The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[Dman]

I think the Reagan family has been able to keep the late President's Garter chain and badge and its part of the exhibition at Reagan Library.

 

[Nico]

I think the Reagan family has been able to keep the late President's Garter chain and badge and its part of the exhibition at Reagan Library.

I would be very surprised to learn that a President did receive the Garter. Maybe you're referring to the Order of The Bath ?

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-06-14/news/mn-2281_1_knighthood-british-empire-queen-s-warning

 

[PetticoatLane]

The collar of the Order of the Garter is definitely returned when a member dies. In the documentary 'The Queen's Castle' from about 10 years ago, the Crown Jeweller reveals that each collar had just been valued at £250k (~ $390k USD) each. The one worn by the Duke of Abercorn, he goes on to reveal, is 350 years old.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I think the Reagan family has been able to keep the late President's Garter chain and badge and its part of the exhibition at Reagan Library.

President Reagan was made an Honourary Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath.

It goes Garter, Thistle, Bath.

 

[GömdNatt]

There will be honors William will award his wife, but I think it's Charles that will invest Catherine with the Garter.

and that goes against history. Catherine probably won't get the RVO until at least 2020, at the earliest. Camilla only waited seven years, but she is quite older. Sophie waited 11 years, the Duchess of Kent waited 16 years, and the Duchess of Gloucester waited 17 years. So Catherine probably has at least 10 years to wait, unless the Queen dies before then. I think it's possible, that if the Queen dies before W&K have reached their 10th anniversary, that Charles will give Catherine the RVO not long after becoming King.

Charles will give Camilla the Garter when he's King and Catherine will receive the Garter from William when he's King. Unless we see W&K step up and become full fledged working members, then possibly Charles may give Catherine the Garter when he's King, but it's unlikely. Sure, he may want to do things his own way, but I think he's also very keenly aware of history and how things have been done. Albert received the Garter from his Queen, Alexandra received hers from her King, Mary from hers, and Elizabeth from hers. Philip was a unique case, true, but not so different from Albert, I think. It's just that at the time of Albert's marriage, his wife was already Queen. I believe Camilla will receive the Garter from Charles and Catherine from William, should they both become King.

also, the idea that Charles will have a short rule is possible, but considering that his father is in his 90s and he has had several family members live up to the 100s, Charles could rule for 20 years. If Elizabeth dies at 100 and Charles dies at 100, that still gives him a 20+ year rule. Not short by any means. Certainly we don't know what's in store, but genetics have shown that Liz and Charles could both live for quite a long time.

 

[Dman]

and that goes against history. Catherine probably won't get the RVO until at least 2020, at the earliest. Camilla only waited seven years, but she is quite older. Sophie waited 11 years, the Duchess of Kent waited 16 years, and the Duchess of Gloucester waited 17 years. So Catherine probably has at least 10 years to wait, unless the Queen dies before then. I think it's possible, that if the Queen dies before W&K have reached their 10th anniversary, that Charles will give Catherine the RVO not long after becoming King.

Charles will give Camilla the Garter when he's King and Catherine will receive the Garter from William when he's King. Unless we see W&K step up and become full fledged working members, then possibly Charles may give Catherine the Garter when he's King, but it's unlikely. Sure, he may want to do things his own way, but I think he's also very keenly aware of history and how things have been done. Albert received the Garter from his Queen, Alexandra received hers from her King, Mary from hers, and Elizabeth from hers. Philip was a unique case, true, but not so different from Albert, I think. It's just that at the time of Albert's marriage, his wife was already Queen. I believe Camilla will receive the Garter from Charles and Catherine from William, should they both become King.

also, the idea that Charles will have a short rule is possible, but considering that his father is in his 90s and he has had several family members live up to the 100s, Charles could rule for 20 years. If Elizabeth dies at 100 and Charles dies at 100, that still gives him a 20+ year rule. Not short by any means. Certainly we don't know what's in store, but genetics have shown that Liz and Charles could both live for quite a long time.

One must remember, there's no rule book on how long it takes for members of the royal family to receive these Orders. It's all made up by the family. Most likely Charles will award some honors to his daughter-in-law, as she would be Princess of Wales while he's on the throne.

I don't believe Catherine is too far off from receiving the RVO. The Order of the Garter may be far off, until Charles is on the throne, but the Orders that should be awarded to Catherine, Royal Family Order and later the Royal Victorian Order should be coming her way soon. She deserve a pat on the back, IMO.

