The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[MARG]

I do not understand the continual moaning about the RFO, I think Dman possibly has the right of it. Since the ivory was acquired long enough ago to qualify as antique in its own right I think that the"new" attitude to very old ivory is probably why HM hasn't gone out of her way to have a suitable replacement made.

 

[maria-olivia]

I was sad to see Duchess Catherine with no Order at all.

 

[Dman]

I do not understand the continual moaning about the RFO, I think Dman possibly has the right of it. Since the ivory was acquired long enough ago to qualify as antique in its own right I think that the"new" attitude to very old ivory is probably why HM hasn't gone out of her way to have a suitable replacement made.

That's probably just what it is. The Queen isn't hip to this new attitude towards ivory and Catherine is just left family orderless. Despite her service under The Queen.

I guess we'll just have to look forward to Catherine receiving her Tuvalu Order and possibly an appointment to a knighthood.

 

[Iluvbertie]

We go round and round on this issue and seem to have the following conclusions:

either she doesn't have the order because the Queen doesn't think she deserves OR she want wear ivory.

The latter falls down because it could be made from something other than ivory. That leaves only the view that the Queen believes she hasn't done enough to earn it.

The Queen has her reasons, whatever they are, and just because someone believes that doing around 100 engagements a year for 6 years is enough and having two children maybe the Queen expects more. Sarah did about this much as well but never received it - why not? Maybe things aren't as solid in the Cambridge marriage as we would like to believe (I know there are rumours that they spend a lot of time apart - not necessarily from reliable sources but those rumours do exist) or maybe the rumours about the deteriorating relationship between William and Charles are true and so the Queen, to show her support for Charles, and so isn't giving an award to Kate or maybe the decision has been made to not give any family orders to her grandchildren's generation - or at least not until her royal granddaughters are seen wearing the order and that won't be for another 10 - 50 years if at all - given the rumours about a smaller royal family with no role ever for the York princesses so if they are never to be seen wearing it maybe she feels she won't let her granddaughter-in-law wear it or maybe HM is going senile or maybe Philip has told her not to give it to Kate or maybe the rumours about the parentage of the children are true and HM is giving her subtle agreement to that by not honouring the 'mother' of those children or she doesn't like the way the Middleton's behave and so is punishing Kate.

Whatever the reason the only person who probably truly knows is HM and she isn't going to tell anyone her reasons as it is a personal order given by HM for services to HM by HRHs.

 

[W.Y.CII]

I doubt that QEII will change the setting for individual member if it is all about the ivory. So if the setting is changed, it will be applied to ladies in future, and this change probably takes a looooong time to complete (to find material, craftsmen/artisans, appointment, et cetera et cetera, a bunch of work )

 

[Dman]

I'm just going to leave the whole thing alone by finishing with this thought-

The Queen received George V's family order at the age of 9. What did she do to get it?

The family order isn't given based on years of personal achievement. It's a personal family momento marking you as a senior member of the royal family. It's worn by the senior ladies at evening State events. The Duchess of Cambridge is a senior member of the royal family.

 

[Nico]

And apparently we have the confirmation that Harry got something from the King of Spain !
Rosette sighting !

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/13/12/424A090400000578-4691984-image-a-37_1499943848074.jpg

 

[W.Y.CII]

Actually it is a personal gift from the monarch and possibly they set different criteria so we never know what make a lady deserves a RFO

 

[Molly2101]

If he did receive something before William that is interesting.

I did notice that both Andrew and Edward had three star shaped awards on their chest which I couldn't work out what they were as neither of them have the Order of the Thistle.

 

[Nico]

Confirmation :

A white and yellow rosette
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos...vi-of-spain-and-picture-id813791006?s=594x594

So Harry did receive the Order of Isabella the Catholic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Isabella_the_Catholic

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

If he did receive something before William that is interesting.

Maybe a thank you for making the effort to guide the Kings around the Abbey

 

[wyevale]

maybe HM is going senile or maybe Philip has told her not to give it to Kate or maybe the rumours about the parentage of the children are true and HM is giving her subtle agreement to that by not honouring the 'mother' of those children or she doesn't like the way the Middleton's behave and so is punishing Kate.

This is clearly not the correct thread for answering this, but i have NEVER heard of any rumours impugning the parentage of the Cambridge children, or indeed suggesting HMQ is 'senile' ! Perhaps these canards are current in Australia ?

 

[Pranter]

I don't think that sort of speculation is allowed here?


LaRae

 

[Curryong]

No more Australian than anywhere else. Lots of canards are all over the Internet if you go looking for them, unfortunately.

