The Monarchy under Charles

[WreathOfLaurels]

Could you be a little more specific about what constitutes the behavior of an Edwardian grandee?

Ok to be fair that image of Charles is a bit overblown and he's not that different from the rest of the family and the extended European Royal family.

But it is the stories about the boiled eggs and having a valet squeeze toothpaste out for him are damaging as it fits in with previous actions such as rejecting a number of grace and favour properties and instead buying one of his own, the lavish entertaining and the perception of ingratitude, combined with the now infamous self pity, can it times make Charles seem like he accidentally stumbled into a time machine on the way to Edward VII's coronation

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

What I'm trying to say is that, one of the major problems Charles will have as King is remaining relevant. Although he means well and it is painfully obvious that he wants to be relevant and needed, with a number of this past actions and lifestyle habits he might well instead become the opposite, and I don't want that to happen, and the political fallout of brexit makes this more likely for reasons that are no fault of his.

 

[Curryong]

Charles has a personal staff of 124, including three valets. No doubt many of them are estate workers/gardeners keeping the gardens of Highgrove pristine, however I doubt very much that aristocrats, even Dukes, have lived in that sort of style, in and out of Europe, since the Second and probably the First, World War. I'm not talking about monarchs, as they are a different kettle of fish.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Also don't forget the income from the duchy of Cornwall, being to live that well of a family appendage is not a good loo as other heirs simply get how much their governments give them - I wonder if Charles would have been less inclined to behave as badly as he did at times if there was a financial threat hanging over him like his siblings and cousins. he really does not need that much money even if does know how to spend it with taste and aplomb

 

[Roslyn]

What I'm trying to say is that, one of the major problems Charles will have as King is remaining relevant. Although he means well and it is painfully obvious that he wants to be relevant and needed, with a number of this past actions and lifestyle habits he might well instead become the opposite, and I don't want that to happen, and the political fallout of brexit makes this more likely for reasons that are no fault of his.

In my view, Charles, as king, will be as relevant and needed as his mother is now: no more, no less. The monarch has a full schedule of duties mapped out for him and all he will have to do is follow the bouncing ball.

I see his main challenge will be keeping his mouth shut, and I think it would be a good idea to have one of his minders accompany him to every function where he is likely to have the chance to chat to attendees, and charged with the duty of stepping in and distract the King politely when it seems he is about to speak his mind.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

In my view, Charles, as king, will be as relevant and needed as his mother is now: no more, no less. The monarch has a full schedule of duties mapped out for him and all he will have to do is follow the bouncing ball.

I see his main challenge will be keeping his mouth shut, and I think it would be a good idea to have one of his minders accompany him to every function where he is likely to have the chance to chat to attendees, and charged with the duty of stepping in and distract the King politely when it seems he is about to speak his mind.

Well the problem from my point of view is that, although I'm not expecting Charles to turn into Juan Carlos circa 1981, I do hope for a little self awareness as since Brussels can't be blamed for problems in the political system, it would be all too easy for public anger to be directed to the monarchy.

I know that sounds unlikely but these things can't be ruled out, especially if the politicians were looking for something to distract attention away from their failings. Remember that brexit seemed unlikely at one point as well.

 

[Queen Camilla]

]Charles has a personal staff of 124[/B], including three valets. No doubt many of them are estate workers/gardeners keeping the gardens of Highgrove pristine, however I doubt very much that aristocrats, even Dukes, have lived in that sort of style, in and out of Europe, since the Second and probably the First, World War. I'm not talking about monarchs, as they are a different kettle of fish.

Someone is twisting the facts.

Charles does not have a personal staff of 124.

There are only 18 personal staff that work for the entire Wales family which includes Charles, Camilla, William, Catherine and Harry.

The 124 people work for the various charities or for the offices of the entire Wales family or as part of official duties.

From the Annual Review released a few days ago.

The Prince of Wales employs directly 143 full-time equivalent staff. Of these, 124.7 support Their Royal Highnesses in undertaking official duties and charitable activities, and 18.3 are personal, garden and farm staff.

Non-official expenditure covers the salary costs of 7.6 full-time equivalent personal staff, including personal secretaries, chefs and valets. In addition, there are 10.7 full-time equivalent estate, farm, garden and stable staff.

There are chauffeurs, valets, butlers, gardens and estate workers that are part of the 124 but these are not personal staff.

