The Monarchy under Charles

[Rudolph]

All grants in aid have been replaced by the Sovereign Grant. Everything comes out of the SG. Palace upkeep, official travel, etc.

Charles will also have the income from the Duchy of Lancaster. The Queen currently uses this to fund the activities of her children and cousins. The Duchy of Lancaster provides an income to the Sovereign.

I think the streamlining has as much to do with optics as economics.

It makes sense to have Charles family as the 'core' royals and the others used as needed.

 

[Osipi]

It's fine that the funding is not tied to the number of working royals but when the streamlining discussion happens, even the use of the term streamlining, it implies that the motive is to contain and/or cut back on costs. I think that it's going to get very interesting when some enterprising reporter writes the story that about royal family has streamlining but also notes that the funding formula has stayed the same.

I'm not 100% sure but my understanding is that the funding relating to the palaces comes from more than one stream, there the Crown Estates allotment but there is also a standalone grant earmarked for the royal residences, the royal residences generate their own income through tours and finally the monarch can make special requests for funding. I will concede that if the Queen and Charles plan to foot the bill to bring the palaces up to scratch from the Sovereign Grant and Duchy of Lancaster (I've seen figures ranging from £50 million to £150 million) then I can see where some hard choices have to be made. I guess we will see if that will be the case.

I think that the security costs for minor working royals are incremental and tied to royal work. In the case of one or both York princesses, she/they will get security for royal engagements but not for shopping trips, an evening at Annabel's or vacationing on the Abramovich yacht.

I'm going to address both bolded areas as I think some clarification is needed. First, the repairs to the palaces. What needs to be stressed is that no matter who funds the repairs or where the funds for the repairs to palaces come from, the work is not being done exclusively for the Queen, Charles or anyone else in particular. The royal family do not own these properties and in reality, other than the Queen owning outright the private estates of Sandringham and Balmoral, no other royal actually holds the deed and owns property for the most part. Anne does own Gatcombe Park but that was a gift from HM to Anne and Mark Phillips when they married.

All repairs and being brought up to snuff of royal landmarks, palaces etc are done to preserve historic buildings that are part of UK heritage.

Second bolded statement. The York girls' security, at all times, is paid for by their father, Andrew. I would imagine if they were accompanying Andrew on an official engagement, then their security would be provided for but we know that rarely happens.

 

[Queen Claude]

Good points. I was addressing a reply to a comment I made about the formula that funds the current set up and will it be adapted for a streamlined set up. The reply to me was that funding formula is not correlated to the number of working royals, therefore there will be the same funding for fewer working royal, but because there will be fewer working royals, the funding that the monarch gets from the Sovereign Grant and the Duchy of Lancaster can be used to speed up the repairs and maintenance of royal palaces, which I assume means the official palaces, not the private residences.

There was also a comment made about savings being gleaned from security, and my reply was that I think security costs for minor working royals are incremental. As you are pointing out Andrew covers the costs for his daughters' security, and if one or both became working royals I doubt if that means that Andrew will be relieved of whatever security costs he is footing for them for their private activities.

 

[Skippyboo]

The Duchy of Lancaster income is private income of the monarch. The monarch doesn't own the palaces. The Queen isn't going to pay for BP's roof with her own money just like President Obama would not pay for repairs to the White House with his salary.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Ish]

Acutually he has some HRH cousins from his fathers side.

None of Charles' first cousins are HRHs in Britain (which was the point being made). The cousins that are HRHs, on his father's side, are all German royals and thus don't have their titles recognized by their own state - and haven't for almost a hundred years now.

 

[MARG]

Pages and pages of bile about a delusional Andrew, a hostile Charles and two sisters that don't make waves.

All on the strength of the Daily Mail's Stephanie Linning who, since much of the text is identical, got her information from the same unnamed "source" as the Sunday Express's Camilla Tominey, our nearest and dearest friend's at the DM and Express.

