The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[Duc_et_Pair]

Common sense tells me that Catherine has not received the RFO yet - if she had have done, we would know. If and when she receives the Order, I have no doubt it will not contain ivory and will be made of porcelain or enamel or something.

I agree. It makes no sense to get the RFO and then not wear it.

Her husband is expected to wear an ermine mantle. Hundreds of little ermines were killed for it. What will William do?

Her husband has graduated from Sandhurst and is an officer, an Aide-de-Camp. Usually the handle of their ceremonual sword has an inlay of ivory. What will William do?

Etc. It is noble to stop ivory hunting but it makes no sense to ban all what is already in there. The dead animals will not come back to life, by banning.

 

[Dman]

She may go on to wear the order with ivory included, but do anyone here think the media who (is pretty much upset with the Cambridge's already) will not take William to task on his wife wearing a brooch that includes ivory, when he's pretty much dead set on getting rid of ivory and protecting rhinos and elephants? The man just signed a Buckingham Palace Declaration on ivory. The British media would have a good time releasing attacks.

 

[Nico]

She may go on to wear the order with ivory included, but do anyone here think the media who (is pretty much upset with the Cambridge's already) will not take William to task on his wife wearing a brooch that includes ivory, when he's pretty much dead set on getting rid of ivory and protecting rhinos and elephants? The man just signed a Buckingham Palace Declaration on ivory. The British media would have a good time releasing attacks.

Of course yes. But as William stated about some critics from the press about a supposed workshy attitude : it's part of the job.

 

[Dman]

Of course yes. But as William stated about some critics from the press about a supposed workshy attitude : it's part of the job.

Yeah okay, I guess they will make some changes once Charles and William design their own royal orders.

 

[Von Schlesian]

Her husband has graduated from Sandhurst and is an officer, an Aide-de-Camp. Usually the handle of their ceremonual sword has an inlay of ivory. What will William do?

Only the General Officer's Sword ever included ivory, now replaced by a synthetic.

Should Her Majesty deem it appropriate, she shall no doubt direct the various royal jewellers and manufacturers of insignia to convert from materials that are considered politically incorrect, or harmful to the environment, to various alternatives.


It is not for the Duke of Cambridge or any other member of the Royal Family to dictate terms under which honours or gifts from the sovereign may be given and I'm certain His Royal Highness would never presume to do so.

The Royal Family Order is presented when the Sovereign wishes, so too the Garter, Thistle, Order of Merit, Royal Victorian Chain and Royal Victorian Order (and Order of St Patrick if we are being particularly pedantic). They alone are the prerogative of the monarch, free from the interference of government, so shall we just wait for any kind of announcement to be made, before rumours and supposition become fact?

 

[Dman]

Only the General Officer's Sword ever included ivory, now replaced by a synthetic.

Should Her Majesty deem it appropriate, she shall no doubt direct the various royal jewellers and manufacturers of insignia to convert from materials that are considered politically incorrect, or harmful to the environment, to various alternatives.


It is not for the Duke of Cambridge or any other member of the Royal Family to dictate terms under which honours or gifts from the sovereign may be given and I'm certain His Royal Highness would never presume to do so.

The Royal Family Order is presented when the Sovereign wishes, so too the Garter, Thistle, Order of Merit, Royal Victorian Chain and Royal Victorian Order (and Order of St Patrick if we are being particularly pedantic). They alone are the prerogative of the monarch, free from the interference of government, so shall we just wait for any kind of announcement to be made, before rumours and supposition become fact?

The Royal Family Order isn't a knighthood. It's just a personal family honor and momento that the King or Queen give to female family members. No announcement is made on when it's given. We will only know Catherine has received the order when she is seen wearing it.

 

[Roslyn]

Of course yes. But as William stated about some critics from the press about a supposed workshy attitude : it's part of the job.

Exactly!

I am also a bit concerned about the submission that William should not allow Kate to wear the Order, if she has it, because it is made from ivory and he has spoken out against the use of existing ivory artifacts. Do people in the UK really still believe that a man has the right to dictate what his wife does or does not wear? If Kate has it and won't wear it because SHE believes it is wrong to use existing ivory artifacts, she should have the courage of her convictions and speak up and say so, but not refrain from wearing it merely because her husband doesn't want her to.

