The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[Iluvbertie]

Yes, it is her decision. Time to raise some voices in the media and so it can reach the Palace so she can make an actual decision.

She has made a decision - NO.

Just because she hasn't made the decision you think she should make doesn't mean she hasn't made that decision.

She has her reasons for that decision and we have to accept that. To do otherwise is to show a total disregard for HM and her rights and is totally disrespectful of her.

I would suggest Richard Palmer, Emily Andrews, Camilla Tominey and others start writing some reports about it and ask the Palace officials about Catherine missing family order. Maybe bring it to the Palace attention would help.

Why? It is a personal gift so why would anyone - other than you - really care?

Are you secretly Kate trying to influence HM through this forum???

 

[Countessmeout]

I agree iluvbertie, it's a personal gift and doesn't need a petition. It's not like the queen has gone senile and needs reminding she hasn't given it to Kate. She will give it if and when she chooses.

 

[Dman]

She has made a decision - NO.

Just because she hasn't made the decision you think she should make doesn't mean she hasn't made that decision.

She has her reasons for that decision and we have to accept that. To do otherwise is to show a total disregard for HM and her rights and is totally disrespectful of her.



Why? It is a personal gift so why would anyone - other than you - really care?

Are you secretly Kate trying to influence HM through this forum???

Lol, no! Just looking for answers. Better than just going with senseless speculations.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The answer is simple:

The award is in the personal gift of HM. If it has been awarded it would be being worn so as it isn't being worn it hasn't been given.

That is all the answer you need.

To ask here 'why not' is the wrong place. To get an answer to that question you need to write directly to HM and ask her in person as she is the one who makes the decision.

All we can do here is speculate.

 

[Dman]

The answer is simple:

The award is in the personal gift of HM. If it has been awarded it would be being worn so as it isn't being worn it hasn't been given.

That is all the answer you need.

To ask here 'why not' is the wrong place. To get an answer to that question you need to write directly to HM and ask her in person as she is the one who makes the decision.

All we can do here is speculate.

It's not an award but a family gift to the senior female members of the royal family. It's given to be worn at State evening events. Catherine is a senior royal, who attends state evening events. She should be given the gift.

Now, just maybe Catherine needs to be a full time royal. Hopefully the Cambridge's will make that transition this year, once Williams contract is up. Then again you never know with William. He may get a job with the circus next.

 

[Gretijean]

Was anyone able to answer this?

What happens to the RFOs of royals who have passed. Do they reused them? For example, Queen Mary's Elizabeth did it get given to a royal lady 20 years later? The Queen is the only one with a George V and Alexandra is the only other with a George VI besides the Queen's. Where are the RFOs that were the Queen Mum and Margaret's? Do they take the precious stones from older monarch's RFOs and reset them into the new monarch's order? I can't see them buying new diamonds each time there is a new monarch.

If it is a personal gift, wouldn't it be theirs to do with as they please? Did Lady Sarah Chatto inherit Princess Margaret's RFO? (inherit, not wear it personally) Lady Sarah Chatto could potentially be another person who has the RFO but has no occasion to wear it. She is said to be favored by QEII.

I think we spend more time speculating on whether Catherine has an order or not, more than the Catherine and others in the royal family.

The Duchess of Cambridge wearing the wedding bracelet is significant to show that there is a positive relationship between her and the Queen. Have we seen any other member of the royal family wear that bracelet?

My opinion is that Catherine should receive the RFO soon. She has been a senior member of the royal family for 5 years, has committed to many charities, worked at being an active part of the Firm, and has produced and heir and a spare for the monarchy. As a the mother of a future king, she should have QEII RFO.

Catherine is a senior working member and deserves the RFO at this point. I can understand the Queen wanting to wait to see how the married life was for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. They seem very committed to each other and genuinely like/love each other.

As to whether or not The Queen's granddaughters have performed the duties or are deemed worthy enough to earn her RFO. They haven't and therefore they don't have the order. Life isn't fair, and there probably isn't another family that is more aware of birth order or titles. Do you honestly think the other granddaughters would feel slighted by not getting the RFO if Catherine would receive one?

 

[Dman]

Was anyone able to answer this?



If it is a personal gift, wouldn't it be theirs to do with as they please? Did Lady Sarah Chatto inherit Princess Margaret's RFO? (inherit, not wear it personally) Lady Sarah Chatto could potentially be another person who has the RFO but has no occasion to wear it. She is said to be favored by QEII.