Who cares if there is no point of reference, not even insiders who have seen the Queens two eldest sons come to fisticuffs or whatever. Maybe even a smuggled out copy of a letter or memo or two just to prove the allegations bona fides.

No, if I had any doubt that these are more ventures into creative writing and rags plagiarising each other, the following quote settles it for me.

“He (Prince Andrew) believes his daughters are already being overshadowed by William, Kate and Harry and the situation will get worse as Prince George and Princess Charlotte get older.

Correct me if I am wrong, but have not several posts addressed the (supposed) issue of Prince Andrew knowing his place? Multiple posts in fact. You cannot tell me he thinks Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie should overshadow the direct heirs, why would he because like it or not, he is the heir's brother and they are the heir's children and grandchildren.

Ah well, Charles isn't even the monarch yet but we sure are getting mileage out of his reign!

 

[sndral]

Ah, but this does have the odd effect of good press for Charles as it makes him look like the reasonable brother trying to economize by standing up to airmiles Andy's dastardly scheme to foist his spendthrift/wastrel daughters' upkeep onto the taxpayers.*
It's a variation on the younger brother plotting to usurp their elder brother's throne theme which resonates w/ people because history is littered with examples.

* I'm not saying this is what I believe re: the Yorks - just this is how the tabs are painting it.

 

[tommy100]

Prince Charles insists Beatrice and Eugenie don’t deserve full-time royal status | Daily Mail Online

And it goes on...Charles is definitely getting the better press out of this. Equally all of this just makes is less and less likely that the girls will ever be full time working royals, if Charles were to let them it would simply look like he was caving in to the press and media fuss. The argument that Bea feels if she was a working royal she wouldn't have gone on so many holidays is ridiculous!!

For all the sisters’ seemingly endless holidays around the world — which have attracted much criticism and even mockery — Prince Andrew believes that the older they get, the more they feel a need to contribute to the Royal Family’s public duties.
Currently, all we see semi-officially of Beatrice, 28, and Eugenie, 26, are rare outings accompanying their father, or when they join the family at royal events such as Buckingham Palace garden parties and receptions.
Prince Andrew believes that the older Beatrice and Eugenie get, the more they feel a need to contribute to the Royal Family’s public duties.
So could the girls, even now, be asked to join the exclusive roster of senior royals carrying out official engagements?
The truth is, it seems unlikely. For whatever Prince Andrew may have said to his mother, Charles remains intransigent.
The latter’s view, according to courtiers, is that while the Princesses ‘should, of course, be treated properly, as befits their royal status, they cannot have a public role and cannot be taxpayer-funded’.
‘He is quite clear on that,’ one courtier stresses.
The issue highlights a stark difference in attitudes among the Royal Family.
Of course, for years Andrew’s sister, Princess Anne, has made sure her own untitled children, Zara and Peter, avoid the royal round and pursue jobs and interests in the real world.

 

[Lee-Z]

Honestly, i sometimes think DM reads forums like ours and uses the juicy posts to come up with an article

 

[duke of poliganc]

i hate that the monarchy in uk become more of a popularity contest and reality show and actually the establishment is starting to behave like a reality show producer who do any thing the public want to increase the show's viewers .
when u see the comments on the dm article u will see it's more aboat popularity more than the idea of slimming the working royals if you say instead of andrew that prince harry who is gonna be in prince andrew same shoes and his children will be treated the same way prince andrew and his daughters is being treated you gonna see a different response .

 

[Mirabel]

when u see the comments on the dm article u will see it's more aboat popularity more than the idea of slimming the working royals if you say instead of andrew that prince harry who is gonna be in prince andrew same shoes and his children will be treated the same way prince andrew and his daughters is being treated you gonna see a different response .

Well, yes, because Harry is beloved and Andrew is barely tolerated. And Fergie isn't even tolerated.

I've always thought the York girls are at a huge disadvantage, thanks to the antics of their parents. (Which will probably also impede their chances of marrying well).