These are probably the people that work during banquets or receptions at Clarence House or Kensington Palace.

 

[VictoriaB]

Charles has a personal staff of 124, including three valets. No doubt many of them are estate workers/gardeners keeping the gardens of Highgrove pristine, however I doubt very much that aristocrats, even Dukes, have lived in that sort of style, in and out of Europe, since the Second and probably the First, World War. I'm not talking about monarchs, as they are a different kettle of fish.

Actually, according to the latest review, he has 2.5 FTE valets/dressers so, presumably one dresser for Camilla and one valet plus one part time to fill in. He has 58.8 FTE personal staff (which includes gardeners and housekeepers) and 65.9 FTE official staff. By far the largest number of personal staff are gardeners and estate workers (20.4 FTE).

Again, according to the review, the Prince and Duchess entertained 4,200 guests last year which would account for 4.8 FTE chefs and kitchen porters. 9.9 FTE housekeepers/house managers cover two official homes which still need managing even when Charles and Camilla are away.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Someone is twisting the facts.

Charles does not have a personal staff of 124.

There are only 18 personal staff that work for the entire Wales family which includes Charles, Camilla, William, Catherine and Harry.

The 124 people work for the various charities or for the offices of the entire Wales family.

From the Annual Review released a few days ago.

And the above makes my point - the reality isn't really that important, it's the perception that counts. And the perception of Charles as a neo-Edwardian grandee is a strong one with the public at large.

 

[Curryong]

Well Harry has no personal staff, as we've seen from the state of his blue suits! We are always being told that the Cambridges have few on their personal staff, perhaps four or five, so the majority of the personal staff are employed by Charles and Camilla. I stated that the majority of the 124 would have been estate workers. The Queen has reportedly complained about Charles's tendency to personal extravagance and she isn't one to complain for nothing.

How the DM showed the numbers from official figures.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-6m--man-runs-bath-woman-talks-plants.html

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

As I wrote in another thread earlier this year: The Royal Household employs approximately 1200 staff, but that is not the Queen's personal staff. We don't know how big her personal staff is, but its (and rightly so) much bigger than Charles's personal staff.


Charles's Household employs 120 to 130 staff, but that is not his personal staff. And there was a story in the Danish press some years ago that Frederik and Mary lived a much more extravagant life and had more personal staff than Charles and Camilla.

cepe wrote this in another thread earlier this year:

.. He doesn't have more staff than his mother. BP has over 500 staff. That gets lost in the Household figures for BP. This is a media spin story which places emphasis on love the Queen/don't like Charles. UK press are only capable of compare nd contrast journalism.

What he has are teams of people running his charities and managing the charitable funds. And he puts practical help, in terms of cash and expertise in to helping communities.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Actually, according to the latest review, he has 2.5 FTE valets/dressers so, presumably one dresser for Camilla and one valet plus one part time to fill in. He has 58.8 FTE personal staff (which includes gardeners and housekeepers) and 65.9 FTE official staff. By far the largest number of personal staff are gardeners and estate workers (20.4 FTE).

Again, according to the review, the Prince and Duchess entertained 4,200 guests last year which would account for 4.8 FTE chefs and kitchen porters. 9.9 FTE housekeepers/house managers cover two official homes which still need managing even when Charles and Camilla are away.

These are not his personal staff.

The review only break down the numbers for the entire Wales family official staff.

There are a lot of part time staff.

The valets are probably the one that take care of the uniforms etc that are worn on official engagements.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Update - I didn't saw the last posts and I has not had the time to write the latest review yet, but thanks to Queen Camilla and VictoriaB for their posts about this.

The Queen has reportedly complained about Charles's tendency to personal extravagance and she isn't one to complain for nothing.

How the DM showed the numbers from official figures.

Team Charles and Camilla (all 124 of them, costing £6m... from the man who runs his bath to the woman who talks to plants) | Daily Mail Online

This is as cepe said a media spin story which places emphasis on love the Queen/don't like Charles. And as a former press secretary said in 2012/2013 (I think), HM isn't the type of woman to complain about Charles staff.

 

[VictoriaB]

These are not his personal staff.

The review only break down the numbers for the entire Wales family official staff.

There are a lot of part time staff.

The valets are probably the one that take care of the uniforms etc that are worn on official engagements.