I think we spend more time speculating on whether Catherine has an order or not, more than the Catherine and others in the royal family.

The Duchess of Cambridge wearing the wedding bracelet is significant to show that there is a positive relationship between her and the Queen. Have we seen any other member of the royal family wear that bracelet?

My opinion is that Catherine should receive the RFO soon. She has been a senior member of the royal family for 5 years, has committed to many charities, worked at being an active part of the Firm, and has produced and heir and a spare for the monarchy. As a the mother of a future king, she should have QEII RFO.

Catherine is a senior working member and deserves the RFO at this point. I can understand the Queen wanting to wait to see how the married life was for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. They seem very committed to each other and genuinely like/love each other.

As to whether or not The Queen's granddaughters have performed the duties or are deemed worthy enough to earn her RFO. They haven't and therefore they don't have the order. Life isn't fair, and there probably isn't another family that is more aware of birth order or titles. Do you honestly think the other granddaughters would feel slighted by not getting the RFO if Catherine would receive one?

No, Catherine is a senior working member of the royal family. It's meant to be gifted to the senior royal ladies. She's the third lady of the land. This doesn't apply to Sarah Chatto and the York sisters. If the York girls became official working members of the royal family, they would have the family order.

 

[Iluvbertie]

We do NOT know whether the York girls or Zara or Sarah have it or not. It isn't only given to working royals but to whomever HM chooses. She may have given to her granddaughters and niece at some time or not - we don't know.

We don't know why she gives it to one person and not another.

We do know that we don't know and to say 'xxxxx' doesn't have it based on 'we haven't seen them at an event where they would wear it' is not proof.

We know Kate doesn't have it as she has been to events where it would be worn if she had it.

We don't know anything else about the younger female royals. It is equally wrong to say they don't have it because they don't work for the Firm as it is to demand that Kate gets it because she does.

It is the personal gift of HM and it is up to the Queen alone to decide the who, when and why someone gets it or doesn't get it.

 

[Countessmeout]

No, Catherine is a senior working member of the royal family. It's meant to be gifted to the senior royal ladies. She's the third lady of the land. This doesn't apply to Sarah Chatto and the York sisters. If the York girls became official working members of the royal family, they would have the family order.

No, it is meant to be given to female members if the family. No where ties it require seniority or working royal. This has clearly been showcased over the years with women far more removed from the throne, bring granted them. With previous monarchs there were different degrees/classes, denoting his close one was to the throne. This was never more clear than with Victoria who gave it to every dinged granddaughter, including foreign ones. Beatrice and Eugenie are both senior royals as granddaughters if the queen in the male line and have been representing charities for years now.

 

[Dman]

Okay, this system of the British royal family orders need to change and be updated. It's so easy to understand the Danish, Swedish, Spanish and Norwegian orders, but the British is beyond complicated and shrouded in too much mystery.

It is wrong to have Catherine attending these events without being properly dressed in her family order.

Also, it's alright to question The Queen's system of not giving this gift to a senior female member of the family. Especially when that senior royal is officially representing her around the U.K. And Commonwealth for nearly six years and still have to go about without the family order. Also, watching other members of her family proudly wearing theirs.

Maybe since it's Catherine who don't have it is causing some people to think it's alright. If it was Camilla or Sophie in this position, some folks would be singing a different tune, IMO.

No, it is meant to be given to female members if the family. No where ties it require seniority or working royal. This has clearly been showcased over the years with women far more removed from the throne, bring granted them. With previous monarchs there were different degrees/classes, denoting his close one was to the throne. This was never more clear than with Victoria who gave it to every dinged granddaughter, including foreign ones. Beatrice and Eugenie are both senior royals as granddaughters if the queen in the male line and have been representing charities for years now.

Beatrice and Eugenie aren't senior members of the royal family. They are titled through their father, but don't work on behalf of the Monarch. If they became official working members of the royal family, yes, they would have the family order. Prince Andrew just straightened this situation out in a statement last year.

 

[Osipi]

Its entirely possible that Kate has had the RFO for a while and with the issue of ivory, that has been resolved by Kate wearing the wedding bracelet in its stead as the RFO is a gift from the Queen and the wedding bracelet is a gift loan from the Queen. Perhaps it signifies the same thing and the RFO itself is in Kate's jewel vault somewhere and coveted. We don't know.

