The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022


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Are we absolutely positively sure that the girls don't have one? As you, yourself, have stated, "The family order isn't a knighthood, but a family Memento. Just pointing out the difference."

I do agree that it is very possible that one of the Queen's requisites for the recipient that marries into the family show willingness to be an actual part of the working "Firm" and have a stable marriage but with being a "memento" and a family type of thing, its very possible also that HM wanted her granddaughters to have one. We'll probably never know unless Bea and Eugenie do attend a formal event in the future.

I don't know. It would be a waste for them to have it, but never able to attend events where it's required to be worn. Also, how fair would it be for them to have it and wear it, but Catherine (who's an actual working senior royal) can't wear hers.

It's just crazy to leave Catherine bare of the family order after all this time and given the events she attends. What's also crazy is that some don't really think it's important.

What would people say if Sophie and Camilla didn't have it? Or even the other European royals like; Mary or Marie. I think some questions would be asked and eyebrows raised.
 
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What would people say if Sophie and Camilla didn't have it? Or even the other European royals like; Mary or Marie. I think some questions would be asked and eyebrows raised.

I would imagine that those in "polite society" would say absolutely nothing. Those that would say something, don't matter. ;)
 
If no one would know the difference between an ivory and a non ivory RFO, the palace would still have to issue a statement that Catherine's was porcelain or it defeats the purpose of a non ivory RFO. Then the second question the press will ask is how much did it cost? The cost today has to be way more than what it cost in 1952 when the ivory one were made. Then if ivory is such a big deal that thousands were spent to make Kate a non ivory one why are the other royal women still wearing a ivory ones. It still makes Kate look like some sort of diva.
 
Camilla didn't have it? Or even the other European royals like; Mary or Marie. I think some questions would be asked and eyebrows raised.

every one of those has at least a from 4 to 6 or even 8 events every year to wear the order kate in her 6 years marriage had only 4 events .
 
If no one would know the difference between an ivory and a non ivory RFO, the palace would still have to issue a statement that Catherine's was porcelain or it defeats the purpose of a non ivory RFO. Then the second question the press will ask is how much did it cost? The cost today has to be way more than what it cost in 1952 when the ivory one were made. Then if ivory is such a big deal that thousands were spent to make Kate a non ivory one why are the other royal women still wearing a ivory ones. It still makes Kate look like some sort of diva.

I'm not sure cost would be a worry. Especially since the only part of the order that would be replaced would be the base of the portrait. The rest of the setting would be exactly the same. No one would really make noise about it, other than reporting that she now have the order.

Also, the palace shouldn't worry about any asked questions for Catherine receiving the order, when it's her place to have it. She's the senior royal and who's attending these State events. The problem is that she shouldn't be without the order after all this time in the first place.

every one of those has at least a from 4 to 6 or even 8 events every year to wear the order kate in her 6 years marriage had only 4 events .

It doesn't matter. Catherine has been attending these events as a senior member of the royal family. She should have the order already.
 
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you do now that she attend only one event every year and just started 3 years ago the only year she attended 2 event a year was because off prince william connection with the chinese state visit .
 
Now I have a question. Is it actually a requirement for those attending such events to wear the RFO or whatever other orders that they've received or is it an opportunity?

Just wondering.
 
Now I have a question. Is it actually a requirement for those attending such events to wear the RFO or whatever other orders that they've received or is it an opportunity?

Just wondering.

I think it's a requirement, but one can opt out of wearing it on occasion. The thing is Catherine would likely wear hers if she had it or William and The Queen would think a new one should be made for her, especially when she's attending the events where it's worn. No since of having it and not wear it.
 
I really doubt we who aren't in that family have anything close to an accurate understanding of what it does or doesn't really mean to them these days, and therefore what to interpret from Kate not having one yet.

For all we know, it could just be that the Queen thinks wearing two (as she does) is not the most comfortable thing given all the other accoutrements that queens wear to state occasions, that three is really the absolute most anyone should be saddled with, and she's decided to spare Kate the potential of ending up with four if she outlives William.
 
Now I have a question. Is it actually a requirement for those attending such events to wear the RFO or whatever other orders that they've received or is it an opportunity?

Just wondering.

it's a requirement if you had it if you don't then no it's not princess michael had been attending banquets for years but she don't ware one cause she don't have one .

I really doubt we who aren't in that family have anything close to an accurate understanding of what it does or doesn't really mean to them these days, and therefore what to interpret from Kate not having one yet.