There are 124 Full Time Equivalent staff (FTE). That takes into account the fact that some of them will be part-time.

When describing the work of the household, the report only refers to Charles and Camilla. Apart from one brief mention of the Cambridges and Harry, the description of staff functions is how they assist Charles and Camilla to do their jobs.

 

[VictoriaB]

Well Harry has no personal staff, as we've seen from the state of his blue suits! We are always being told that the Cambridges have few on their personal staff, perhaps four or five, so the majority of the personal staff are employed by Charles and Camilla. I stated that the majority of the 124 would have been estate workers. The Queen has reportedly complained about Charles's tendency to personal extravagance and she isn't one to complain for nothing.

How the DM showed the numbers from official figures.

Team Charles and Camilla (all 124 of them, costing £6m... from the man who runs his bath to the woman who talks to plants) | Daily Mail Online

Frankly, I would not believe a word the Daily Mail prints. If anything has become clear over the last couple of days if it was not before, it is that the media skews facts and figures to suit their agenda.

It's not hard to find the report and not hard to find the figures in the report.

 

[Curryong]

Well, if 20.4 out of 58.8 personal staff are gardeners/ estate workers, (again, I stated in previous posts that the majority of Charles's personal staff would be outdoor workers like gardeners/estate workers,) then that still leaves 38.4 personal staff, a larger number than most Dukes and other aristocrats would employ nowadays or indeed since the war.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Thanks for the info guys, it's really interesting, but can we please go back to the future of the monarchy post brexit?

 

[Curryong]

Yes, I wanted to say, but forgot, Laurels, (if I can call you that) that I don't think that relationships with overseas royal families will be upset or disrupted at all. I think royal families keep relationships/friendships with other royals separate from the national politics of their respective countries.

The only real exception to this are the Spanish royals. The debate and tensions over Gibraltar prevented the King and Queen from visiting London with all the other crowned heads at the time of the Diamond Jubilee and for Charles and Diana's wedding, and no doubt it will interfere again.

Those families the BRF are not particularly close to, the Belgians, Monaco etc, will remain not very close, IMO, those where there is a real relationship and a friendship like the Norwegians and Danes will remain, IMO. I think Princess Beatrix and the Queen will still phone each other! It's very different, IMO to a major war, in which millions died, including some Princes on both sides (in World War One.) No-one's going 'over the top' to probable death in this event!

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Well, if 20.4 out of 58.8 personal staff are gardeners/ estate workers, (again, I stated in previous posts that the majority of Charles's personal staff would be outdoor workers like gardeners/estate workers,) then that still leaves 38.4 personal staff, a larger number than most Dukes and other aristocrats would employ nowadays or indeed since the war.

But Charles isn't like most dukes or aristocrats, he is the heir to the British and 15 others thrones.

And both William, Kate and Harry was criticised some weeks ago for having too few staff and for being to ordinary, while others criticize them for expensive trips with helicopters etc. Whatever they do, both Charles, Camilla, William, Kate and Harry are going to be criticized by British media.

Thanks for the info guys, it's really interesting, but can we please go back to the future of the monarchy post brexit?

I think this should be discussed in the Brexit thread, but as you mentioned in one of your posts here, that thread is closed for the moment.

You can discuss the monarchy under Charles, but I don't think there are much more to say about that either.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Yes, I wanted to say, but forgot, Laurels, (if I can call you that) that I don't think that relationships with overseas royal families will be upset or disrupted at all. I think royal families keep relationships/friendships with other royals separate from the national politics of their respective countries.

The only real exception to this are the Spanish royals. The debate and tensions over Gibraltar prevented the King and Queen from visiting London with all the other crowned heads at the time of the Diamond Jubilee and for Charles and Diana's wedding, and no doubt it will interfere again.

Those families the BRF are not particularly close to, the Belgians, Monaco etc, will remain not very close, IMO, those where there is a real relationship and a friendship like the Norwegians and Danes will remain, IMO. I think Princess Beatrix and the Queen will still phone each other! It's very different, IMO to a major war, in which millions died, including some Princes on both sides (in World War One.) No-one's going 'over the top' to probable death in this event!

I wasn't referring to the feelings between the families but the perception of such links esp if the EU comes crashing down and blighty gets the blame from the general public. But point taken

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Yes, I wanted to say, but forgot, Laurels, (if I can call you that) that I don't think that relationships with overseas royal families will be upset or disrupted at all. I think royal families keep relationships/friendships with other royals separate from the national politics of their respective countries.