To make demands or to put questions to something that is clearly and understandably known to be a gift from the Queen is not within anyone's right to make points about. Would we feel that we have the right to decide just what is good and what isn't for the Queen to give as Christmas gifts? No. I don't think so. The RFO and her Christmas gifts are comparable in this case.

The way the RFO works will change in the future. That is a given. It will then be up to King Charles III to gift the RFO as he chooses. For all we know, he could decide that for his, he wants a picture of his namesake frog on it. Its his prerogative.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Here's a thought: When's the last time the RFO has been given to the wife of a grandson of the monarch or the grand-daughter of a monarch?

 

[Dman]

Here's a thought: When's the last time the RFO has been given to the wife of a grandson of the monarch or the grand-daughter of a monarch?

I know Queen Mary received her Victoria and Albert order on the day of her wedding.

 

[Countessmeout]

Okay, this system of the British royal family orders need to change and be updated. It's so easy to understand the Danish, Swedish, Spanish and Norwegian orders, but the British is beyond complicated and shrouded in too much mystery.

It is wrong to have Catherine attending these events without being properly dressed in her family order.

Also, it's alright to question The Queen's system of not giving this gift to a senior female member of the family. Especially when that senior royal is officially representing her around the U.K. And Commonwealth for nearly six years and still have to go about without the family order. Also, watching other members of her family proudly wearing theirs.

Maybe since it's Catherine who don't have it is causing some people to think it's alright. If it was Camilla or Sophie in this position, some folks would be singing a different tune, IMO.



Beatrice and Eugenie aren't senior members of the royal family. They are titled through their father, but don't work on behalf of the Monarch. If they became official working members of the royal family, yes, they would have the family order. Prince Andrew just straightened this situation out in a statement last year.

You seem to keep intentionally missing two points

1 there is a difference between senior royal and working royal. You can be both, you can be one or the other. Princess Alexandra is a working Royal. But is not a senior Royal. Beatrice us a senior Royal, but not working. And William us both.

2 there us absolutely nothing in the RFO which says they have to be either. Simply a member of the family. If they font have it, they are the only granddaughters if a British monarch since Queen Victoria, not to have it. alice of althone was never wiring, but had five of them, the closest she came to the throne was the first order dye had, her grandmother vicious. The fife girls had the order for their uncle, cousin and his son, yet were neither working or senior royals.

I know you are on dome crusade to she a petition to right some conceived slight to Kate, but facts are facts.

 

[Countessmeout]

Here's a thought: When's the last time the RFO has been given to the wife of a grandson of the monarch or the grand-daughter of a monarch?

As pointed out a few times, all of Victoria's granddaughters, even Foreign ones, were given them. It was also customary for monarchs to give them to their nieces.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is part of fun to speculate. Du moment that Catherine has her RFO, we will start speculating about the future Princess Harry and her RFO... ;-)

 

[Dman]

There shouldn't have to be any speculations. After a year or two, the senior royal ladies should at least the family order. Or even gift it after the weddings.

Catherine shouldn't be going this long without the family order. If she and William go to a foreign royal event and orders are required to be worn, Catherine will be the only senior royal lady present without a family order. It looks odd at the State Banquet, diplomatic corps receptions, and will most definitely look extremely odd at a foreign royal event.

I'm dropping it now. Don't care anymore about it.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Ach... let us hope King Willem-Alexander makes a State Visit to the royal neighbours overseas. Then we can be sure that Catherine will be given an Order, as the Dutch seems not to care about reciprocity ("My Máxima no Order? Then your Camilla or Catherine no Order!"). They just seems to grant one as a token of personal appreciation and goodwill ;-)

See Diana's note with her only foreign royal Order: picture

 

[MARG]

Yes, it is her decision. Time to raise some voices in the media and so it can reach the Palace so she can make an actual decision.

I would suggest Richard Palmer, Emily Andrews, Camilla Tominey and others start writing some reports about it and ask the Palace officials about Catherine missing family order. Maybe bring it to the Palace attention would help.

Good grief! Whatever are you thinking implying that HM is incapable of making her own decisions for her own reasons? HM harangued by the press to give Catherine a family order. Do you really think HM would ever be seen to be forced to do so under pressure from the tabloids?

