The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[cepe]

The fact is we don't know whether she received it or not. what we do know is that there are nopictures of her wearing it.

In the same way Catherine could have had the RFO for that last 18 months but we don't know because there are no pictures.

most royal pundits say Sarah never received it; they are the same people who say Catherine "will" receive it and wear it to the Chinese State Banquet which she has not been confirmed as attending by BP.

It is within the personal gift of the monarch. there is also a school of thought that says it is given to princesses of the blood, usually when they are young. Looking back, research shows that, so Beatrice and Eugenie may have it. Zara would not qualify.

nothing straightforward in the BRF

 

[Mermaid1962]

Sarah started being an embarrassment to HM within a year of her marriage to Andrew, a year before the birth of their first child. Scroll down to the fourth picture. Fergie and Di poke umbrellas | Lisa's History Room

 

[Blog Real]

The fact is we don't know whether she received it or not. what we do know is that there are nopictures of her wearing it.

In the same way Catherine could have had the RFO for that last 18 months but we don't know because there are no pictures.

most royal pundits say Sarah never received it; they are the same people who say Catherine "will" receive it and wear it to the Chinese State Banquet which she has not been confirmed as attending by BP.

It is within the personal gift of the monarch. there is also a school of thought that says it is given to princesses of the blood, usually when they are young. Looking back, research shows that, so Beatrice and Eugenie may have it. Zara would not qualify.

nothing straightforward in the BRF

They can receive the RFO and never appear to use it?

 

[Mermaid1962]

It's such a high honour that I can't imagine someone not wearing it. For one thing, it would be an insult to the Queen not to. Plus, given the flamboyant character that Sarah is, I think she'd have worn it whenever she could.

 

[Molly2101]

Because in the eyes of the Queen she didn't deserve it. It's as simple as that. That's why Princess Michael didn't receive it either (and why the RVO was never awarded to Diana).

The RVO I find an odd one as Sophie was given a GCVO before Andrew and Edward. I know they had the previous RVO's but the fact that Sophie was given the highest one above her husband and brother-in-law was odd.

I guess we will never know why Sarah or Princess Michael never received the award. I imagine Princess Michael doesn't have it as she doesn't technically do "royal jobs", whereas the other female family members do.

Does anyone think that Beatrice and Eugenie (and even Zara or Louise when she is older) have the order? Of course we will never see them wearing it unless they suddenly attend a state occasion, but is it likely they would ever receive it?

 

[Dman]

The RVO I find an odd one as Sophie was given a GCVO before Andrew and Edward. I know they had the previous RVO's but the fact that Sophie was given the highest one above her husband and brother-in-law was odd.

I guess we will never know why Sarah or Princess Michael never received the award. I imagine Princess Michael doesn't have it as she doesn't technically do "royal jobs", whereas the other female family members do.

Does anyone think that Beatrice and Eugenie (and even Zara or Louise when she is older) have the order? Of course we will never see them wearing it unless they suddenly attend a state occasion, but is it likely they would ever receive it?

Well, it was odd, but I guess that's due to the very close relationship Sophie and The Queen have.

I'm not sure Beatrice & Eugenie will get it.

We can direct the conversation to this thread:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...er-royal-orders-and-decorations-12757-20.html

 

[Osipi]

Isn't it the norm that the orders are only worn for very specific events such as state dinners and such when all the bling comes out? Beatrice and Eugenie may very well have had theirs for years but as they've never really attended an event where it would be worn, we have no idea if they have or not.

 

[Skippyboo]

The Queen has a George V order and she was only ten when he died so it's possible that her female grandchildren could already have her RFO but they don't attend tiara type events where it would be worn. The only reason to believe that the younger royals don't have it is that the Queen has a reputation of being stingy with giving out honors. This I find interesting that it wasn't always like that with the previous reigns. Elizabeth and Margaret received their grandfather's RFO as a child. Her father made Philip a Knight of Garter on the eve of their wedding but the Queen hasn't made any Royal spouse a Garter member herself.


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[HRHHermione]

I would assume that the Royal Family Order is almost a given to those who are born into the Royal Family, like Beatrice and Eugenie- something that designates them as princesses of the blood and granddaughters of the Queen.

I think it's different with women who marry into the family- the Queen seems to wait until she feels like they've done some service to the family, or served the firm. I imagine a big part of Kate's getting it will be that she's had children that are the future of the monarchy.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

I imagine Princess Michael doesn't have it as she doesn't technically do "royal jobs", whereas the other female family members do.