For all we know, it could just be that the Queen thinks wearing two (as she does) is not the most comfortable thing given all the other accoutrements that queens wear to state occasions, that three is really the absolute most anyone should be saddled with, and she's decided to spare Kate the potential of ending up with four if she outlives William.

if you think thats uncomfortable you should see the ones queen margrethe ii of denmark wear
 
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The difference with Sweden also is that there The King's Miniature is not only worn when in long dress, but also for events with ladies in formal daywear, like christenings, jubilees, state events, etc. In Britain this would mean: the Trooping the Colour or so. Then we would have seen the princesses sporting their RFO while riding down the Mall in formal daywear with hats and gloves.

So indeed, as one of the previous posters remarked: maybe Beatrice and Eugenie, princesses of the blood royal and grandchildren of the Sovereign, have a RFO but we simply have never seen them wearing one by lack of appropriate events to do so...
 
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Anyway, we may expect Catherine with the RFO, any more time it takes, the shorter the wait, let us say.

For the Princess Michael I have the theory that the RFO is for every born senior Princess in the royal family, spouses to Princes in the direct line and by extension spouses of royal Dukes.

This means that junior princesses (like Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise and Michael), as well the future non-royal Duchesses of Gloucester and Kent will not receive the RFO.

This theory means that the RFO will be worn by Camilla, Catherine, the future Princess George, Charlotte, the future Princess Harry, Anne, Sophie, plus Alexandra, Brigitte and Katharine as the remnants of the extended family.
IIRC, Queen Victoria gave hers to all her granddaughters - not just the British princesses (i.e. Marie-Louise and Helena Victoria who also received Edward VII's, George V's and George VI's) and George VI gave his to his niece Princess Alexandra of Kent, who also received QEII's order despite not being in the direct line or a royal duchess. We don't know if Beatrice and Eugenie have received their grandmother's order or not, as they've never attended an event where it would be worn. It comes down to "we just don't know HM's criteria." :flowers: I do however agree that the future non-royal duchess of Gloucester, Kent, and Edinburgh will NOT receive the RFO.
 
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Yes, the order of Victoria and Albert was granted to her extended family including all of her granddaughters, foreign included.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Order_of_Victoria_and_Albert

Princess Alice, countess of althone at the time of her death had five (her grandmother Victoria, her uncle Edward vii, her cousin George v, his son George vi and Elizabeth)

Edward vii rewarded the order, as did his son, to the daughters of his sister Louise, Alexandra and Maude of fife.
 
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I have a theory that makes sense in my head. The Queen's modern day requirement for the RFO is 6 years, unless you are Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall. Think about it, for Sophie, six years, Sarah never got one because her marriage lasted just 6 years 9seperation), and Kate is just getting to the sixth year, so maybe this is her year. Now for the Kents and Gloucesters I think it was when you got married, except Pss Michael.
 
I have a theory that makes sense in my head. The Queen's modern day requirement for the RFO is 6 years, unless you are Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall. Think about it, for Sophie, six years, Sarah never got one because her marriage lasted just 6 years 9seperation), and Kate is just getting to the sixth year, so maybe this is her year. Now for the Kents and Gloucesters I think it was when you got married, except Pss Michael.

Katherine of Kent and Brigitte of Gloucester are royal peeresses, like -before them- Alice of Gloucester, Marina of Kent and Alice of Athlone. Marie-Christine (Princess Michael) is "just" married to a junior prince without a peerage. Maybe there is also a reason.
 
I did notice that the Duchess of Cornwall has the RFO, but the Duchess of Cambridge does not ...

I have a theory that makes sense in my head. The Queen's modern day requirement for the RFO is 6 years, unless you are Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall. Think about it, for Sophie, six years, Sarah never got one because her marriage lasted just 6 years 9seperation), and Kate is just getting to the sixth year, so maybe this is her year. Now for the Kents and Gloucesters I think it was when you got married, except Pss Michael.

But Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie have been in the RF longer than 6 years - do they have the RFO?
 
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Eugenie and Beatrice have never attended an event where they would wear it so we don't know.

As for Camilla and Kate.... Camilla has been married for eleven years to the prince of Wales. And has been a full time working royal for. all that time. Comparably Kate is just about six years and is a part time royal. Their situation is not comparable.
 
Eugenie and Beatrice have never attended an event where they would wear it so we don't know.

As for Camilla and Kate.... Camilla has been married for eleven years to the prince of Wales. And has been a full time working royal for. all that time. Comparably Kate is just about six years and is a part time royal. Their situation is not comparable.

Perhaps if they attend the Coronation Ball - which will happen within the next 10 years at the most I would expect - we will see if Eugenie and Beatrice have the RFO ...
 
