The Monarchy under Charles

[Kataryn]

Simply - if Beatrice and Eugenie aren't going to do the work currently done by the Gloucesters and Kents and even their own uncle and aunt then those duties won't be done by royals.

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Sometimes I do wonder why the minor Royals do Royal duties at all. Most of the stuff is pretty boring anyway, then there is the time-consuming travel when the event is not in London. As for Royal PR: They are never recogniced for their work in the national papers anyway, must be glad to be mentioned in the Popplebury Examiner's local part... Okay, if a Royal gets bitten by a dog (or even better, as Camilla said, when a Royal bites a dog) then it might make the Daily Mail or the Telegraph but apart from extraordinary circumstances most Royal engagements are only mentioned in the Court Circular. While Pippa Middleton only needs a well-formed derriere to be in the news daily. That must suck.

Plus the parliament wants to pay less and less for the Royals, even though they grabbed the Crown Estate in exchange of the Civil List and now keep the surplus of the Crown Estate while not paying most Royals anymore. Ok, that is about to change but I'm sure once the financial situation of the RF has been cleared with them getting back part of the income of the Crown Estate instead of the Civil list we'll see an actual change when it comes to Royal duties.

But I doubt Charles thinks of it as a "downgrading" or "reducing" of the RF. Im sure he does not think of taking away Royal titles but he surely thinks about allowing most Royals to retire into their private lifes. Think Lady Ella Windsor: life as a journalist with a Royal background is much more fun than being on the Royal circuit opening hospital units in the deepest countryside. And I doubt Britain will change: the Windsors and the Mountbatten-Windsors will always be considered Royal and on top of society, HRH or not.

So why should they hang on to Royal duties when the "firm" does not reap the fruits of their work in form of public recognition while they could live their own life as they want on still being high society?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Sometimes I do wonder why the minor Royals do Royal duties at all. Most of the stuff is pretty boring anyway, then there is the time-consuming travel when the event is not in London.

Because the Queen asked them to do so and because it is what royals do.

As for Royal PR: They are never recogniced for their work in the national papers anyway, must be glad to be mentioned in the Popplebury Examiner's local part... Okay, if a Royal gets bitten by a dog (or even better, as Camilla said, when a Royal bites a dog) then it might make the Daily Mail or the Telegraph but apart from extraordinary circumstances most Royal engagements are only mentioned in the Court Circular. While Pippa Middleton only needs a well-formed derriere to be in the news daily. That must suck.

They do it because they have been asked to do so not for the PR.

Plus the parliament wants to pay less and less for the Royals, even though they grabbed the Crown Estate in exchange of the Civil List and now keep the surplus of the Crown Estate while not paying most Royals anymore. Ok, that is about to change but I'm sure once the financial situation of the RF has been cleared with them getting back part of the income of the Crown Estate instead of the Civil list we'll see an actual change when it comes to Royal duties.

The Crown Estates, at the time that George III first surrendered them paid a lot more than just the expenses of the King but also funded large parts of the government - as they do today.

But I doubt Charles thinks of it as a "downgrading" or "reducing" of the RF. Im sure he does not think of taking away Royal titles but he surely thinks about allowing most Royals to retire into their private lifes. Think Lady Ella Windsor: life as a journalist with a Royal background is much more fun than being on the Royal circuit opening hospital units in the deepest countryside. And I doubt Britain will change: the Windsors and the Mountbatten-Windsors will always be considered Royal and on top of society, HRH or not.

So why should they hang on to Royal duties when the "firm" does not reap the fruits of their work in form of public recognition while they could live their own life as they want on still being high society?

As for the 'royal duties' - I agree that they don't have to be done by royals but not because of the recognition factor - simply because it could be done by anyone - I mean does it really matter whether it is the Duke of Gloucester or the Mayor who opens the new wing of the hospital?

 

[Kataryn]

As for the 'royal duties' - I agree that they don't have to be done by royals but not because of the recognition factor - simply because it could be done by anyone - I mean does it really matter whether it is the Duke of Gloucester or the Mayor who opens the new wing of the hospital?

I tried to view it from the Royal's side: if they do such engagements they want something out of it and that is recognition and/or securing the monarchy by being present in the public eye. But the question is: how many of the Royals are needed for that aim and how many engagements do they have to fulfill? Once BP sold the idea that "downsizing" the RF is a way to bring in more democracy/ people-orientation to the monarchy and the people believe it, then the minor Royals can safely start living their lives as they want it.

EG Beatrice and Eugenie: they see how their cousins Wiliam and Harry are full-serving officers and still have to do as much Royal duties as possible in their free time. Both girls are students at the moment. Why should they want to become "working Royals" when they only got negative press so far? When they could lead a private life with an interesting job and enough free time to enjoy life at the top of the society pyramid?