 

[GömdNatt]

One must remember, there's no rule book on how long it takes for members of the royal family to receive these Orders. It's all made up by the family. Most likely Charles will award some honors to his daughter-in-law, as she would be Princess of Wales while he's on the throne.

I don't believe Catherine is too far off from receiving the RVO. The Order of the Garter may be far off, until Charles is on the throne, but the Orders that should be awarded to Catherine, Royal Family Order and later the Royal Victorian Order should be coming her way soon. She deserve a pat on the back, IMO.

There's no rule, but there's a consistency in the way the orders are handed out. If she doesn't have it already, Catherine will get the RFO in 2015. But no, the RVO is years away. To say she's earned it is far fetched. I like her as much as the next person, but she's not earned it. Not yet. A pat on the back is one thing, the RVO is another. It's a very esteemed order and for her to get it, she's going to have put in many more years of hard work. Sophie started out slow and then began putting in her time and she got it. Catherine will get it in due time, but I think it would be a huge mistake for her to get it before 2020, at the earliest, unless, as I said, she takes a huge step forward, which is possible.

You don't give out the RVO as a pat on the back, imo. It's a bit more important than that.

 

[Rudolph]

Again the 'earning' is in the eyes of the Queen. I have no idea when Catherine will receive the RVO but William was made a Knight of the Garter at 25 while his uncles were in their 40s so its quite possible Catherine will receive the RVO sooner rather than later.

 

[GömdNatt]

Again the 'earning' is in the eyes of the Queen. I have no idea when Catherine will receive the RVO but William was made a Knight of the Garter at 25 while his uncles were in their 40s so its quite possible Catherine will receive the RVO sooner rather than later.

William is also the heir of the heir, his uncles are not. Charles was only 10 when he was given the Garter. Heirs live under different rules for the Garter.

Of course earning is in the eye of the Queen and what we've seen from others is that Catherine, likely, has a ways to go. Sure, it's entirely possible that Catherine will receive the RVO in 2016 or even in 2015. and it's entirely possible that HM will pass next year.

All I'm saying is that based on history, Catherine will not be getting the RVO any time soon, unless she really steps it up, which is possible.

 

[Rudolph]

Only the Prince of Wales is required to be a member of the Garter, not William but using the logic that William was made a knight because he is the heir to the heir, we can apply that to Catherine. She is in a different position to all other royal woman except Camilla.

Again I have no idea when Catherine will receive the RVO but I wouldn't be shocked if t came sooner rather than later given her position in the family

 

[Dman]

Again the 'earning' is in the eyes of the Queen. I have no idea when Catherine will receive the RVO but William was made a Knight of the Garter at 25 while his uncles were in their 40s so its quite possible Catherine will receive the RVO sooner rather than later.

She also made him Knight of the Thistle early on too.

 

[GömdNatt]

Only the Prince of Wales is required to be a member of the Garter, not William but using the logic that William was made a knight because he is the heir to the heir, we can apply that to Catherine. She is in a different position to all other royal woman except Camilla.

Again I have no idea when Catherine will receive the RVO but I wouldn't be shocked if t came sooner rather than later given her position in the family

I think in consideration of the Garter, you can't compare her to Sophie or Anne, yes, but in consideration of the RVO, you can. The RVO is given to more people than the Garter.

There's a timetable, in a sense, for the orders. Of course your work ethic has a lot to do with it, but that plays into how long you're in the family as well. Catherine is still very new and she hasn't done much for the family. Yes, she has done somethings and I think she's gotten better, but she's still got a long way to go.

I'm not overly familiar with the work ethic of Camilla, but I know she's done well since marrying in. Obviously there was a bit of sensitivity that came with her marrying into the family, but I think she's proven herself and did so fairly quickly.

I would be shocked if Catherine gets the RVO before 2020, or before Liz's death (if she should pass before then.) As her work goes right now, she's not done enough to deserve it. Clearly my opinion doesn't sway anyone and matters little as A.) I'm not the Queen and b.) I'm not a British subject. I can only speak as someone who's followed royalty for a while.

I do find it interesting that some here believe she is more than deserving of the RVO so soon.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The previous Princess of Wales received her RFO very early. On this picture she wears the RFO together with the only foreign Royal Order. In 1982 Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands made her a Lady Grand Cross in the Order of the Crown (The House of Orange Order).

So Diana got her RFO with turbo speed.

 

[GömdNatt]

The previous Princess of Wales received her RFO very early. On this picture she wears the RFO together with the only foreign Royal Order. In 1982 Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands made her a Lady Grand Cross in the Order of the Crown (The House of Orange Order).

