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  #1181  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
I'm not sure why people are so miffed about this one. The reason she hasn't got it yet really is so simple. The Duchess isn't a full time working member of the Royal Family yet. People can hang up all kinds of sentiment or emotion on it seeing it as a mark of approval or of dislike but really it comes down to the role the individual is playing within the institution.

The Countess of Wessex became a full time working royal in 2002. She got the order in 2004, by which time she had been a member of the Royal Family for around 5 years but had only been a full time working member for two years. The Duchess of Cornwall was married in 2005 and got the order in 2007, two years after her marriage but also having spent those two years as a full time working member of the Royal Family. The Princess Royal is the Queen's daughter and she had to wait until 1969 to get it....when she became a full time working royal.

Kate isn't yet and so she won't be given it until she is. The theories about ivory badges and what not go round and round every time HRH wears a tiara but even the Royal Family's own official website stresses who is and who isn't a full time working member of the family. Kate isn't yet. Princess Michael never has been, that's why she isn't entitled to it.

Having said that, when the new reign beings, all incumbent female members of the Royal Family who are full time working royals will get the RFO of King Charles III. That's the only time it's automatic but even then, they must be full time working royals.
You do know that both the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are now full time working royals right?
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  #1182  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:10 AM
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I knew that the Duke was, I hadn’t seen anything to suggest the Duchess of Cambridge is now. If a statement has been made to that effect recently and I’ve missed it then anyone who wants to see Kate with the RFO only needs to be patient and wait a year or so. The Queen seems to award it two years after someone steps up to full time duties.

A quick google search tells me that it was announced on the 31st August 2017. So it would be far too early for Kate to have the RFO. By a long chalk.
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  #1183  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
I knew that the Duke was, I hadn’t seen anything to suggest the Duchess of Cambridge is now. If a statement has been made to that effect recently and I’ve missed it then anyone who wants to see Kate with the RFO only needs to be patient and wait a year or so. The Queen seems to award it two years after someone steps up to full time duties.
Yes, Catherine is a full time senior working royal.

Catherine has been working as a senior royal since 2011. She’s been conducting royal tours around the U.K. and Commonwealth on The Queen’s behalf for Seven Years. She’s been attending State events, has given birth to two heirs to the throne and currently cooking the third.

You mean to tell me after all this time and work The Queen can’t give Catherine the family order yet?

Love the lady, but The Queen have a problem with orders within the family. You’d think she wouldn’t, because she spends a great deal of time- every year- rewarding strangers with orders and other rewards.

No one is expecting The Queen to give invest Catherine with the Garter yet, but it shouldn’t take pulling teeth for her to give Catherine the family order.

It’s like everyone is saying that Catherine has yet to prove she’s fully committed to royal life.
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  #1184  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:23 AM
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The Duchess of Cambridge has been a member of the family for seven years. She has carried out engagements for seven years. But she hasn’t been a full time working for more than a couple of months. Seniority by precedence doesn’t equal a full time workload. That’s something totally different.

The Queen’s personal criteria for awarding the RFO is that it is only given for a full time working member of the Royal Family after two years in that position. You could of course write to Her Majesty and tell her that the way she’s done things for the past 60 odd years is flawed but I think the Queen knows what she’s doing.
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  #1185  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:28 AM
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The Duke of Edinburgh received his GCVO for ‘services to the monarch’ after 70 years of marriage. Camilla received the same order after 7 years of marriage.

Nothing The Queen does with orders makes sense to me.
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  #1186  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
The Duchess of Cambridge has been a member of the family for seven years. She has carried out engagements for seven years. But she hasn’t been a full time working for more than a couple of months. Seniority by precedence doesn’t equal a full time workload. That’s something totally different.

The Queen’s personal criteria for awarding the RFO is that it is only given for a full time working member of the Royal Family after two years in that position. You could of course write to Her Majesty and tell her that the way she’s done things for the past 60 odd years is flawed but I think the Queen knows what she’s doing.
No, The Queen just enjoy being difficult with orders within the family.

Catherine has worked for the royal family as a senior royal for seven years. She should’ve already had the family order. Right now, one should be wondering when she would be receiving a knighthood, not the family order.

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The Duke of Edinburgh received his GCVO for ‘services to the monarch’ after 70 years of marriage. Camilla received the same order after 7 years of marriage.

Nothing The Queen does with orders makes sense to me.
Exactly. The Queen’s system on family orders are insane, IMO. The late Princess of Wales worked as a senior working royal for sixteen years, but only received the family order. Sophie received the Oder of Saint John only after four years.
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  #1187  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:30 AM
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Princess Michael hasn’t had so much as a DVO after 40 years of marriage. We can only assume the Queen’s criteria based on example which with the RFO is pretty easy to work out. I just don’t get why people are so obsessed about this. What difference does it make if the Duchess hasn’t got it yet?