The truth is we will never really know who exactly has the RFO as we only know who has it if they wear it. Beatrice, Eugenie and even Zara may have the RFO but we just don't know as we are unlikely to ever see them wear it
 
The York Sisters aren't working members of the family. Zara isn't titled or a working member of the family. They wouldn't have the family orders.

The only person that's due to get it is Catherine. After attending these state events she should have it.
 
It is not needed to be working members. Elizabeth, Margaret and Alexandra are examples of ladies who got the RFO as adolescent or younger. Alice of Athlone, Marina of Kent and Alice Gloucester were doing public events so now and then, in connection with their (husbands') patronages. The all got the RFO. So it seems that having a full royal agenda is not a requirement for a RFO. It is possible that King Charles III will give the RFO to Princess Charlotte while she is still a child. Who knows.
 
The York Sisters aren't working members of the family. Zara isn't titled or a working member of the family. They wouldn't have the family orders.

The only person that's due to get it is Catherine. After attending these state events she should have it.

by that premises then princess michael and Sarah Ferguson should had got the RFO and they have attended far more even't for far more years than kate .
 
What it all boils down to is that the RFO is given by the Queen at her pleasure and we will never know what her reasons for giving it or not giving it is. The only person that could really clear all this up and set the record straight is HM, herself, and she's not talking.

The best any of us can really do is guess.
 
The York Sisters aren't working members of the family. Zara isn't titled or a working member of the family. They wouldn't have the family orders.

The only person that's due to get it is Catherine. After attending these state events she should have it.


I think the only person who can make the call on when the Duchess of Cambridge receives the RFO is The Queen, it is her order after all.

This debate has gone round and round and round and really is becoming rather tedious to read.

Here are the facts - we only know when someone receives the RFO when they appear in public wearing it.

We cannot know the Duchess of Cambridge's personal thoughts on ivory therefore we cannot speculate on whether she has an issue with it.

The Order is in The Queen's personal gift, she makes the rules and decides when to hand it out.

Everything else is pure speculation!


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There's a very silly part of me that likes to think the whole family has decided to play games with royal-watchers heads' by making sure RFOs appear on a seemingly nonsensical schedule. "Catherine, you know I like you, I like you very much, but if I give you an RFO right now they'll be convinced they know my criteria. Let's wait another year or two, make it look like it's tied to, oh, I don't know, how many vacations you've taken. You know, in retrospect, maybe I should have given it to you on your wedding day. That really would have thrown them for a loop!"
 
I think the only person who can make the call on when the Duchess of Cambridge receives the RFO is The Queen, it is her order after all.

This debate has gone round and round and round and really is becoming rather tedious to read.

Here are the facts - we only know when someone receives the RFO when they appear in public wearing it.

We cannot know the Duchess of Cambridge's personal thoughts on ivory therefore we cannot speculate on whether she has an issue with it.

The Order is in The Queen's personal gift, she makes the rules and decides when to hand it out.

Everything else is pure speculation!


Sent from my iPad using The Royals Community

The reason why we keep talking about this year after year is because she's attending these state events with her tiara, but no family order after all this time.

I bet she'll attend this years state banquets and diplomatic reception without it. Although, I'm speculating about the ivory issue, it speaks volumes that she don't have it yet.

I know some might go into the whole marriage rumors...due to unfounded speculations about the family attitudes towards Sarah...but I think it's a down right shame that Catherine is working and serving The Queen, but can't be gifted the family order from the very family she's working for.

That's wrong and very much unfair and people should start talking loud and drawing crowd over this issue.
 
sophia and camilla who are more senior than kate had to wait for years while they were being full time royals and you want kate who for me had been less than a part time royal be given the RFO just because she started to attend one event every year for the last three years ?!!
 
It is her majesty's decision Live with it. :cool:
 
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It is her majesty's decision Live with it. :cool:

Yes, it is her decision. Time to raise some voices in the media and so it can reach the Palace so she can make an actual decision.

I would suggest Richard Palmer, Emily Andrews, Camilla Tominey and others start writing some reports about it and ask the Palace officials about Catherine missing family order. Maybe bring it to the Palace attention would help.
 
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Yes, it is her decision. Time to raise some voices in the media and so it can reach the Palace so she can make an actual decision.

I would suggest Richard Palmer, Emily Andrews, Camilla Tominey and others start writing some reports about it and ask the Palace officials about Catherine missing family order. Maybe bring it to the Palace attention would help.

I would suggest that the ball is now in your court. Over to you
 
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