So Diana got her RFO with turbo speed.

yes and Camilla got hers in 2007. A little longer, but I think that was kind of expected due to the public opinion of Camilla. I do think Catherine already has it or she'll get it next year.

 

[Rudolph]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is there is no rhyme or reason to any of this.

The orders that are within the Queen's prerogative to bestow are given out as she sees fit and no explanation is ever given.

 

[Dman]

The Royal Family Order is usually the first order a senior female member of the royal get from The Queen. It's usually award early on. It's one of the reasons why I think Catherine has received this already or will receive in the new year.

Unfortunately, Diana only received The Royal Family Order from The Queen. After all the years of her work within the "Firm", she got nothing else from Her Majesty. Her only two Orders she received was, Grand Cross in the Order of the Crown (Netherlands) and Order of the Virtues (Egypt). No other member of the British royal family have the Egyptian Order other than, The Queen.

I think despite her marital problems, Diana deserved more honors from The Queen.

 

[Bryce]

Also, William might have received his Garter earlier than he might have otherwise so that he could be granted the 1,000th Garter on the rolls.

 

[Queen Camilla]

yes and Camilla got hers in 2007. A little longer, but I think that was kind of expected due to the public opinion of Camilla.

The Queen doesn't go by public opinion when handling out honors.

Diana deserved more honors from The Queen.

The Queen hands out the honors and the Queen did not think Diana deserved another one.

 

[tommy100]

Also, William might have received his Garter earlier than he might have otherwise so that he could be granted the 1,000th Garter on the rolls.

I agree, I'm sure once it was realised it was going to be the 1,000th Garter minds turned to who to bestow this extra special honour, a future King ranked highly I'm sure!

 

[Queen Camilla]

Five years into her marriage, Sophie received the Royal Family Order of Elizabeth II.

Six years into her marriage, Sophie was made Dame Justice of the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of Saint John of Jerusalem.

Eleven years into the marriage, Sophie was made Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order.

Two years into the marriage, Camilla received the Royal Family Order of Elizabeth II.

Seven years into the marriage, Camilla was made Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order.

Ten years into the marriage, Camilla may be made Dame Justice of the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of Saint John of Jerusalem.

Catherine may follow a similar patch.

Three to five years into the marriage, she might receive the Royal Family Order of Elizabeth II.

Six or seven years into the marriage, she might be made either Dame Justice of the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of Saint John of Jerusalem or Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order.

Ten years into the marriage, she might receive the Order she did not receive in her 6th or 7th year of marriage.

 

[Dman]

The Queen doesn't go by public opinion when handling out honors.



The Queen hands out the honors and the Queen did not think Diana deserved another one.

Then I think she was wrong. Despite her marital issues, Diana dedicated herself to service and duty for fifteen years on behalf of the Queen, "firm" and the people. She deserved honors and recognition for her years of work with countless charitable causes and her role as Princess of Wales and future Queen. She was treated very much unfairly, IMO.

I think with the Queen learned to recognize the hard work and dedication her new daughter-in-laws give to the Monarchy and have given them the recognition they deserve.

I hope Catherine don't have to wait ten to fifteen years to be recognized for her hard work and duty.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Actually Diana stopped representing the Queen after 11 years of marriage per Jephson.

The Queen knows better than us what went on in the Wales marriage.

IMO, it was because of the breakup on the Wales' marriage that Sarah never received the Royal Family Order of Elizabeth II.

The Wales marriage fell apart 5 years into marriage and the Queen waited 5 years to see if the York & Wessex marriage would work.

One did and one did not. Sophie received the Royal Family Order of Elizabeth II and Sarah did not.

 

[Dman]

Actually Diana stopped representing the Queen after 10 years of marriage per Jephson.

The Queen knows better than us what went on in the Wales marriage.

IMO, it was because of the breakup on the Wales' marriage that Sarah never received the Royal Family Order of Elizabeth II.

The Wales marriage fell apart 5 years into marriage and the Queen waited 5 years to see if the York & Wessex marriage would work.

One did and one did not. Sophie received the Royal Family Order of Elizabeth II and Sarah did not.

Diana served and did her duty all the way up to her death. I think she deserved some recognition from the Queen and didn't get it. I just think that was wrong. After just seven years, Camilla received The Royal Victorian Order. I just thought that was deserved but interesting.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Obviously what we see as 'service to the monarch' and what The Queen regards in that way is different - and making her sons happy I suspect is a major consideration - Diana and Sarah were unable to fulfil that part of the job of being a 'wife' and as the mother of those sons that was an important 'service to the monarch' that the wives are expected to be able to achieve. If Kate is still able to make William happy in a few years time than Kate may have earned the recognition but the jury is still out due to the newness of the relationship within the Firm.