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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
No, The Queen just enjoy being difficult with orders within the family.



Catherine has worked for the royal family as a senior royal for seven years. She should’ve already had the family order. Right now, one should be wondering when she would be receiving a knighthood, not the family order.


Again, you’re confusing precedence with role. There is the institution and then there is the House of Windsor. Kate has been a member of the Royal House since her marriage. She has performed engagements and duties on behalf of the Queen. All that is absolutely true.

But she was not been a full time working royal before August 2017. It’s not up for debate, by the Royal Family’s own standards, she hasn’t been. Using the word senior doesn’t mean anything. She’s more senior than other members by virtue of precedence yes but that doesn’t in any way relate to her workload.

The Queen isn’t difficult with orders at all. She has a way of doing it that has worked for years. Her rule concerning this particular order is to allow a period of two years after full time working member status.

Why change that now because a few people are seemingly obsessed that Kate doesn’t have it? Why is it so urgent that she gets it before Sophie got it or Camilla or even the Princess Royal?
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  #1188  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
Princess Michael hasn’t had so much as a DVO after 40 years of marriage. We can only assume the Queen’s criteria based on example which with the RFO is pretty easy to work out. I just don’t get why people are so obsessed about this. What difference does it make if the Duchess hasn’t got it yet?
Catherine is a SENIOR WORKING member of the ROYAL FAMILY. Has been since 2011. She should have the family order at least.

I can tell you this wouldn’t be happening to her European counterparts. Mary, Letizia, Máxima, Sofia, and mette-marit have family orders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
Again, you’re confusing precedence with role. There is the institution and then there is the House of Windsor. Kate has been a member of the Royal House since her marriage. She has performed engagements and duties on behalf of the Queen. All that is absolutely true.

But she was not been a full time working royal before August 2017. It’s not up for debate, by the Royal Family’s own standards, she hasn’t been. Using the word senior doesn’t mean anything. She’s more senior than other members by virtue of precedence yes but that doesn’t in any way relate to her workload.

The Queen isn’t difficult with orders at all. She has a way of doing it that has worked for years. Her rule concerning this particular order is to allow a period of two years after full time working member status.

Why change that now because a few people are seemingly obsessed that Kate doesn’t have it? Why is it so urgent that she gets it before Sophie got it or Camilla or even the Princess Royal?
The Queen received her grandfathers (George V) family order in 1935. You tell me what kind of work she did to get that order at that young age?
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  #1189  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:48 AM
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The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations

You can put it in block capitals all you like, it doesn’t change that the Duchess has only been a full time working member of the Royal Family for a few months. There’s nothing that says she should have it and I don’t know that anyone can presume to know better than Her Majesty.

The King of Norway, the King of Sweden and the Queen of Denmark have their own rules. King Charles III may do things differently. But this is the way Queen Elizabeth II does things and I can’t see that there’s anything wrong with it. It’s also worth noting that Kate’s position is not the same position as held by Mette Marit or Mary. They are married to the first in line. Kate is not.

Again, why is it so urgent that Kate gets it right this second?
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  #1190  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
You can put it in block capitals all you like, it doesn’t change that the Duchess has only been a full time working member of the Royal Family for a few months. There’s nothing that says she should have it and I don’t know that anyone can presume to know better than Her Majesty.

The King of Norway, the King of Sweden and the Queen of Denmark have their own rules. King Charles III may do things differently. But this is the way Queen Elizabeth II does things and I can’t see that there’s anything wrong with it. It’s also worth noting that Kate’s position is not the same position as held by Mette Marit or Mary. They are married to the first in line. Kate is not.

Again, why is it so urgent that Kate gets it right this second?
What’s urgent after seven years?
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  #1191  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Catherine is a SENIOR WORKING member of the ROYAL FAMILY. Has been since 2011. She should have the family order at least.

I can tell you this wouldn’t be happening to her European counterparts. Mary, Letizia, Máxima, Sofia, and mette-marit have family orders.
The point being made is that, from how the Queen has operated that a person must be a senior FULL TIME WORKING member of the family FOR TWO YEARS before receiving the RFO. Some senior royals that married into the family started off as senior FULL TIME WORKING royals. Kate has not. She will be classified as having worked two years as a senior FULL TIME WORKING royal in August 2019.