 

[Von Schlesian]

The Royal Family Order isn't a knighthood. It's just a personal family honor and momento that the King or Queen give to female family members. No announcement is made on when it's given. We will only know Catherine has received the order when she is seen wearing it.

I didn't realise I had been ambiguous about that point - I was't for a moment suggesting that the Royal Family Order is an order of knighthood. It is however in the Sovereign's personal gift and that is the point I made.

My reference to announcement is referring to the material selected to produce the insignia.

 

[Queen Camilla]

IMO, the Queen expects the women to be devoted to royal life before giving them the RFO or other honors.

Princess Anne was not made Princess Royal until after she gave up her equestrian/jockey career.
She did not receive the RFO until 1969, in her 2nd year doing royal duties.

Sophie did not receive her RFO until she gave up her PR career and then had to wait the 2 years.

Camilla also received the RFO after 2 years of royal duties.

Sarah never received it because throughout her marriage she had a writing career. She never gave up her career so she never received the RFO

Diana received it right away because she never had a career. She is the only one that did not have to wait 2 years. She probably did not receive the GCVO because she was expected to wait 7 years or maybe 9 years to make up for not waiting for the RFO.

Princess Michael never received the RFO, because she too never gave up her career nor was she a 'full time' royal.

Catherine may not have crossed the 'full time' threshold.

There appears to be a pattern of wait after receiving the RFO to receive Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order (GCVO)..

Daughter and Daughter-in-laws
Princess Anne
RFO 1969
GCVO 1974
(5 years)

Camilla
RFO 2007
GCVO 2012
(5 years)

Sophie
RFO 2004
GCVO 2010
(6 years)

Cousin
Princess Alexandra
RFO 1953
GCVO 1960
(7 years)

Cousin-in-law
Katharine
RFO 1961
GCVO 1977
(16 years)

Birgitte
RFO 1973
GCVO 1989
(16 years)

Princess Anne had to wait 13 years for next honor after receiving the GCVO.

Princess Anne had to wait 20 years after receiving the GCVO to receive the Order of the Garter.

 

[Dman]

The Queen makes up the time when to give the family an order. I think The Queen wait too long to give out orders though.

I hope she would be the one to give Catherine the GCVO. If not, Catherine will get it before Charles's Coronation.

 

[Elly C]

With only a few weeks to the Queen's Official birthday, do we think Catherine will get a family order this time? I'm hoping so and think it is likely after the success of the recent tour.

 

[Skippyboo]

They don't announced awarding a RFO. Just have to wear it to confirm receiving it


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Dman]

With only a few weeks to the Queen's Official birthday, do we think Catherine will get a family order this time? I'm hoping so and think it is likely after the success of the recent tour.

I do expect that Catherine have recieved the family order. The Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth II isn't an knighthood, so we won't get an announcement if she have received it. The only way we know she got it is when she attends at State Banquet and Diplomatic Corps Reception where the family order is worn.

Catherine is the only senior female member of the royal family that's up for a knighthood from The Queen. I hope she will be appointed with the Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order (GCVO), or Dame of Justice Venerable Order of Saint John (DJStJ). She have served The Queen and Royal family for 5 years and provided two heirs to the throne. I think she should be honored as a working senior royal.

 

[sophie25]

I think it cheapens the award when an Order is given out to a new royal as soon as they get married. The Danes and Swedes, for example, do this all the time and I think it's silly as it really should be something that is earned or it can't mean anything. On the other hand I think Queen Elizabeth does make family wait an unnecessarily long period of time. Charlene Wittstock was married in the same year as Kate and received her order about a year and a half after her marriage which I think was about right.

 

[hernameispekka]

I think it cheapens the award when an Order is given out to a new royal as soon as they get married. The Danes and Swedes, for example, do this all the time and I think it's silly as it really should be something that is earned or it can't mean anything. On the other hand I think Queen Elizabeth does make family wait an unnecessarily long period of time. Charlene Wittstock was married in the same year as Kate and received her order about a year and a half after her marriage which I think was about right.