 

[Dman]

Obviously what we see as 'service to the monarch' and what The Queen regards in that way is different - and making her sons happy I suspect is a major consideration - Diana and Sarah were unable to fulfil that part of the job of being a 'wife' and as the mother of those sons that was an important 'service to the monarch' that the wives are expected to be able to achieve. If Kate is still able to make William happy in a few years time than Kate may have earned the recognition but the jury is still out due to the newness of the relationship within the Firm.

I think to be fair, Diana tried and did her best as HRH The Princess of Wales. She provided two heirs to the throne and served the "Firm." She could only do her half, it was up to Charles to do his. They both failed the marriage but I think Diana still deserved some recognition for her years of service and duty. It was a shame that never happened after fifteen years.

I just hope Catherine isn't made to wait years and years to be recognized with honors as a senior royal and wife to the second in line to the throne.

 

[PetticoatLane]

She also basically went to war with "The Firm" while simultaneously trashing her children's father as publicly as possible, including basically telling the world that he doesn't have what it takes to be King. By suggesting that the heir to the throne is incapable, Diana essentially undermined totally the very premise of monarchy and made HM's job far more difficult than it would have been otherwise. I'm not surprised she didn't give her any other honours.

 

[Queen Camilla]

There is a separate thread for Diana and her orders.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f38/diana-s-royal-orders-2546.html

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[...]
Unfortunately, Diana only received The Royal Family Order from The Queen. After all the years of her work within the "Firm", she got nothing else from Her Majesty. Her only two Orders she received was, Grand Cross in the Order of the Crown (Netherlands) and Order of the Virtues (Egypt). No other member of the British royal family have the Egyptian Order other than, The Queen.

[....]

The problem is the lack of reprocity, an euphemism for gender discrimination, by the Queen. Female spouses of visiting heads of state (or other royals) never get an Order. Male spouses do, see the late Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, see the late Prince Claus of the Netherlands, see Prince Henrik of Denmark.

State Visits are protocollary a very complicated business. Everything is worked out in details. Queen Beatrix decided not to answer pettiness with pettiness and granted the Princess of Wales a Dutch Order. Usually the awarding of Orders is also something a minister has to countersign (with doing so taking political responsibility for the decision).

The Prince of Wales already was Knight Grand Cross in the Order of Orange-Nassau, the second highest civil Order in the Netherlands. Logically the Princess of Wales should now be created a Lady Grand Cross in the same Order. Instead of making it all official (which needs British agreement) Queen Beatrix "just" gave Diana the House of Orange Order, which is a dynastic Order in her full prerogative. No any political decisionmaking is needed, it is full to Her Majesty's wishes. So apparently it was Queen Beatrix' personal wish that Diana should receive this Order.

Last year in Amsterdam (see picture) the Prince of Wales decided to wear the same Order as his first spouse did in 1982, the House of Orange Order. This while he has a higher Dutch Order. Maybe because he regarded this decoration "higher" because it was awarded on personal base.

The answer why Diana (and Camilla) have so less (foreign) Orders is the lack of reciprocity by Queen Elizabeth. Maybe my President wanted to give Diana or Camilla the Ordre National du Mérite (the second highest Order in France). But when Queen Elizabeth does not give Madame Mitterand, Madame Chirac or Madame Sarkozy an Order, then the French President will -of course- not anwer this to Diana or Camilla....

 

[MARG]

And you know that all these people, foreign royalty, diplomats, etc. having been "dismissed" by QEII, threw their toys out of their cots and refused to recognise her daughter's-in-law, how?

 

[Queen Camilla]

Sophie began working for the firm 'fulltime' in 2002 and received the RFO in 2004, in her 3rd year as a 'fulltime working royal'.

Camilla began working for the firm 'fulltime' in 2005 and received the RFO in 2007, in her 3rd year as a 'fulltime' working royal'.

Sophie received the GCVO in 2010 during her 9th year as a 'fulltime' royal.

Camilla received the GCVO in 2012 during her 8th year as a 'fulltime' royal.

I see the Queen treating her daughter-in-laws the same. I expect she will treat her granddaughter-in-law the same way. (Camilla received the GCVO a year earlier because it was a Jubillee year.)