All this personal angst over a family order for Catherine because, in your opinion, she deserves one. The Queen has always treated her family fairly and does not take out an advert to defend her decisions to those who have no clue as to why she made them. Now you advocate a media assault by the very worst tabloids to harass her over such trivia.

The last time the media took it into their heads to harangue HM, it did not end well!

 

[Arrjann]

Ach... let us hope King Willem-Alexander makes a State Visit to the royal neighbours overseas. Then we can be sure that Catherine will be given an Order, as the Dutch seems not to care about reciprocity ("My Máxima no Order? Then your Camilla or Catherine no Order!"). They just seems to grant one as a token of personal appreciation and goodwill ;-)

See Diana's note with her only foreign royal Order: picture

The Dutch monarch has an generous policy regarding orders, but I'm not sure whether these order would extent to grandchildren (in law) of a monarch. For example, the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester didn't receive Dutch orders during state visits.

 

[Dman]

Good grief! Whatever are you thinking implying that HM is incapable of making her own decisions for her own reasons? HM harangued by the press to give Catherine a family order. Do you really think HM would ever be seen to be forced to do so under pressure from the tabloids?

All this personal angst over a family order for Catherine because, in your opinion, she deserves one. The Queen has always treated her family fairly and does not take out an advert to defend her decisions to those who have no clue as to why she made them. Now you advocate a media assault by the very worst tabloids to harass her over such trivia.

The last time the media took it into their heads to harangue HM, it did not end well!

First of all...I have never advocated for the media to launch an assault on Her Majesty. I simply think the media should bring it up and ask some questions. Especially, if Catherine shows up to another state event without the family order. It's pretty natural for questions to be asked after all this time.

 

[Arrjann]

First of all...I have never advocated for the media to launch an assault on Her Majesty. I simply think the media should bring it up and ask some questions. Especially, if Catherine shows up to another state event without the family order. It's pretty natural for questions to be asked after all this time.

If there would come an answer from Buckingham Palace, it would be something like: 'We can't comment on this, this is the Queen's own, personal decision'. That would be it.

 

[Dman]

If there would come an answer from Buckingham Palace, it would be something like: 'We can't comment on this, this is the Queen's own, personal decision'. That would be it.

No harm in asking and reporting about the topic though.

 

[AdmirerUS]

What percentage of the population of the UK do any of us think give a fig about the Family Order that should incite an Honours Uprising?
Sorry - the grammar in that sentence is a horror. But you all get my meaning.
Surely there are better uses of Journos time than to begin a seething inquiry into a very singular honor, rarely seen in public anyway.

 

[Dman]

What percentage of the population of the UK do any of us think give a fig about the Family Order that should incite an Honours Uprising?
Sorry - the grammar in that sentence is a horror. But you all get my meaning.
Surely there are better uses of Journos time than to begin a seething inquiry into a very singular honor, rarely seen in public anyway.

I think it's worth it, but I'm weird so don't mind me.

 

[Queen Claude]

No harm in asking and reporting about the topic though.

This could become a "be careful what you wish for" situation. I don't think it's a given if journalists and opinion writers started reporting on Kate not having the RFO that Kate would come out favorably. As far as we know, Kate is the only royal woman who has worn the Queen's engagement bracelet and maybe proponents of Kate should focus on that particular honor.

 

[Osipi]

I think it's worth it, but I'm weird so don't mind me.

Awwww... you're not weird. You have opinions and make good arguments and stick to what you believe in. I admire that in a man.

 

[kyle]

So, after checking back into this thread, I decided to do a little research on these theories. I have always felt that Catherine will never have a royal order from the Queen.

My current reason is William's firm view on ivory.

Prince William urges leaders to support full ivory trade ban - CBBC Newsround

There even was a rumour that he wanted all the ivory in Buckingham Palace destroyed in 2014.

 

[tommy100]

The idea that the media asking why Kate doesn't have the RFO and that it will end with Kate getting it is mad. If they do make a fuss about it it will IMO mean if Kate doesn't have it , she will have to wait even longer while the fuss died down.

 

[Dman]

Awwww... you're not weird. You have opinions and make good arguments and stick to what you believe in. I admire that in a man.

Maybe The Queen will soon appoint her to a knighthood and give her the family order at the sametime. Or something like that. I'm just noticing the absence of the family order on the third lady of the land after nearly six years and attending the events where its worn. Little concerning to me. It stands really stands out when she's around the family that has it too.