The Protocol Thread

[King of the Jungle]

It's sad that The Duke of York's poor judgement in behaviour and association brought ramifications to other family members. ie changes to flag flying protocol.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

However, not only the Duke of York's birthday (February 19) has been removed from the list. In 2021, the list of designated days for flying the Union Flag on UK government buildings included the birthdays of:

the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh
the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall
the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge
the Duke of York
the Earl and Countess of Wessex
the Princess Royal

In the updated list for 2022, the designated birthdays have been trimmed down to the Queen and the Prince of Wales.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/designat...on-flag-flying

The same changes have been made to the list of royal birthdays designated for the tolling of the bells at Westminster Abbey. Prior to the Covid-19 pandemic, the bells were rung on the royal birthdays designated as flag days as well as the birthdays of the Cambridge children - but not, for some peculiar reason, the birthday of the Duke of Sussex.

The list of royal birthdays designated as bell-ringing days (already temporarily reduced by the pandemic) will now be permanently slimmed down to the Queen and the Prince of Wales, corresponding to the flag-flying days.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-fa...royal-fanfare/

The bells of Westminster Abbey will not ring for the Duke, who missed out on the celebration last year due to Covid-19 restrictions but was given the honour in 2020, even after his Newsnight interview about his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

The decision, made temporarily in 2020, is “now permanent”, a source said.

A spokeswoman for Westminster Abbey said: “Due to the financial challenges posed by the Covid-19 pandemic, Westminster Abbey will ring its bells only for the birthdays of HM The Queen and HRH The Prince of Wales.”

The Telegraph article also includes a statement from the government spokeswoman on the changes to the flag flying protocol.

In 2020, after emails insisting that local authorities fly the flag for the Duke’s birthday were leaked, DCMS clarified that it was “no longer a requirement” for them to do so.

But the date, February 19, remained on the list of official “designated days” on its website until the end of 2021. On February 11, it discreetly removed the birthday for the 2022 calendar.

A government spokeswoman said: “Since 2021 the default position in Great Britain is that the Union Flag flies all year round unless another flag is being flown.

“However we routinely review the list of designated days for flying the Union Flag on UK Government Buildings.

“These changes make the days consistent with other commemorative events, such as gun salutes.”

I am not familiar with gun salute protocol in the UK. Am I to understand that gun salutes marking royal birthdays have always been restricted to the birthdays of the Queen and the Prince of Wales?

[Durham]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

I am not familiar with gun salute protocol in the UK. Am I to understand that gun salutes marking royal birthdays have always been restricted to the birthdays of the Queen and the Prince of Wales?

Yes they have. Always just for the monarch (+ spouse) & their heir. Nobody else.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Somebody

I assume they didn't want to single out the Duke of York and therefore also had to remove his siblings (and sister-in-law).

Originally Posted by King of the Jungle

It's sad that The Duke of York's poor judgement in behaviour and association brought ramifications to other family members. ie changes to flag flying protocol.

The changes to flag flying and bell ringing protocols seem to reflect Queen Elizabeth's decision for ceremonial military uniforms not to be worn by the royal mourners at the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral in order not to single out the Duke of York and the Duke of Sussex.

I wonder if it will be necessary to change any other protocols for the same purpose. In particular, I expect the royal family's social media accounts will no longer acknowledge the Duke of York's birthdays from hereon. (Even in February 2021, months before the civil suit was filed, the accounts posted an #On This Day rather than the usual "Wishing a happy birthday" to mark Prince Andrew's birthday). Will they continue to post birthday wishes for other members of the royal family?

Originally Posted by Somebody

She was a widow on her wedding anniversary in 2021 as well... (that's why I pointed out that it still was included last year) The 2021 list was last adapted in June (so a few months after the Duke of Edinburgh's death - although his birthday was kept as a flag day as well as their wedding anniversary).

Given that the birthdays of other deceased royals have been removed, I wonder if the deceased Duke of Edinburgh's birthday and wedding day were left on the list of designated flag days for 2021 as a farewell gesture in the year of his death or if it was simply overlooked.

Originally Posted by Durham

Yes they have. Always just for the monarch (+ spouse) & their heir. Nobody else.

Interesting. If the Duke of Edinburgh's birthday was included, then that answers my question about whether the Duchess of Cornwall's birthday is likely to be restored as a designated flag flying (and bell ringing) day in the next reign.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

I wonder if it will be necessary to change any other protocols for the same purpose. In particular, I expect the royal family's social media accounts will no longer acknowledge the Duke of York's birthdays from hereon. (Even in February 2021, months before the civil suit was filed, the accounts posted an #On This Day rather than the usual "Wishing a happy birthday" to mark Prince Andrew's birthday). Will they continue to post birthday wishes for other members of the royal family?