European counterparts don't play into this either. This is at the will of the Queen and her prerogative alone. Nothing else matters about the RFO except what Queen Elizabeth II deems to be right and proper. I'd address all complaints about it to her directly.
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  #1192  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:55 AM
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I don’t care about this stuff anymore because I recognize The Queen have some issues when it comes to family orders.
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  #1193  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The point being made is that, from how the Queen has operated that a person must be a senior FULL TIME WORKING member of the family FOR TWO YEARS before receiving the RFO. Some senior royals that married into the family started off as senior FULL TIME WORKING royals. Kate has not. She will be classified as having worked two years as a senior FULL TIME WORKING royal in August 2019.

European counterparts don't play into this either. This is at the will of the Queen and her prerogative alone. Nothing else matters about the RFO except what Queen Elizabeth II deems to be right and proper. I'd address all complaints about it to her directly.
Thankyou Osipi!

I understand that people would like to see Kate wearing the RFO. I'd like to see Princess Michael wearing one. But this is just how the Queen does things. George V did things differently. George VI set his own example. This is the example we have now and who knows that the next reign will bring? Maybe the RFO will be dropped entirely?

I think people are grouping it with OBEs and GCVOs in that it's seen as some kind of badge of the Queen's approval or affection. If it were, Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie would have had it by now. They don't because....they haven't been a full time working royal for two years. ()
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  #1194  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:07 AM
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Thankyou Osipi!

I understand that people would like to see Kate wearing the RFO. I'd like to see Princess Michael wearing one. But this is just how the Queen does things. George V did things differently. George VI set his own example. This is the example we have now and who knows that the next reign will bring? Maybe the RFO will be dropped entirely?

I think people are grouping it with OBEs and GCVOs in that it's seen as some kind of badge of the Queen's approval or affection. If it were, Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie would have had it by now. They don't because....they haven't been a full time working royal for two years. ()
Princess Michael of Kent isn’t a senior working royal. Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie aren’t working senior royals either.
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  #1195  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:09 AM
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Princess Alexandra isn’t a senior royal. She’s outranked by the Princess Royal and the York Princesses. Yet she has the RFO because she’s a full time working member of the Royal Family.
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  #1196  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:11 AM
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Princess Alexandra isn’t a senior royal. She’s outranked by the Princess Royal and the York Princesses. Yet she has the RFO because she’s a full time working member of the Royal Family.
Princess Alexandra is a senior working royal. She’s been pushed down by The Queen’s children and grandchildren, but she’s a senior royal.
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  #1197  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:16 AM
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Would someone please call up HM at BP and request for her to get on her smart phone and log in here and clear this matter up once and for all?

Even if Beatrice and Eugenie did have the RFO just because the Queen wanted them to have it, we wouldn't know about it. Why? They're never present at occasions where they would even wear it. For all we know, the Queen hasn't presented Princess Michael one for the simple fact that she doesn't like how she wears her hair or her choices of hats. The Queen can do with the RFO whatever she pleases and even give one to Lupo if she wanted to. Oh wait, no she wouldn't. Lupo is a male and the RFO is for females. The stand by that the Queen has decided on is two years as a full time working royal. Not precedence, not rank or file of the color of a dress the woman is wearing but the service given to the monarch in the family "Firm".

The Queen has no issues with the RFO but obviously some people have issues with how the Queen decides to do things.
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  #1198  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:18 AM
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Perfectly put Osipi. I still don’t understand why it’s so vital that Kate receive it immediately but I think we’re just going round in circles. I’ll leave it to other posters to make their own attempts!
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  #1199  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:21 AM
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Would someone please call up HM at BP and request for her to get on her smart phone and log in here and clear this matter up once and for all?

Even if Beatrice and Eugenie did have the RFO just because the Queen wanted them to have it, we wouldn't know about it. Why? They're never present at occasions where they would even wear it. For all we know, the Queen hasn't presented Princess Michael one for the simple fact that she doesn't like how she wears her hair or her choices of hats. The Queen can do with the RFO whatever she pleases and even give one to Lupo if she wanted to. Oh wait, no she wouldn't. Lupo is a male and the RFO is for females. The stand by that the Queen has decided on is two years as a full time working royal. Not precedence, not rank or file of the color of a dress the woman is working but the service given to the monarch in the family "Firm".

The Queen has no issues with the RFO but obviously some people have issues with how the Queen decides to do things.
So The Queen is waiting for two years to see if Catherine is fully committed to royal service after the woman has been committed to royal service since 2011?

The Queen waited to give Prince Philip the Victorian Order after 70 years. I guess he had to prove he was fully committed to royal service to get it. Funny how Camilla and other members of the family proved their commitment earlier than he did.
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  #1200  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:25 AM
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I don’t care about this stuff anymore because I recognize The Queen have some issues when it comes to family orders.
If you really did not care about it, ypu would not enter into this debate with enthusiasm every time Kate wears a tiara!
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