I see your point, about how it cheapens it. But it does avoid the "they are not worthy" speculations. They litarly become "now you're part of the royal family" which they are and are already working for them so it makes sense.

 

[Iluvbertie]

There is nothing planned for the birthday celebrations that would allow us to see whether she has the RFO. We only see whether they have it at things like State Dinners.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

Catherine is the only senior female member of the royal family that's up for a knighthood from The Queen. I hope she will be appointed with the Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order (GCVO), or Dame of Justice Venerable Order of Saint John (DJStJ). She have served The Queen and Royal family for 5 years and provided two heirs to the throne. I think she should be honored as a working senior royal.

I don't know if she is considered a senior member of the family or not but Princess Michael has not received a knighthood or the family order. I know she is not always well liked but she and her husband have worked on behalf of the queen. It seems she is intentionally being left out when it comes to these things.

 

[Dman]

There is a State Visit coming up in the fall, and then there's the Diplomatic Corps reception in December. She should have the RFO, by now though. I think Royal Victorian Order would also be due.

I just think it's time for her to have an honor. Why continue to let her attend State events bare of Orders? Don't make much sense to me.

 

[Osipi]

I don't know if she is considered a senior member of the family or not but Princess Michael has not received a knighthood or the family order. I know she is not always well liked but she and her husband have worked on behalf of the queen. It seems she is intentionally being left out when it comes to these things.

As the RFO is exactly what its called, a family order and not ever publicized, perhaps the reason why Princess Michael has never received the RFO are because of the Queen's own personal reasons. We'll never know.

 

[muriel]

There is a State Visit coming up in the fall, and then there's the Diplomatic Corps reception in December. She should have the RFO, by now though. I think Royal Victorian Order would also be due.

I just think it's time for her to have an honor. Why continue to let her attend State events bare of Orders? Don't make much sense to me.

Not sure I see the connection between attending events of state and receiving orders. She will receive the Orders when Hm thinks she has done enough to deserve them.

She could well have received the RFO recently, but I think if will be a while before she receives the RVO. Camilla did not receive hers till her 7th wedding anniversary, and nearly 5-6 years after she had received the RFO.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

With only a few weeks to the Queen's Official birthday, do we think Catherine will get a family order this time? I'm hoping so and think it is likely after the success of the recent tour.

How did you measure the "succes" of the recent tour? The Daily Mail being extactic about Kate's dresses while a week earlier she was slashed down as a Duchess Do-Little? Is that a measurement? The RFO seems not connected to anything, not to seniority, not to merits but just to the very personal consideration of the Queen.

 

[sophie25]

How did you measure the "succes" of the recent tour? The Daily Mail being extactic about Kate's dresses while a week earlier she was slashed down as a Duchess Do-Little? Is that a measurement? The RFO seems not connected to anything, not to seniority, not to merits but just to the very personal consideration of the Queen.

I agree. The Queen can give it to whoever she wants whenever she wants but she's the first Monarch to make family members wait for it. In the past existing royal ladies and ladies marrying into the family got it automatically and when a reign changed they got the new monarch's order straight away as well. It was an indicator that you were royal and wasn't seen as something that had to be earned. I wish it was like that again today as the Queen as other orders which can be seen as awards such as the royal victoriana order.

I also think it is a little bit mean of the Queen not to have given it to Princess Michael after almost 40 years in the family. She might have her own career but she's still done a fair bit if work for the family during that time and I'm sure Prince Michael would like to see her have it as well Jmo.

 

[Nico]

I agree. The Queen can give it to whoever she wants whenever she wants but she's the first Monarch to make family members wait for it. In the past existing royal ladies and ladies marrying into the family got it automatically and when a reign changed they got the new monarch's order straight away as well. It was an indicator that you were royal and wasn't seen as something that had to be earned. I wish it was like that again today as the Queen as other orders which can be seen as awards such as the royal victoriana order.