 

[Osipi]

I think I smell a distinct odor of sarcasm. Outrageous reasons that were made up to give a bazillion reasons what HM may be thinking and not to be taken seriously. Of course we don't know what the Queen thinks so any speculation is as good as the next guy's.

 

[AnaC]

And apparently we have the confirmation that Harry got something from the King of Spain !
Rosette sighting !

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/13/12/424A090400000578-4691984-image-a-37_1499943848074.jpg

Why didn't he wear the sash last night, then?

And did anyone see Andrew with a Spanish order? If Harry has received one for accompanying Felipe and Letizia, Andrew must have received one too.

 

[Nico]

Why didn't he wear the sash last night, then?

Maybe because he was wearing his RVO around his neck ? But he had definitively the star of the Order of Isabella the Catholic last night.

 

[AnaC]

He could wear both, and in any case he was supposed to wear his highest Spanish order last night no? The others were extra, so to speak.
The fact that he didn't wear a sash last night and that the Spanish Gazette hasn't published anything makes me wonder what is going on.

 

[Molly2101]

Why didn't he wear the sash last night, then?

And did anyone see Andrew with a Spanish order? If Harry has received one for accompanying Felipe and Letizia, Andrew must have received one too.

I don't know if Andrew did but he and Edward were both wearing three star shaped orders last night whereas before I'm sure I've only ever seen them wear 2.

 

[AnaC]

Both Andrew and Edward have the Garter, and in the video it looks like they are wearing the blue sash of the Garter:

It makes no sense for Harry, Andrew and Edward to receive a Spanish order and not wear it to the State Dinner.

 

[wartenberg7]

He could wear both, and in any case he was supposed to wear his highest Spanish order last night no? The others were extra, so to speak.
The fact that he didn't wear a sash last night and that the Spanish Gazette hasn't published anything makes me wonder what is going on.

I fully agree with you! It all becomes more and more confusing... Harry being awarded, but the other Royals, including his ELDER brother, not. Then wearing no sash (never seen it before - a sash always seems to be worn for this specific order).
The Queen of the UK (whom I truely love and admire since my childhood days!) stubbornly keeping on awarding only MALE consorts (although being "only" HRHs) and no female. Clearly a publicly performed male preference - and that in the year 2017! I do hope the next King will change this right away.
Then that "Catherine still has not the RFO"-thing... It´s all irritating and untransparent. You don´t understand why this and that (odd) decision is made - or if there was one at all. It has no guiding line, no concept, comparing to the other Royal Houses where you just exchange and receive orders according to ones own position and rank in the monarchy as a token of politeness and a mark of diplomatic entante, and that´s that. No fuss no "???"

 

[Molly2101]

Both Andrew and Edward have the Garter, and in the video it looks like they are wearing the blue sash of the Garter:

It makes no sense for Harry, Andrew and Edward to receive a Spanish order and not wear it to the State Dinner.

Upon closer inspection I discovered the other thing they are wearing are their medals and the other two things are, I'm assuming, the KCVO and Garter star.

 

[Dman]

I fully agree with you! It all becomes more and more confusing... Harry being awarded, but the other Royals, including his ELDER brother, not. Then wearing no sash (never seen it before - a sash always seems to be worn for this specific order).
The Queen of the UK (whom I truely love and admire since my childhood days!) stubbornly keeping on awarding only MALE consorts (although being "only" HRHs) and no female. Clearly a publicly performed male preference - and that in the year 2017! I do hope the next King will change this right away.
Then that "Catherine still has not the RFO"-thing... It´s all irritating and untransparent. You don´t understand why this and that (odd) decision is made - or if there was one at all. It has no guiding line, no concept, comparing to the other Royal Houses where you just exchange and receive orders according to ones own position and rank in the monarchy as a token of politeness and a mark of diplomatic entante, and that´s that. No fuss no "???"

It's not only confusing and frustrating but, when one recognizes the large amount of unfairness and lack of transparency, some folks make it seem like you're the one that's crazy and have no right to express concern and skepticism of The Queen's odd system on awarding the family order. After six years this stuff is bound to come up.

 

[Mbruno]

I don't know if Andrew did but he and Edward were both wearing three star shaped orders last night whereas before I'm sure I've only ever seen them wear 2.

.

You must be a Knight Grand Cross to wear the badge of the order on a sash. If Harry had been awarded the order at the grade of Knight Commander, he would wear the badge on a necklace and the star on the chest. The thing is though that he was clearly wearing his own British KCVO badge around the neck and it wouldn't make sense for him to wear the star of a Spanish order on the chest and not wear the badge on a necklace or a ribbon. The lower grades of the order on the other hand wouldn't get a star, would they ?