And it is true: of course anyone in a certain position can open the local library or lay a wreath. So doing this is not even a guarantee for positive press or press at all. if the RF was a true business, they would have checked their efforts and their results decades ago and acted on the idea of optimization. As I see it, Charles will do that.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I tried to view it from the Royal's side: if they do such engagements they want something out of it and that is recognition and/or securing the monarchy by being present in the public eye.

Why do they need to want to get anything out of it?

Not everything we do is for what we get out of it. That is a shallow way of looking at things.

The older royals were raised, with Queen Mary very much in the picture and she drilled into her grandchildren that being royal came with responsibilities - that the privileged position they hold in society meant that they had to repay that society through duties.

The Queen Mum had the same attitude and passed that on to her children and grandchildren but the present Queen, her children and most particularly the spouses of those children have raised their children, William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie etc with the idea of living 'normal' lives rather than simply one of duty in return for privilege.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

And didn't the royals, especially the Queen Mother, open hospital wings, go to bazaars, etc., as a way to promote various charities at a time when the public was needed to fund hospitals to keep them operating? The royal presence guaranteed publicity and crowd attendance which helped generate the funding. I think the Queen Mother deplored the nationalization of health care and enterprises and socialized medicine as taking away the unique character of many of these enterprises.

So, in addition to repaying a debt to society, the royals were also supporting a good cause.

 

[Lady Gudgeon]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this question, but what will happen to (for lack of a better word, I'll call them) "peripheral royals" when Charles takes the throne? As his own, immediate family (the boys), will be "elevated" what happens to those like the Kents, Gloucesters, etc, (even his own siblings' children) who will be in a different relationship to the new monarch?

In watching all of the events over the past few days I was just wondering how things will change when Charles is King - do the garter knights change when the new monarch takes the throne? Will Camilla's children now participate, e.g.?

I'm not being too clear, but does anyone get what I'm asking? Not that I want QE to die at all, I'm just curious how things change from one monarch to the next. Who gets rotated in and out?

 

[Lumutqueen]

I can pretty much be certain that Camilla's children will never participate in royal events.

 

[Lady Gudgeon]

I can pretty much be certain that Camilla's children will never participate in royal events.

That was my initial thought too, but weren't some of her grandchildren on the balcony at the trooping the color? So is it that far fetched that once Charles if king that he might want her children there as well (and the children were at the wedding, right?)? Actually, I just assumed some of those kids were her grandkids because I thought there was a picture with her and them on the balcony...but I guess that doesn't mean they were related.

 

[Lumutqueen]

The kids on the balcony were Eloise and Estella Taylor, Lady Margarita Armstong-Jones, Lady Louise Windsor, the Taylor boys were on the left hand side. Laura, Harry, Tom, Sara and their children are not royal and are not in line to the throne. They are there own people, private citizens. Just with a future Queen Consort as their mum.

 

[Lady Gudgeon]

Thanks, Lumutqueen! I know they aren't and won't become in line to the throne, I just wasn't sure how much Charles felt like their step father (i.e. how close they are) and whether or not he would then want to bring them into the fold at all once he is in charge of those kinds of decisions.

Do you know what will happen with the Kents and Gloucesters? Will they have to leave KP?

How about Beatrice and Eugenie? I know it's rumored (fact?) that the Queen said they will get regular jobs and not become FT working royals and while it seem more normal to see them at all these events this week as the grandchildren of the monarch...would that be the same when they are just the niece of the monarch? Or would they continue to attend everything since they are in line to the throne?

 

[Osipi]

I think that when Charles does become King, appearances at the major family events will pretty much remain as they are now. As the years go by, I imagine that we'll even see Beatrice's and Eugenie's children on the balcony pretty much as we now see the descendants of Princess Margaret. I think Charles has a deep respect for his lineage and won't be one to want to change protocol and traditions very much. Downsizing the number of working royals is one thing as some get older and retire and some younger ones not even expected to work for the "Firm" is one thing but I think Charles will be a stickler for preserving the royal lineage along with all the historical pomp and circumstance.

 

[Zonk]

In addition, this is the one time that the junior junior royals (the great grand children of George V) get to enjoy the Palace. Most likely as they age, they won't be regular visitors to BP.

 

[Lady Gudgeon]

Very interesting! Thanks Osipi, Zonk and, of course, Lumutqueen, for sharing your thoughts. It's so interesting to me to think what might change and what might stay the same. Also weird to me to think about what things they have control over and what things they don't.

Seems kind of sad for Beatrice and Eugenie to sort of be phased out of a familiar childhood place...but I guess that's just the way it goes, and I guess they are prepared for it knowing that they are not in the direct succession line (unless something were to happen to Charles, William (before he has children) and Harry (before he has children)).