The only real exception to this are the Spanish royals. The debate and tensions over Gibraltar prevented the King and Queen from visiting London with all the other crowned heads at the time of the Diamond Jubilee and for Charles and Diana's wedding, and no doubt it will interfere again.

Those families the BRF are not particularly close to, the Belgians, Monaco etc, will remain not very close, IMO, those where there is a real relationship and a friendship like the Norwegians and Danes will remain, IMO. I think Princess Beatrix and the Queen will still phone each other! It's very different, IMO to a major war, in which millions died, including some Princes on both sides (in World War One.) No-one's going 'over the top' to probable death in this event!

I decided to bring this up in the monarchy under Charles thread as brexit's aftermath will be a major feature of Charles time as King, and therefore his and the institution of the monarchy's reaction was important.

The discussion has probably gone as far as it can go for now as it's still early days and anything could happen, but I hope your predictions are the correct ones in the long run

 

[MARG]

You have to wonder at the necessity to quote a six-year-old DM article about the distribution of Charles employees and 26-year-old tales of toothpaste. Are there no more recent canards and exaggerations to quote?

Like Charles in 1990, I broke my wrist and I too could not squeeze my toothpaste. A family member assisted just as Charles had assistance but like Charles, when my dominant hand is back to normal I will be quite capable of squeezing my own toothpaste. But let's be honest, a prince having a flunky to squeeze his toothpaste every day is just so much more amusing and outrageously over the top Edwardian grandee lifestyle to lampoon.

And let's not even begin to cover those boiled eggs for breakfast! Grace and favour? Creating 'Highgrove' as it is today as a working example of both beauty and self-sufficiency and it's gardens so wonderful people willingly pay for the opportunity to tour them.

the lavish entertaining and the perception of ingratitude, combined with the now infamous self-pity, can it times make Charles seem like he accidentally stumbled into a time machine on the way to Edward VII's coronation.

I would love to know what the above inditement is all about . . . whose perceptions, whose stories, any clarification would be gratefully received.

Hmm, lavish entertainment . . . check out HM when she entertained the President of France at a state banquet then look at other similar occasions. The nuances are the key.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

You have to wonder at the necessity to quote a six-year-old DM article about the distribution of Charles employees and 26-year-old tales of toothpaste. Are there no more recent canards and exaggerations to quote?

Like Charles in 1990, I broke my wrist and I too could not squeeze my toothpaste. A family member assisted just as Charles had assistance but like Charles, when my dominant hand is back to normal I will be quite capable of squeezing my own toothpaste. But let's be honest, a prince having a flunky to squeeze his toothpaste every day is just so much more amusing and outrageously over the top Edwardian grandee lifestyle to lampoon.

And let's not even begin to cover those boiled eggs for breakfast! Grace and favour? Creating 'Highgrove' as it is today as a working example of both beauty and self-sufficiency and it's gardens so wonderful people willingly pay for the opportunity to tour them.

I would love to know what the above inditement is all about . . . whose perceptions, whose stories, any clarification would be gratefully received.

Hmm, lavish entertainment . . . check out HM when she entertained the President of France at a state banquet then look at other similar occasions. The nuances are the key.

I was referring to the PERCEPTION of Charles as Edwardian Grandee. Given that a lot of what we know comes from, well, gossip it's not really a surprise under these circumstances that a old Daily Heil article will get cited. The main difference between when the queen is entertaining a foreign head of state and Charles is business leaders say, is that the queen is doing this on behalf of the government, whereas Charles is for all practical purposes for himself.

I brought this topic of King Charles in a possible post brexit UK up as I was interested to see how others thought Charles would handle the potential after effects of the recent referendum.

I honesty can't tell you for certain about Charles habits and there is so much spin and gossip that knowing one way or another is near impossible, and he is a more complex and serous person than is often given credit for.

BUT the point I was trying to make is that these stories about Charles' PERCIEVED extravagance and petulance, although relatively harmless on their own, could very harmful to both Charles himself as King and to the monarchy as an institution if the economy does not pick up or if Westminster screws up with Europe negotiations, could all very well take on a life of their own and do real damage, since the crown seems like a fairly likely target of public anger if Brussels is out of the picture.