 

[duke of poliganc]

Well, yes, because Harry is beloved and Andrew is barely tolerated. And Fergie isn't even tolerated.

I've always thought the York girls are at a huge disadvantage, thanks to the antics of their parents. (Which will probably also impede their chances of marrying well).

if they gonna keep walking in that pass then it wont be that long before we see the british republic .
why pother with not that much popular head of state when u can choose a much popular one every 4 years or so .

 

[RoyalHighness 2002]

The Queen sides with princesses in royal battle of the brothers | Daily Mail Online

Is it just me, or does it seem like the DM is contradicting itself. But I have always thought the queen has had sympathy for Beatrice and Eugenie since she was a York Princess as well.

 

[Osipi]

I've always looked at stories that use the words "source close to the Queen's court" and such as a roundabout way of saying "we're making this up as we go".

Of course HM loves and has a special relationship with her two granddaughters Beatrice and Eugenie. When it comes to being "Granny", she loves each and every one of her grandchildren. This is totally different though from the workings of the "Firm" which is the monarchy's business.

What struck me though is that what could possibly happen if Charles was to cave in and give Beatrice and Eugenie public roles in the "Firm", its very possible too that it would be a free for all with publications like the Daily Fail that'll have fresh ground to incite the public's furor with Sarah sponging off daughters that are on the taxpayer's dime and who knows what else.

Charles is a very astute and intelligent man and I get the feeling that he will run his monarchy with sort of an iron fist as he'll make it his business to know each and every little detail of what is going on. Both Sarah and Andrew have not had glowing track records and no matter what Beatrice and Eugenie are like and how responsible they are or how hard working they could be for the "Firm", they'll still be very much associated with their parents and their lifestyles and influence.

I do think if Charles is gunning for a slimmed down monarchy, he's headed in the right direction and avoiding possible pitfalls. Neither Anne nor Edward seem to have a problem with their children being "passed over" as royals. Its only Andrew and who knows if its Sarah nudging him?

 

[Mirabel]

The Queen is very old, and even though she seems in good health for her age, she must be weary sometimes and eager to avoid family conflicts.
I think Andrew is very selfish to involve her in what is essentially an impasse with Charles.
He should be well-aware that such decisions are now largely left to his brother; why drag his mother into it?

If Charles were to give in, he must know it would cost the RF a huge loss in popularity. Andrew won't care, but Charles will need to preserve the public good will to keep his crown.

 

[royal rob]

I've always looked at stories that use the words "source close to the Queen's court" and such as a roundabout way of saying "we're making this up as we go".



Of course HM loves and has a special relationship with her two granddaughters Beatrice and Eugenie. When it comes to being "Granny", she loves each and every one of her grandchildren. This is totally different though from the workings of the "Firm" which is the monarchy's business.



What struck me though is that what could possibly happen if Charles was to cave in and give Beatrice and Eugenie public roles in the "Firm", its very possible too that it would be a free for all with publications like the Daily Fail that'll have fresh ground to incite the public's furor with Sarah sponging off daughters that are on the taxpayer's dime and who knows what else.



Charles is a very astute and intelligent man and I get the feeling that he will run his monarchy with sort of an iron fist as he'll make it his business to know each and every little detail of what is going on. Both Sarah and Andrew have not had glowing track records and no matter what Beatrice and Eugenie are like and how responsible they are or how hard working they could be for the "Firm", they'll still be very much associated with their parents and their lifestyles and influence.



I do think if Charles is gunning for a slimmed down monarchy, he's headed in the right direction and avoiding possible pitfalls. Neither Anne nor Edward seem to have a problem with their children being "passed over" as royals. Its only Andrew and who knows if its Sarah nudging him?

I would guess that Sarah is well and truly nudging him. I'm sure he finished up on the floor from nudging


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Dman]

It's a tough situation, because both Princesses know how to conduct official engagements on their own very well. They have patronages to support and have a nice public platform.