 

[Zonk]

The only thing that will affect Beatrice and Eugenie when Charles becomes King is the idea that they won't be doing royal duties. Personally, I don't see that happening but maybe they will be part time royals.

The York girls have never lived at BP, they might have stayed at Kensington Palace when their parents were married but I would expect that Andrew will keep The Royal Lodge when Charles becomes King so while they probably won't live there I can see them still having a room. I believe both girls have rooms/apts. at St. James Palace and I can't see that changing either, they might continue to use it as a London base when they marry and eventually start their families and buy new homes.

 

[Renata4711]

Lady Gudgeon - the Order is in the monarch's gift only.
It's worth reading the whole article.....

Order of the Garter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

As for the families of Kent and Gloucester, Prince Edward and Prince Richard are the only ones that really perform any official duties for the Queen.

Their children are not entitled to the HRH, and are styled as the children of non-royal dukes.

When the current Duke of Kent and Duke of Gloucester die, their heirs will inherit just like any other peer's heir apparent.. and Kent's sons are excluded from the succession in any case - as are their children - only his daughter, Lady Helen Taylor and her children, are still in the line of succession.

The Earl of Ulster is rarely seen in public, and his sisters also lead their lives as private citizens.. so I see them gently fading into the background when Charles becomes king.

Although they still may attend family gatherings, they are too far removed from the royal family to perform any official duties.. but as it looks now, both ducal titles are secured with an heir for at least two generations (counting the present heirs).

 

[Kataryn]

The kids on the balcony were Eloise and Estella Taylor, Lady Margarita Armstong-Jones, Lady Louise Windsor, the Taylor boys were on the left hand side. Laura, Harry, Tom, Sara and their children are not royal and are not in line to the throne. They are there own people, private citizens. Just with a future Queen Consort as their mum.

I wonder if things would have been different if Philip's sister had not married Germans but British nobles? Would Elizabeth asked them out on the Balcony then as her in-laws to enjoy the Fly Over?

 

[Zonk]

I honestly don't think it makes a different if they were German or English subjects. The people on the balcony are members of the extended extended British Royal Family (and even if that is a dubious claim), a majority of them are in direct Line of Succession and those that aren't are their spouses.

The claim could be that you won't see some of them but I don't imagine that Charles will tell the Kent and Gloucesters that their years of service mean nothing and you cant bring your grandchildren for a special treat at the Palace but most likely you wont' see Senna Lewis age 15 or her kids standing at the balcony. In addition, Charles is Marina's godfather and as is the Earl of Ulster or Lady Davinia.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The only thing that will affect Beatrice and Eugenie when Charles becomes King is the idea that they won't be doing royal duties. Personally, I don't see that happening but maybe they will be part time royals.

The York girls have never lived at BP, they might have stayed at Kensington Palace when their parents were married but I would expect that Andrew will keep The Royal Lodge when Charles becomes King so while they probably won't live there I can see them still having a room. I believe both girls have rooms/apts. at St. James Palace and I can't see that changing either, they might continue to use it as a London base when they marry and eventually start their families and buy new homes.

I know Beatrice has an appartment at St James' but that is because she lives in London full time as a uni student there.

Andrew has an appartment at BP, which he has had all his adult life and that is where Eugenie stays when she stays in London overnight I believe. I have also read that on the door of that apartment the title says TRH The Duke and Duchess of York - at Andrew's insistence and that Sarah still has an entry to that apartment.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Goodness Iluvbertie...Andrew is a much braver man than I thought...I had no idea that the door to his BP residence still reads "TRH" even though Sarah was stripped of HRH years ago...and that she can theoretically come there and stay anytime she pleases as Andrew's guest...!!

Can or will that change when Charles becomes King?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Goodness Iluvbertie...Andrew is a much braver man than I thought...I had no idea that the door to his BP residence still reads "TRH" even though Sarah was stripped of HRH years ago...and that she can theoretically come there and stay anytime she pleases as Andrew's guest...!!

Can or will that change when Charles becomes King?

I would presume that Charles can decide which members of his family will have apartments in BP when he is King - currently I think he is the only one of the Queen's children who doesn't have an apartment there - but maybe Anne doesn't either. I am sure that I have read somewhere that Anne has an apartment in either BP or St James'.

 

[pgm1952]

I have a feeling the monarchy will never feel the same when the Prince of Wales becomes king, to me at least. He seems so extravagent and then there is his environmentalism!! I have a funny feeling one of the many things he will do is encourage the politicians of the day in environmentally friendly legislature. Wich is great, but he should know the limits of the crown. He may want to change the system from red boxes to recycled brown paper bags!!