I would add a smiley but the emojis on my phone don't register properly on this forum and I can't access the other ones.

 

[Osipi]

Ok to be fair that image of Charles is a bit overblown and he's not that different from the rest of the family and the extended European Royal family.

But it is the stories about the boiled eggs and having a valet squeeze toothpaste out for him are damaging as it fits in with previous actions such as rejecting a number of grace and favour properties and instead buying one of his own, the lavish entertaining and the perception of ingratitude, combined with the now infamous self pity, can it times make Charles seem like he accidentally stumbled into a time machine on the way to Edward VII's coronation

Actually, Charles does not own any residential property of his own. Clarence House is part of the Crown Estates. Highgrove is owned by the Duchy of Cornwall along with Llywynywermod (Wales) and Tamarisk (Isles of Scilly). His Scottish retreat of Birkhall is part of the Queen's private Balmoral estate that Charles will one day inherit. Dumfries House which people mistakenly believe was purchased outright by Charles and is his private property actually isn't.

"Due to its significance and the risk of the furniture collection being distributed and auctioned, after three years of uncertainty, in 2007 the estate and its entire contents was purchased for £45m for the country by a consortium headed by Charles, Prince of Wales, including a £20m loan from the Prince's charitable trust."

It is owned and managed by The Great Steward of Scotland Trust.

Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Actually, Charles does not own any residential property of his own. Clarence House is part of the Crown Estates. Highgrove is owned by the Duchy of Cornwall along with Llywynywermod (Wales) and Tamarisk (Isles of Scilly). His Scottish retreat of Birkhall is part of the Queen's private Balmoral estate that Charles will one day inherit. Dumfries House which people mistakenly believe was purchased outright by Charles and is his private property actually isn't.

"Due to its significance and the risk of the furniture collection being distributed and auctioned, after three years of uncertainty, in 2007 the estate and its entire contents was purchased for £45m for the country by a consortium headed by Charles, Prince of Wales, including a £20m loan from the Prince's charitable trust."

It is owned and managed by The Great Steward of Scotland Trust.

Just wanted to clear that up.

And good cleared up!

 

[Skippyboo]

Almost no one in the royal family own property, it's just the Queen with Balmoral and Sandringham which will pass down to Charles, William and then George and the Queen bought Anne Gatcombe Park.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Osipi]

Oh! I forgot to add that the properties that Charles had a finger in acquiring in Romania also are part and parcel of the Duchy of Cornwall. The Prince of Wales has bought and renovated properties in rural Romania to help protect the unique way of life that has existed for hundreds of years through the promotion of sustainable tourism.

Romania - The Duchy of Cornwall Cottages

Charles, himself, is a very astute businessman and is very passionate about preserving not only a way of life but also preserving the earth for future generations. He very well might seem extravagant and hedonistic in his lifestyle when it comes to entertaining or being a perfectionist as far as he likes things done but a lot of people are like that and need everything just so to appease them but it also shows Charles applies this to just about every aspect of his life and to me, that is what is going to be a strong point in his monarchy. He may have a silver toothpaste thingamajig to squeeze out every bit from the tube and prefer perfectly boiled eggs timed to three minutes exactly but this is a man that frowns on using a garbage disposal and prefers waste thrown in a bucket to be added to a compost heap for the gardens.

I think it all balances out and shows that Charles is a conscientious deep thinking man that looks at things in depth and he'll be the same with his duties as a monarch.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

I was always under the impression that Charles owned Highfrove and birkhall outright along with some property in Transylvania and other places - part of the fuss over highgrove was that is was in lieu of somewhere else in Kent (turns out it was cause it was closer to Camilla) and that he inherited birkhall from his grandmother as personal property. ?

 

[Osipi]

That's a very common train of thought, I think, with a lot of people. Charles moved into his grandmother's residence of Clarence House and set up base in Scotland at her former residence at Birkhall. However, QEQM did have her own private property in Scotland at the Castle of Mey. In July 1996 The Queen Mother made the property, the policies and the farm over to the Queen Elizabeth Castle of Mey Trust, which has opened the castle and garden to the public regularly since her death.

The British royal family would annually sail the western coast of the UK with the ultimate destination being the Queen Mother's home at Mey.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

With Queen Elizabeth II's reign, the Royal Maundy service is held in a different church every year. Do you think this will remain the same under King Charles III?