It's totally different from Anne's kids, because they're not titled and have long established an independent life outside of the Palace walls. Also, the press isn't really that into them.

 

[royal rob]

It's a tough situation, because both Princesses know how to conduct official engagements on their own very well. They have patronages to support and have a nice public platform.

It's totally different from Anne's kids, because they're not titled and have long established an independent life outside of the Palace walls. Also, the press isn't really that into them.

Pity Andrew and Sarah didn't go the same way as Anne they might have had a happier life a step back from the firm.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Dman]

Pity Andrew and Sarah didn't go the same way as Anne they might have had a happier life a step back from the firm.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

I think the York girls are pretty happy with their lives. If all this is true, it may that Andrew think his daughters would be of great help to the monarchy.

It could be a made up story too. The media has always made it seem like Charles and Andrew are going at it constantly. Now, its time to bring his grown daughters in the fight.

No good story than a royal sibling rivalry.

 

[MARG]

Charles is going to lose face if he gives in to his mother who was influenced by a letter sent by Beatrice to her cousin William who promptly sent it where? If he sent it to his grandmother then she is leaning on his father and, if she sent it to his father HM would be dragged in when Andrew found out William gave Beatrice her marching orders (and Eugenie by default).

Those "sources" sure have a lot to answer for as this dialogue gets nastier and nastier as the DM keeps the pressure on with article after article depicting Charles as an evil, brother-hating Machiavelli and HM as a spineless old dear who loves her granddaughters. Boo Hiss and Boo Hoo, as appropriate. But since no actual evidence of any part of this furore has reached the "news", we can't believe everything we read, and that's okay too.

But there are pages and pages of comments about this "situation", real or imagined, and all I can smell is burning rubber from the spinning wheels.

 

[Curryong]

The York princesses just aren't very liked in Britain, though. It isn't just the media, though the tabs don't help, with their constant sniping about 'perpetual holidaying' etc. It's the 'sins of the fathers' and the mother in this case, syndrome, transferred to the daughters.

I just don't feel that Charles could afford to upset public sentiment on this issue, especially as he seems to want to clear the decks for the new reign and have a slimmed down monarchy as his preference.

If this story has any legs at all and isn't just the DM taking a swipe at easy targets, I really don't see why Eugenie is being twinned with her sister in this debate over future royal duties. Beatrice may well be a bit lost at the moment with no permanent job or boyfriend, while Eugenie's romance with Jack seems to be going great guns and she appears to be happily content working in the art world.

AFAIK Eugenie has never shown any interest in becoming a part time Royal and while she was living and working in the US I read that she hated people making reference to her title in any way. That doesn't strike me as the image of a person who is just hanging out to be a Royal back-up to her uncle and cousins in a few years.

 

[Lady Nimue]

Pity Andrew and Sarah didn't go the same way as Anne they might have had a happier life a step back from the firm.

I agree. A life lived in the shadows is a boon. IMO.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I can't wait for Charles to become King and do some necessary changes, eg to reduce the BRF to the core family and ask the not relevant family members to fade into insignificance.

 

[Osipi]

I don't think he's going to ask anyone to fade into insignificance but allow time to do its work as the family members grow older and eventually slow down due to age. He has too much respect I think to oust anyone out of the "Firm" but will not be replacing them as time goes by.

It will be gradual but there definitely is an air that there will be changes once Charles does become king. As times change and things are looked at differently and done differently, I think we'll see that gradually happen in how the BRF conducts their working days.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I don't think he's going to ask anyone to fade into insignificance but allow time to do its work as the family members grow older and eventually slow down due to age. He has too much respect I think to oust anyone out of the "Firm" but will not be replacing them as time goes by.

It will be gradual but there definitely is an air that there will be changes once Charles does become king. As times change and things are looked at differently and done differently, I think we'll see that gradually happen in how the BRF conducts their working days.

with regard to the recent discussion, I don't expect Andrew and his daugthers to play any role or to see them on any balcony and it's about time that their roles will be defined once and for all.