Also the attitude towards him may soften in the press and with the public with the new position. With the title of soverign comes respect and admiration, both genuine and by default as owed to the soverign. We all want to see the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on the throne, but I prefer the natural order to be observed and see Charles as king, to enjoy finally getting there. I loathe him otherwise but he deserves to be called king after a lifetime of waiting.

 

[Mia_mae]

Well, I have encounter a wonderful TV documentary about the Prince of Wales's charity work . Let's hope people in Britain will become more aware and proud of all of it as they should.

YouTube - ‪Prince Charles Interview - Part 1 of 2‬‏

and

YouTube - ‪Prince Charles Interview - Part 2 of 2‬‏

 

[Iluvbertie]

I
We all want to see the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on the throne, but I prefer the natural order to be observed and see Charles as king, to enjoy finally getting there. I loathe him otherwise but he deserves to be called king after a lifetime of waiting.

Must disagree.

I know a number of people who don't want the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on the throne - they are called republicans and don't want anyone on the throne.

 

[jemagre]

Must disagree.

I know a number of people who don't want the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on the throne - they are called republicans and don't want anyone on the throne.

Or those that think the duke and duchess haven't done anything of real substance yet to justify them getting the throne. They have yet to get their hands "dirty". Maybe here in a few years they will start to really get involved in some events. Right now I get the impression they throw on some nice clothes (or not depending on your fashion opinion) and go out to give a photo-op. I don't get those kind-of vibes from royals like the queen, prince Charles or princess anne.

 

[American Dane]

Or those that think the duke and duchess haven't done anything of real substance yet to justify them getting the throne. They have yet to get their hands "dirty". Maybe here in a few years they will start to really get involved in some events. Right now I get the impression they throw on some nice clothes (or not depending on your fashion opinion) and go out to give a photo-op. I don't get those kind-of vibes from royals like the queen, prince Charles or princess anne.

Absolutely agree.

 

[grevinnan]

At the moment the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are celebrities. Eventually they will be looked at as royals and their work will be judged accordingly. They are a breath of fresh air, being young and entering into matrimony without any baggage. Charles is the next regent and he has spent a lifetime preparing for it. He will do a great job. No reason to believe anything else.

When the day comes and William becomes the King he will be equally prepared and if monarchy is still an option in Great Britain then he will ascend the throne.

 

[jemagre]

At the moment the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are celebrities. Eventually they will be looked at as royals and their work will be judged accordingly. They are a breath of fresh air, being young and entering into matrimony without any baggage. Charles is the next regent and he has spent a lifetime preparing for it. He will do a great job. No reason to believe anything else.

When the day comes and William becomes the King he will be equally prepared and if monarchy is still an option in Great Britain then he will ascend the throne.

The only way they will be judged as royals is if they start being more involved in their duties. So far they don't show as much interest in that aspect of their lives. Maybe it is the lack of those royal duties that makes me feel like the only duties they are doing are the ones they want to but sometimes we have to do the things we don't want to do as well. They have yet to prove that they have an unselfish side in that regards. This is something that they could learn from the senior royals. What is it they say...one must always appear interested even if one is not.

Even this upcoming tour doesn't sit well with me. Maybe its the big deal everyone is making about an overpriced dinner cooked by celebrity chef Giada. Sorry but I just don't hear as much about the senior royals doing such things. Then again the Queen seems to avoid that aspect of life as much as she can. I think that is a good thing. It shows she knows what is important in life.

Hopefully as the tour progress we will get more than just staged pictures and see a genuine effort to achieve something besides helping along the fashion industry.

 

[COUNTESS]

Sorry, there is nothing this family does that has any great value to life itself. The Queen does what she was taught to do, which is basically, nothing, but smile, be polite and cut ribbons. She has lived her life in an exemplary fashion and is very astute to politics. She appears interested, but is she, and, if she is not who needs her. Prince Charles and Camilla do whatever it is they do. Camilla very little and Charles fashions himself as an critic of architecture. Many architectshave little respect for him. Yes, he was proponent for organic farming, but, then again, he can afford, the hand service. The Cambridges seem far more real. Kate is not full of herself and has a good sense of balance. She is not waited on hand and foot.

 

[Mia_mae]

It's clear some are not separating the hype from the people themselves. The media, will always hyperventilate about something new. It's up to the person reading all to separated fact/fiction/fantasy. This has happened before, and will keep happening. Nothing shocking.
Also why compared a couple barely in their thirties to someone who has at least some extra 30 years of experience? To compared son and father at their current state is too off, IMO.

HM won't live forever, if things stay as they "should" Charles will be king and then William. Only time will really tell how one hold "against" each other, in the mean time, let us not put the carriage before the horses