The Monarchy under Charles

[royal-blue]

It could be that the youngers don't want to do anything in which they're not interested.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think they even spend much time with the charities of which they are patrons if it's not going to be a photo op. Just my opinion.

And, to put another clarification on this, I think William is lazier than Kate; and probably more selfish too.

I had great respect for William for his flying work in the RAF, but when it comes to actual royal work, disappointingly, they are both seem to lack any real interest in the Firm.

 

[Rudolph]

Will Camilla actually be Princess Consort?

Although not answered directly, the inference from officials was also that Camilla would also not be crowned alongside the Prince of Wales. Rather, she will probably assume a similar place to that of the Duke of Edinburgh during the 1953 coronation.

Many people, myself included, continue to advocate the continued usage of the title of Queen by the wife of the King, not just because of personal admiration for the Duchess of Cornwall, but also to avoid the situation where denying the title to one consort may see the end to it altogether, and a consequence being no Queen Catherine as well as no Queen Camilla.


It does though seem pretty inescapable that Camilla will take on the title of Princess Consort, and those around her say she has no interest in taking on a higher title herself. The issue can only be kicked into the grass for so long, and whilst I don’t suspect there will be a U-turn on the matter, one day in the future I do think people will still react with surprise to find that we have a King with no Queen.

I think this is just wrong and both Charles and Camilla will do untold damage to the monarchy. It sets a bizarre precedent and if Camilla has no interest in becoming Queen she should have never married Charles in the first place or Charles should abdicate when the time comes.

No more Queen consorts because Camilla is "not negotiable" will be a sad ending to the British Monarchy.

 

[AristoCat]

I wonder how 'non-negotiable' Camilla would have been if Charles had been given the ultimatum, throne or Camilla, like Edward VIII. Second, it galls me that a mistress overthrew a Princess of Wales. To be blunt, women like Camilla, it's always about themselves, not about the institution and the broader picture.

 

[Osipi]

I wonder how 'non-negotiable' Camilla would have been if Charles had been given the ultimatum, throne or Camilla, like Edward VIII. Second, it galls me that a mistress overthrew a Princess of Wales. To be blunt, women like Camilla, it's always about themselves, not about the institution and the broader picture.

I respectfully disagree with you on the point that Camilla is "all about herself". If anything, she will rarely draw attention to herself and admirably supports Charles. I think its also unfair to lay the blame of "overthrowing" the Princess of Wales on Camilla. The marriage was a mess and unless we were actually part of it, we really have no clue of where to really lay blame.

I also hope that they leave the Queen Consort title as it is and Camilla wears it proudly. She's shown since her marriage to Charles in 2005 that she can and does carry out her role with grace and dignity. I don't expect her to be crowned along side Charles though. As stated previously, she most likely will take the same role in the coronation as the Duke of Edinburgh did in 1953.

 

[Rudolph]

But surely Camilla's interests shouldn't enter into a decision as monumental as this? Can anyone imagine if William made this announcement at the time of his wedding. Kate has no "interest" in becoming Queen.
Poor William can't spend Christmas with the Middletons without charges he is thumbing his nose at tradition and yet here is Charles and Camilla seemingly doing away with the biggest tradition of all.

 

[Cris M]

I wonder how 'non-negotiable' Camilla would have been if Charles had been given the ultimatum, throne or Camilla, like Edward VIII. Second, it galls me that a mistress overthrew a Princess of Wales. To be blunt, women like Camilla, it's always about themselves, not about the institution and the broader picture.

A statement like "a mistress overthrew the Princess of Wales" is what galls me.

No one overthrew Diana. Be careful, you're sounding like a Diana fanatic worshipper at the Daily Mail comments section.

 

[Zonk]

Before this goes even further, let's be clear.

Any and all posts relating to the Charles/Diana/Camilla triangle (marriages, affairs, etc.) will be deleted without notice.

 

[Dman]

The decision on Camilla's future HRH The Princess Consort title has nothing to do with Catherine's future title once William comes to the throne.

I think Camilla has proven that she didn't need to be officially called The Princess of Wales to do her duty as Charles's wife and as a senior member of the royal family. She's done a beautiful job as the Duchess of Cornwall and I think she'll do a wonderful job as The Princess Consort or Queen. I think since it's been agreed that Camilla will be titled The Princess Consort, I think that's how it should be.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

^^^Where's the documentation that Cam won't be Queen Consort? Camilla will be so loved by the people when it comes around to coronation time that they will not stand for "Princess Consort". Nor should they.

 

[Dman]

^^^Where's the documentation that Cam won't be Queen Consort? Camilla will be so loved by the people when it comes around to coronation time that they will not stand for "Princess Consort". Nor should they.

I don't there's anything saying that Camilla can't be Queen Consort. The Palace said that when Charles comes to the throne, Camilla would be titled Princess Consort. A PR tactic of course and it worked. The Palace and Clarence House current position is that it will be her title when Charles is King.

I think it really don't matter anyway. Princess Consort or Queen, people will get used to it after a while. No matter what, Camilla will be Queen, even with a different title. She's the current Princess of Wales but it's not the title that she officially go by.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

So there is no proof that she will be princess consort...just the same old stuff that was bandied about before their marriage.

 

[Dman]

We'll see how everything goes once that big event gets here. It's going to be interesting though.

 

[Rudolph]

So there is no proof that she will be princess consort...just the same old stuff that was bandied about before their marriage.

It comes straight from the official website

Will The Duchess become Queen when The Prince becomes King?

As was explained at the time of their wedding in April 2005, it is intended that The Duchess will be known as HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes to The Throne.

 

[ladongas]

It comes straight from the official website

Will The Duchess become Queen when The Prince becomes King?