 

[AnaC]

According to this The British Royals Message Board: Re: While on the subject of orders -- Prince Harry

Harry, Andrew and Anne were given the Order of Isabel la Católica. If true, it would be a thank you because the three of them are accompanying the King and Queen at different events during the State Visit. But still doesn't make sense why Harry and Andrew didn't wear their Spanish orders last night. I haven't seen a good picture/video of Anne.

 

[Mbruno]

According to this The British Royals Message Board: Re: While on the subject of orders -- Prince Harry

Harry, Andrew and Anne were given the Order of Isabel la Católica. If true, it would be a thank you because the three of them are accompanying the King and Queen at different events during the State Visit. But still doesn't make sense why Harry and Andrew didn't wear their Spanish orders last night. I haven't seen a good picture/video of Anne.

I saw Princess Anne on the video. I'm pretty sure she was wearing the blue sash of the Order of the Garter (which is easy to differentiate from others as it is worn on the left shoulder !). And Harry, I'm also pretty sure, was wearing the badge of KCVO on his necklace.



If Anne was really made a Grand Cross and Harry a Commander in the Order of Isabel la Católica , Anne should have worn the corresponding (yellow ?) sash with the Spanish badge attached thereto and Harry, I suppsose, should have worn the Spanish insignia on his neck. So, either the board is wrong, or maybe the Spaniards haven't delivered them the full insignia yet, which would be very amateurish if it did happen.


EDIT: And BTW, why was Harry wearing a miniature order (or whatever that was) on a visit to Westminster Abbey, which I wouldn't normally consider an order event ?

 

[AnaC]

I saw Princess Anne on the video. I'm pretty sure she was wearing the blue sash of the Order of the Garter (which is easy to differentiate from others as it is worn on the left shoulder !). And Harry, I'm also pretty sure, was wearing the badge of KCVO on his necklace.

If Anne was really made a Grand Cross and Harry a Commander in the Order of Isabel la Católica , Anne should have worn the corresponding (yellow ?) sash with the Spanish badge attached thereto and Harry, I suppsose, should have worn the Spanish insignia on his neck. So, either the board is wrong, or maybe the Spaniards haven't delivered them the full insignia yet, which would be very amateurish if it did happen.

The sash is white and yellow. The Peruvian First Lady wears it in this picture

I can't imagine King Felipe and his staff bringing the lapel pin that Harry was wearing today and the "stars" that they wore last night and forgetting the sashes. All these things go in the same box

 

[Mbruno]

The sash is white and yellow. The Peruvian First Lady wears it in this picture

I can't imagine King Felipe and his staff bringing the lapel pin that Harry was wearing today and the "stars" that they wore last night and forgetting the sashes. All these things go in the same box

In any case, it would be very awkward for the King of Spain to bestow orders on Harry, Anne and Andrew, and give nothing to Camilla, William and Catherine, who have higher precedence. Camilla, in particular, escorted the King and the Queen to Horse Guards and received them for tea at Clarence House, so she was as much a part of the official program as Harry, Andrew, or Anne. As for William and Kate, I don't think it is their fault that the Queen didn't ask them to play a greater role in this particular state visit.

This order "blunder", including the British royals not wearing the proper insignia at the state dinner, is something that one would not expect in a visit from the King of Spain to the British monarch. I must say I find it difficult to understand.


EDIT: According to another forum, Richard Palmer has confirmed that Anne, Andrew and Harry have indeed received the Order of Isabella the Catholic. As the royal decree awarding the orders has not been published yet, I assume it must have been a last-time, rushed decision, which might explain the confusion at the dinner with the insignia they were wearing. In any case, it doesn't look good on the Casa del Rey or the Windsors, or both (I'm not sure yet !).

 

[AnaC]

We'll see what order Anne wears tonight

 

[tommy100]

I can't imagine why they wouldn't wear the orders if they were given them unless it was not announced in advance so they did not know and decided not to change their pre-planned orders/ ribbons etc at short notice? Even I admit its pretty lame but still...
I don't get the fuss about Anne, Andrew and Harry getting orders while the others do not, if true then the King has obviously decided to reward/recognise those involved in the official programme of their visit. The other royals simply turned up at a banquet. As for Charles and Camilla, well Charles has the highest orders he can until turning King. Camilla will most likely get an honour when Queen (same goes for William and Kate - they will have opportunities as PsoW and Sovereigns to get honours).

I agree with AnaC, tonights banquet may be the test. If Anne has the order she has had plenty of time for tonights banquet to get the sash ready.

Edit - Could it be that as they are wearing the star they are also wearing the Sash of their highest UK order? the order of splendour talks about how to wear orders and in one picture King Harald of Norway is wearing the collar of the Swedish order but the sash of his highest Norwegian order? Not sure how it all works but maybe they were doing what they thought was the right thing?