I was under the impression that both Prince and Princess Michael do a lot of work on behalf of the queen.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Prince and Princess Michael occasionally attend major royal events such as Trooping the Colour and sometimes a garden party or state banquet but they don't do much else officially for the Queen. My count for the year is Michael 8 and Marie-Christine 6.


Beatrice and Eugenie are the only HRHs who have done fewer official engagements.

 

[Stefan]

. Her father made Philip a Knight of Garter on the eve of their wedding but the Queen hasn't made any Royal spouse a Garter member herself.


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I think with the Garter it was different because it was a man who married into the RF and not a woman. When die Prince Albert receive hi? Also at his Wedding to Queen Victoria?
And the Garter was/is not given to female spouses except for Queen's who get it after their husbands became King.

 

[wbenson]

What happens to their orders when they die...do they go into safekeeping or to a family member (as a memento)?

Generally the more rare and valuable insignia has to be returned and the less valuable insignia can be kept by the family. For example, with the Order of the Garter, nearly everything has to be returned, but with the Royal Victorian Order the family can keep everything except the gold collar given to a knight grand cross.

The arrangements for the Royal Family Order are private, but given the number of diamonds on the badge I wouldn't be surprised if they were returned after the death of the recipient.

When die Prince Albert receive hi? Also at his Wedding to Queen Victoria?

Two months before, actually. And Prince Leopold got his the same year he married Princess Charlotte.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The badges of the Royal Family Order are made of precious material and encrusted with diamonds. When Sarah was around, Queen Elizabeth, the Princess of Wales, the Princess Margaret and Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester were alive. All of them were ladies with multiple RFO badges. So when these ladies died, nine of those little artworks became "available" for new distribution. At that time however, Sarah was already out of the picture.

HM Queen Elizabeth, the Queen-Mother with two badges (George VI and Elizabeth II):
see picture.

HRH The Princess of Wales with one badge (Elizabeth II):
see picture.

HRH The Princess Margaret with three badges (George V, George VI, Elizabeth II):
see picture.

HRH Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester with three badges (George V, George VI and Elizabeth II):
see picture.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Princess Michael never receive the Order of the Royal Family;

As far as I'm ware the only British decoration Marie Christine has received is the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal.

 

[Curryong]

Wouldn't the Queen Mother have received three badges, the same as her sister in law, Alice of Gloucester? After all, she was married to the Duke of York in 1923, nearly thirteen years before her father in law, King George V, died.

 

[JessRulz]

The Queen Mother did have the George V RFO (which Wiki says was on a white ribbon, but looks light blue in most photos I've seen?) - see this image. I've read that after her daughter became Queen, the Queen Mother rarely wore all three RFOs she had, choosing to only wear her husband's (pink) and her daughter's (yellow).

 

[An Ard Ri]

There are currently more deceased members than living members of the Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth II!


Deceased


Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother
Queen Mary, wife of King George V and grandmother of Queen Elizabeth II
Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon, sister of Queen Elizabeth II
Diana, Princess of Wales, daughter-in-law of Queen Elizabeth II
Princess Mary, Princess Royal and Countess of Harewood, aunt of Queen Elizabeth II
Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, aunt of Queen Elizabeth II
Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent, aunt of Queen Elizabeth II
Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, first cousin twice removed and grandaunt of Queen Elizabeth II

Current

The Princess Anne, Princess Royal, daughter of Queen Elizabeth II
Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, daughter-in-law of Queen Elizabeth
Sophie, Countess of Wessex
Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Ogilvy, cousin of Queen Elizabeth II
Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester, cousin-in-law of Queen Elizabeth II
Katharine, Duchess of Kent, cousin-in-law of Queen Elizabeth II

 

[sophie25]

I don't think you have to do "official" work for the Queen to get an honour from her. Prince Michael received the Grand Cross of the RVO from her in recognition of the work he had carried out on her and the royal family's behalf. He has done lots of things over the years and the Queen was obviously grateful for his contribution. Bearing in mind that his wife has been by his side on many of these occasions I do think she ought to have been given the RFO by now.

 

[Skippyboo]

There isn't any set rules. It's not like you have to do so many years of the official duties and then they give to you. The Queen and Margaret got a RFO from their grandfather as small children. They weren't doing anything to earn them. It just up to the monarch of the day to decide.


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[AdmirerUS]

What happens to their orders when they die...do they go into safekeeping or to a family member (as a memento)?