 

[Mbruno]

I can't wait for Charles to become King and do some necessary changes, eg to reduce the BRF to the core family and ask the not relevant family members to fade into insignificance.

As pointed out by many observers, that would be completely irrational. The BRF cannot keep their current level of engagements with five people only, especially with Charles and Camilla already being an old couple. And, of course, if the family scales back their engagements, chances are their popularity will also fall.

The argument that the York princesses are not popular is really unfair as they were never given a public role that would allow them to establish a greater connection with the people. I am pretty sure that, if they had more public engagements and stepped up their charity patronages, their popularity would rise.

 

[Rudolph]

The fact that Beatrice and Eugenie get almost no mention in the Court Circular tells me their fate is sealed.

They will play a part when needed but they will not have an 'official role' under Charles.

 

[Dman]

As pointed out by many observers, that would be completely irrational. The BRF cannot keep their current level of engagements with five people only, especially with Charles and Camilla already being an old couple. And, of course, if the family scales back their engagements, chances are their popularity will also fall.

The argument that the York princesses are not popular is really unfair as they were never given a public role that would allow them to establish a greater connection with the people. I am pretty sure that, if they had more public engagements and stepped up their charity patronages, their popularity would rise.

There must be changes made within the firm. I believe those changes are coming about and will be made more effective when Charles become king.

Also, the young royals of today are redefining the substance on official engagements. The focus is now on the quality of their work, rather than the number of engagements that's being carried out.

Back in the old days, the late king (Queen's father) and very a young queen (current monarch) needed the help of their family to do official duties. After the Second World War, the monarchy tried to stretch the institution across the U.K. The Queen's children were too young during her early reign to carry out official duties. It's all different now.

The King and his immediate family should be the primary focus of the monarchy. I'm sure the other minor royals will continue to support their charities and organizations in the future.

 

[Queen Claude]

As pointed out by many observers, that would be completely irrational. The BRF cannot keep their current level of engagements with five people only, especially with Charles and Camilla already being an old couple. And, of course, if the family scales back their engagements, chances are their popularity will also fall.

The argument that the York princesses are not popular is really unfair as they were never given a public role that would allow them to establish a greater connection with the people. I am pretty sure that, if they had more public engagements and stepped up their charity patronages, their popularity would rise.

Agree. I don't think that the argument that the York princesses are unpopular is "unfair" per se, but I've been around long enough to know that the popularity and unpopularity can be ephemeral, especially if it is based in misinformation or superficiality. I remember when Charles and Camilla were loathed, loathed(!!!) and also when Harry was royal screw up.

I think that Andrew comes off as ridiculous in the article(s) that sparked the current conversation, and even though the tabloid-esque headline of this article exploits the soap opera aspect of this matter, what got my attention is that a "senior member of the Queen’s court" states that ‘Charles’s vision for a streamlined family is all very well, but how can the Royal Family do everything it currently does with just five players?’ The courtier goes on to state that the Queen believes that "sidelining Beatrice and Eugenie could prove impractical" and "[for] the sake of the Monarchy, they should be allowed to carry out more royal duties."

 

[tommy100]

As pointed out by many observers, that would be completely irrational. The BRF cannot keep their current level of engagements with five people only, especially with Charles and Camilla already being an old couple. And, of course, if the family scales back their engagements, chances are their popularity will also fall.

The argument that the York princesses are not popular is really unfair as they were never given a public role that would allow them to establish a greater connection with the people. I am pretty sure that, if they had more public engagements and stepped up their charity patronages, their popularity would rise.

Your first point works on the assumption that Charles want a RF doing 2,000+ duties a year and visiting all kinds of charities and projects. As much as I am not his greatest fan he is a smart man and surely would see that slimming down the RF will mean a RF doing less.