is no head-of-state and therefore has less audiences, ceremonies, official visits. Because these ladies are not paid, they still come from the aristocracy (2x) and from patrician families (2x). Queen Máxima's ladies are NO staff, they are high up on the hierarchy as the Queen's companions. I believe also the British ladies-in-waiting are not paid, so it is already sorting itself somehat because one must be able to afford this service to the Crown.
 
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With a new reign inevitablely approaching, aristocratic ladies in waiting will probably be even more uncommon. I mean ofcourse Camilla wants to be attended by women she knows personally in one way or another (just like QEII is) and not a group of women that has been selected for her by others... There is ofcourse titled friends of her too that maybe will attend her but probably even more non-titled...

If the system with Ladies in waiting will be kept at all... in Norway, Queen Sonja have abolished it. The only one still having a Lady in Waiting is Princess Astrid.... Though the danish and swedish Queen’s still have them.

The peerage and the gentry are a much more integral part of the British class system than the nobility is in the Scandinavian countries. I honestly don’t see ladies-in-waiting with an aristocratic background disappearing any time soon in the UK.
 
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There is a pretty interesting book that goes into details of the royal household, the positions and the hierarchy involved. Its called "Not in Front of the Corgis: Secrets of Life Behind the Royal Curtains" by Brian Hoey. ?
 
I imagine it will be on of the Queen's Pages of the Backstairs, I'm not sure which one he is but I believe it usually on of those pages who is behind HM at State Banquets.

Thank you! Based on your response, I determined he is Barry Mitford.
 
What they may do with the Sovereign Grant is amend the calculations that has put the Sovereign Grant up to 25%. On 18 November 2016 a plan was announced to increase the Sovereign Grant from 15% to 25% to renovate and repair Buckingham Palace. The percentage is set to revert to 15% when the project is finished in 2027. This could possibly mean that some renovations be put on hold for BP and perhaps reconsidered again when the economic effects of the pandemic is passed. That would be my guess.

The Royal Trust is a good candidate for feeling the effects of Covid-19 as it does depend on public tourism to generate a large percent of their funds.
 
I thought the sovereign grant was made in such a way as to protect it from falling revenue? i.e. it can increase but not decrease (other than the raising the % amount given to the Household to fund the renovation works)
 
I think so too. But if there's economic hardships, they very well could possibly retract the increase to 25% enacted specifically to fund the renovations to BP before the pandemic and put some renovations on hold for the time being until things get more economically sound.

This is just my thoughts from way out in left field. Don't take my word for it that this is even an option as I don't know the ins and outs of how it all works. ?
 
Catering Assistant at Buckingham Palace Admitted of Stealing Medals & Photographs

Adamo Canto (a catering assistant), 37, pleaded guilty at Westminster Magistrates' Court to three counts of theft between 11 November 2019 and 7 August 2020.

The police has found a "significant quantity" of stolen items at his quarters at the Royal Mews in Buckingham Palace.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-55133346
https://www.hellomagazine.com/royal...gned-photo-stolen-buckingham-palace-employee/
 
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