Shouldn't that settle it, then? It would not be a good move for Charles' first act as monarch to be going back on his word. (If that sentence is ungrammatical, forgive me, and correct me. Thanks.)

 

[Ish]

This issue has been debated heavily already, and even has its own thread - http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...of-queen-when-charles-becomes-king-32105.html

To recap - it has been said that Camilla will be Princess Consort. This isn't because of her desire to not be Queen but rather an attempt to appease the masses when the wedding happened - people had their Diana fanaticism and their Camilla hatred. Things have changed in the time since then.

In order for Camilla to not be Queen legislature has to be passed in order to strip her of the title. If Charles wants to issue LPs making her a Princess in her own right he can, but unless Parliament decides to strip her of the title - which has wonderful implications doesn't it? - then she will be Queen.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Reading between the lines, it does seem that some folks on this board don't want Camilla to be Queen. How silly. Good reason for Camilla to call herself Duchess, but no reason at all not to be Queen.

Thank you, Ish.

 

[Dman]

Reading between the lines, it does seem that some folks on this board don't want Camilla to be Queen. How silly. Good reason for Camilla to call herself Duchess, but no reason at all not to be Queen.

Thank you, Ish.

Yes, there are some who don't want her to be Queen. I think she'll make a good consort no matter if she's called Her Majesty or remain Her Royal Highness.

 

[Ish]

It's not about whether or not she'll make a good consort. We already know she'll make a good consort as she's done a good job as his wife so far. What people are questioning is her suitability to be Queen - there are people who can't get beyond her being the Mistress and Diana being the wronged woman.

There are huge problems with Camilla being the Princess Consort. The two biggies:

1. Legislature is required, and possibly in multiple realms - is the King of Canada's wife automatically Queen of Canada? If so, then she has to be stripped of that title too, and so on through all the realms. Do these parliaments really need to spend time on the issue of stripping one woman of a title on the grounds that she was once a mistress?

2. There is absolutely no tradition of morganatic marriage in Britain. While times and traditions change, it is absolutely ridiculous for Britain in the 21st century to decide to introduce morganatic marriage when other realms are moving away from it as it's archaic.

 

[Iluvbertie]

More simply put, if I may Ish?

A woman always takes all her husband's names, titles etc. Camilla is doing that now as the Duchess of Cornwall - the title Charles has held since 6th February, 1952 (while he wasn't created Prince of Wales until 1958).

For her not to be The Queen is to deny her the same right as every other woman and that is not only against tradition but no other woman would be asked to not take her husband's titles - even if she has a higher one in her own right e.g. Princess Alexandra is also Lady Ogilvy and is referred to as both in the CC.

In some realms it may even been illegal to deny a woman her husband's titles and styles - it would be the same as saying to a woman 'you have married Mr John Smith but you can't call yourself Mrs John Smith for xxx reason'.

The sooner they drop that reference on the website the better - just to an update of the website and not include that question and answer.

 

[Ish]

Beautifully put, Bertie. I always love when you expand on and clarify things.

 

[Dman]

More simply put, if I may Ish?

A woman always takes all her husband's names, titles etc. Camilla is doing that now as the Duchess of Cornwall - the title Charles has held since 6th February, 1952 (while he wasn't created Prince of Wales until 1958).

For her not to be The Queen is to deny her the same right as every other woman and that is not only against tradition but no other woman would be asked to not take her husband's titles - even if she has a higher one in her own right e.g. Princess Alexandra is also Lady Ogilvy and is referred to as both in the CC.

In some realms it may even been illegal to deny a woman her husband's titles and styles - it would be the same as saying to a woman 'you have married Mr John Smith but you can't call yourself Mrs John Smith for xxx reason'.

The sooner they drop that reference on the website the better - just to an update of the website and not include that question and answer.

They've updated the website before but that fact remains that when Charles becomes King, Camilla will be titled HRH The Princess Consort. It's not only pointed out on Charles's official website but also on the official website for the British Monarchy as well. I think if that plan change, it'll be closer to the Coronation.

HRH The Princess Consort have a nice ring to it though.

 

[Ish]

Dman, do you even bother to read the well constructed reasoning for why the title is a problem before you tell us how the Princess Consort title sounds good and it doesn't matter because Camilla will do a good job either way?

 

[Dman]

Dman, do you even bother to read the well constructed reasoning for why the title is a problem before you tell us how the Princess Consort title sounds good and it doesn't matter because Camilla will do a good job either way?

Yes, but I just go by what's officially stated.

 

[Cris M]

This Princess Consort thing is an aberration. A spit in the face of tradition.

 

[VictoriaB]

HRH The Princess Consort have a nice ring to it though.

Just for Camilla or does it have a nice ring to it when applied to Catherine also? If the law and/or tradition is to be changed then it has to be a consistent application.

 

[cinrit]

What is officially stated is that "it is intended" that she will be known as Princess Consort. Intentions do not always convert to actions.

 

[Iluvbertie]

So true Cinrit.

I told people years ago that I 'intended' on retiring in 2012 but ... circumstances at the time meant that I have had to change that 'intention' - to now retiring in 2022 but who knows that 'intention' might change again.

 

[Dman]

Just for Camilla or does it have a nice ring to it when applied to Catherine also? If the law and/or tradition is to be changed then it has to be a consistent application.

It's has nothing to do with Catherine because the reasoning don't apply to her.

I just like the sound of the title though.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Of course it should apply to Kate if they are going to change the law then it needs to be for all future consorts and not just one - both male and female.

 

[Dman]

Of course it should apply to Kate if they are going to change the law then it needs to be for all future consorts and not just one - both male and female.

Catherine isn't in the same position as Camilla. Camilla's past is totally different from Catherine's past. So, no, none of this applies to Catherine.