I also think it is a little bit mean of the Queen not to have given it to Princess Michael after almost 40 years in the family. She might have her own career but she's still done a fair bit if work for the family during that time and I'm sure Prince Michael would like to see her have it as well Jmo.

I guess Princess Michael didn't receive it because her husband was excluded from the order of sucession by marrying her. Technically they are not full time working members of the BRF.

 

[sophie25]

I guess Princess Michael didn't receive it because her husband was excluded from the order of sucession by marrying her. Technically they are not full time working members of the BRF.

I don't think so because the Queen has given Prince Michael the royal victorian order amongst other awards. The reality is that if she wanted PM to get it she would give it to her as it is entirely within her personal gift. It's also very possible that she may give one to all of her granddaughters as a keepsake even though they may never wear it. As I said, the Queen can give this order to whoever she wants.

 

[PetticoatLane]

I think it cheapens the award when an Order is given out to a new royal as soon as they get married. The Danes and Swedes, for example, do this all the time and I think it's silly as it really should be something that is earned or it can't mean anything. On the other hand I think Queen Elizabeth does make family wait an unnecessarily long period of time. Charlene Wittstock was married in the same year as Kate and received her order about a year and a half after her marriage which I think was about right.

I agree. The idea of pinning a sash onto a months old baby is plainly absurd.

Equally, I'm not exactly sure what service Mary Donaldson had performed for Denmark when she got her order before her wedding, let alone that of her father who also got an order.

 

[hernameispekka]

I agree. The idea of pinning a sash onto a months old baby is plainly absurd.

Equally, I'm not exactly sure what service Mary Donaldson had performed for Denmark when she got her order before her wedding, let alone that of her father who also got an order.

It's not for service in those cases. It's a "this person is a member of the royal family" badge. Different ways for different countries. No need to put down one way to lift up another.

 

[wartenberg7]

I think it cheapens the award when an Order is given out to a new royal as soon as they get married. The Danes and Swedes, for example, do this all the time and I think it's silly as it really should be something that is earned or it can't mean anything. On the other hand I think Queen Elizabeth does make family wait an unnecessarily long period of time. Charlene Wittstock was married in the same year as Kate and received her order about a year and a half after her marriage which I think was about right.

Royal Family Orders, different from other orders, are traditionally given as a mark of belonging to a RF, not as a sign of merit. In the old times it meant a special sign of affection of the sovereign towards a royal lady of his/ her house. So it DID mean something, no matter if she did, earned, something for crown and country or not!
The BRF does have some sort of odd order policy in general; I recall King Albert II never receiving the Garter. The Queen Mother only used her british orders at an incoming state visit and obviously turned down the guest´s order. Queen consorts are never awarded with an order by the british Queen while mere Prince consorts are given the Royal Victorian order (only because of being male?!?). Foreign future Kings don´t receive brit. orders as well although the Queen paid a state visit in the country (example: Norway), etc etc etc ......
What I´m trying to say: The british order policy is unlogic and not transparent. A lot of guessing, nobody knows for sure...

 

[sophie25]

It's not for service in those cases. It's a "this person is a member of the royal family" badge. Different ways for different countries. No need to put down one way to lift up another.

Well her father isn't a member of the royal family and the order of the elephant in Denmark, for example, actually isn't restricted to royals and is given to other people who have served the country with distinction. I think the order of the seraphim isn't exclusively for royals either.

 

[wartenberg7]

Well her father isn't a member of the royal family and the order of the elephant in Denmark, for example, actually isn't restricted to royals and is given to other people who have served the country with distinction. I think the order of the seraphim isn't exclusively for royals either.

CPss Mary´s and Alexandra Manleys fathers received the Dannebrog order, not the Elephant who is restricted only to members of the DRF and heads of state!

 

[Stefan]

CPss Mary´s and Alexandra Manleys fathers received the Dannebrog order, not the Elephant who is restricted only to members of the DRF and heads of state!

It is also given to foreign heirs to the throne and even in some cases to other members of foreign RF's like Princess Märtha Louise of Norway.