The royal social media accounts indeed did not acknowledge the Duke of York's 62nd birthday.

Ed Southgate of The Sun wrote:

Buckingham Palace confirmed there has been no public message as the Duke marks his birthday today.

It is understood public birthday wishes are not made for non-working members of the Royal Family.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/177041...birthday-snub/

It certainly was not the case until now that "public birthday wishes are not made for non-working members of the Royal Family". Even Archie Mountbatten-Windsor's birthdays were marked by the royal family's social media accounts each year.

When is the next birthday of a non-working member of the Royal Family which was marked with a public message in past years? Was a public message posted on the Duchess of Kent's birthday (February 22) in 2021?

[LauraS3514]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

It certainly was not the case until now that "public birthday wishes are not made for non-working members of the Royal Family". Even Archie Mountbatten-Windsor's birthdays were marked by the royal family's social media accounts each year.

When is the next birthday of a non-working member of the Royal Family which was marked with a public message in past years? Was a public message posted on the Duchess of Kent's birthday (February 22) in 2021?

Excluding Mrs. Kent (how she introduced herself to her music students) the next birthday of a non-working member is Princess Eugenie on March 23.

[MonacoRoyalFan]

Didn’t know where else to put this question forth but curious:

What do William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugene, Zara, etc call their royal aunt and uncles?

Do they call the Princess Royal Aunt Anne or just Anne? What do they call the Prince of Wales, simply Uncle Charles? Uncle Andrew?

[Prinsara]

William and Harry were on video in The Queen at 90 referring to her as just "Anne" (and laughing at the possibility of her wiping out as a small child on film, basically). I somehow doubt they addressed her like that as children but that's the extent of my knowledge.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

The royal social media accounts indeed did not acknowledge the Duke of York's 62nd birthday.

Ed Southgate of The Sun wrote:

Buckingham Palace confirmed there has been no public message as the Duke marks his birthday today.

It is understood public birthday wishes are not made for non-working members of the Royal Family.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/177041...birthday-snub/

It certainly was not the case until now that "public birthday wishes are not made for non-working members of the Royal Family". Even Archie Mountbatten-Windsor's birthdays were marked by the royal family's social media accounts each year.

When is the next birthday of a non-working member of the Royal Family which was marked with a public message in past years? Was a public message posted on the Duchess of Kent's birthday (February 22) in 2021?

Originally Posted by LauraS3514

Excluding Mrs. Kent (how she introduced herself to her music students) the next birthday of a non-working member is Princess Eugenie on March 23.

Thank you. A birthday message was indeed posted to mark Princess Eugenie's birthday in 2021, but no message was posted on her birthday this year on March 23, 2022. However, a public message was posted to mark Archie Mountbatten-Windsor's third birthday on May 6, 2022, seemingly in contradiction of the new rule. (Readers of the thread should please be mindful of the forum rule against Sussex discussion outside of the Sussex forum. My intention is to note the apparent termination or inconsistent application of the new general protocol which was announced in February.)

Perhaps readers who follow the British royal social media accounts can report on how other non-working royal birthdays have been handled before and after the February 2022 announcement.

[MonacoRoyalFan]

Only non-working royals who get
Birthday shoutouts are Princess Beatrice, Princess Eugenie, Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Archie, Lili and the Cambridge children.

Beatrice and Eugenie, they do so sporadically and not at all a regular thing. But as they are two of the few princesses of the blood and have titles, this makes some sense. But it is not a regular thing.

With the Cambridge children, it makes sense as they are very much future of the monarchy and children of a future king.

With the Sussexes and Archie and Lili, it’s very clearly a PR thing. If they didn’t wish them public happy birthdays, it would go noticed and cause ugly headlines.

[Janglos199]

Originally Posted by MonacoRoyalFan

Only non-working royals who get
Birthday shoutouts are Princess Beatrice, Princess Eugenie, Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Archie, Lili and the Cambridge children.

Beatrice and Eugenie, they do so sporadically and not at all a regular thing. But as they are two of the few princesses of the blood and have titles, actuary job makes some sense. But it is not a regular thing.

With the Cambridge children, it makes sense as they are very much future of the monarchy and children of a future king.

With the Sussexes and Archie and Lili, it’s very clearly a PR thing. If they didn’t wish them public happy birthdays, it would go noticed and cause ugly headlines.

Why do they have to be non-working?