LaRae

It depends on the order. I was able to read about this with a "royal family order" search, I think.

 

[Stefan]

There isn't any set rules. It's not like you have to do so many years of the official duties and then they give to you. The Queen and Margaret got a RFO from their grandfather as small children. They weren't doing anything to earn them. It just up to the monarch of the day to decide.


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And Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester must have gotten hers also very early because the King died not even 3 months after her marriage.

 

[Rocketmom]

There was much discussion among Kate's blogger fans regarding her receiving the Royal Family Order from the Queen before the Chinese state visit. Upon seeing photos of the dinner, we know now that she did not receive it. If the Queen should die before bestowing that honor on Kate, would it then be Charles' picture on the award or is this strictly a Queen Elizabeth thing that Charles might or might not continue?

 

[Osipi]

There was much discussion among Kate's blogger fans regarding her receiving the Royal Family Order from the Queen before the Chinese state visit. Upon seeing photos of the dinner, we know now that she did not receive it. If the Queen should die before bestowing that honor on Kate, would it then be Charles' picture on the award or is this strictly a Queen Elizabeth thing that Charles might or might not continue?

I'm sure that Charles, as King, could very well do away with the RFO if he wanted to but I really don't think he will. He's too much of a traditionalist. He may, however, change the material that the portrait is painted on instead of using ivory.

At the Chinese state banquet, HM wore the RFOs of her father and her grandfather so it is definitely not a QEII thing.

 

[Skippyboo]

The RFO started with George IV so it's not a recent thing. I would think from now on the RFO would not be on ivory for future monarchs.


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[Dman]

Don't think the used of ivory was thought about when the RFO were being made in the past. Perhaps a new Order will be made for Catherine and new ones will be used by the royals in the future.

 

[Skippyboo]

Queen Mary had one for the Queen and she died couple of weeks before the coronation in 1953 so they were made in 1952/1953. Ivory wasn't a concern then that it is now. No way can they use ivory for future ones.


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[Duc_et_Pair]

I find the RFO pretty discutable. Either you give all Princesses of the House an Order (á la Norway and Sweden) or you do not give any such Order at all. But to leave it all "at the Queen's pleasure" and keeping it absolutely unclear who, when, where and why a lady receives such an Order or not, this is just divisive inside a family and is absurd.

When the rule is that daughers (in law) of a Sovereign or a Heir all receive the Family Order, then it is clear. But all this misty doing-and-not-doing is unworthy towards the ladies in question because it derails into a sort "competition" and into "first rank and second rank"-ladies which is absurd for 2015.

I hope King Charles III or King William V will review this strange system.

 

[Dman]

I find the RFO pretty discutable. Either you give all Princesses of the House an Order (á la Norway and Sweden) or you do not give any such Order at all. But to leave it all "at the Queen's pleasure" and keeping it absolutely unclear who, when, where and why a lady receives such an Order or not, this is just divisive inside a family and is absurd.

When the rule is that daughers (in law) of a Sovereign or a Heir all receive the Family Order, then it is clear. But all this misty doing-and-not-doing is unworthy towards the ladies in question because it derails into a sort "competition" and into "first rank and second rank"-ladies which is absurd for 2015.

I hope King Charles III or King William V will review this strange system.

Well, it seems the ones that get the Order are senior working female members of the royal family. I think that for the best, but I think the Order's should be announced and it shouldn't take such a long time to get it. Like Catherine, she's been working within the "Firm" since 2011. She has accompanied William on official royal tours since 2011, including a big Diamond Jubliee Tour. She has represented The Queen and Country abroad on those tours and she carry out an official diary of engagements around the UK. She has also provided two heirs to the throne. She should have her RFO by now. If not by her 5th wedding anniversary. The idea of having to wait years and years to get a pat on the back in a very demanding job like that is just off, IMO.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

When such a family hands out Orders, then Catherine should have become hers at the wedding: "You are now part of Our Family, welcome, dearest Catherine!".

In all other European monarchies the consort to the Heir is created a Dame Grand-Cross into the same Order shared by the Heir: St Olav for Mette-Marit, the Seraphim for Daniel, the Elephant for Mary, the Lion for Máxima, the Léopold for Mathilde, etc. Only in the UK Diana, Camilla and Catherine receive nothing, not even a RFO, they have to "wait" and have no idea when mommy-in-law or grandmaman-in-law will be "pleased" enough to "honour" them. No, this system is ripe for revision.