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  #3241  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post

Juliette brought up the title of "Queen Mother". Even if Diana had lived and had a happy marriage with Charles and was alive at the time William became King, I do not expect that she would ever be called The Queen Mother but rather remain as HM, Queen Diana. The only reason that there was a Queen Mother is because both women were Queens and both had the same first name. Queen Mary was never "Queen Mother" when her son, George VI ascended the throne.
Queen Mary actually was a Queen Mother (as was Queen Alexandra before her), she just didn't use the title.

Properly, a Queen Mother is a Dowager Queen who is the mother of the reigning monarch; Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother is the only queen to use the title in recent history, partially because she and her daughter shared a name so it helped distinguish them, and partially because when QEII's reign started there were three British Queens - QEII, QEQM, and Queen Mary.

Previously, it had been used by Henrietta Maria, widow of Charles I and mother to Charles II and James II.
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  #3242  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
I was an avid Princess Diana fan but goodness...the woman has been dead for more than 20 years! I have recently started to warm up to Charles and Camilla, especially with their support of Harry and Meghan. It's time that this nonsense ends...Camilla should be called the Princess of Wales and be the future Queen. end of story.
I agree. Though I do feel that Camilla avoiding being called the Princess of Wales was just being practical (and considerate). Camilla very much has her own identity as the Duchess of Cornwall, whereas were she to have used the moniker Princess of Wales there would have been a continual haze through which she would have been seen (and judged). It made sense to avoid the other imo.

Which brings up the tabloid press who continually stir the pot of Diana. It is endless. I notice it in nearly every news story regarding Meghan, for example. It's pretty heavy handed, and very often a continual negative spin is given regarding Charles. Does no one tire of it? Unsavory imo. I wonder that people do not see how much they are being 'played' with all that, but that's what makes the tabloids successful. Sigh'
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  #3243  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Which brings up the tabloid press who continually stir the pot of Diana. It is endless. I notice it in nearly every news story regarding Meghan, for example. It's pretty heavy handed, and very often a continual negative spin is given regarding Charles. Does no one tire of it? Unsavory imo. I wonder that people do not see how much they are being 'played' with all that, but that's what makes the tabloids successful. Sigh'
Personally, I have to admit that I don't see it at all. That's because I refuse to read tabloids. I won't, for the most part, click on tabloid links posted here although I'll admit that the Daily Mail has excellent photographs.

Also, thanks Ish for providing even more detail into the Queen Mother title. This is the stuff I find fascinating. Who needs tabloids when one can actually learn something factual and relevant to the BRF?
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  #3244  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Personally, I have to admit that I don't see it at all. That's because I refuse to read tabloids. I won't, for the most part, click on tabloid links posted here although I'll admit that the Daily Mail has excellent photographs.
Actually, I don't read tabloids either. Just a shorthand way of saying it. I am very often not on TRF but I do like to keep abreast of things so usually click on the Yahoo stories, or such, that come up in my newsfeed. The result is I see a broad range of stories emanating from a variety of outlets (though I'm guessing they are using one or two sources to work from, like the DM, just a hunch). It's there I see the endless re-hash of Diana stuff. It's pretty consistent (and constant).
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  #3245  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:10 AM
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I see those too when I peruse through the stories on my AOL news feed. There isn't a day that goes by without 4-5 stories about the BRF usually with titles like "William can't do this with George until he's 12" and "Dark Secrets from Prince Philip's past" and "Diana had to eat this everyday". I don't click on them and read them but I think a lot of Americans do and base their knowledge of the British monarchy on them. Its kind of sad. No wonder Charles, at one time, referred to the British royal family being turned into "a bloody soap opera".

All of this kind of thing will definitely go berserk and over the top when it comes time for Charles' coronation.
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  #3246  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I see those too when I peruse through the stories on my AOL news feed. There isn't a day that goes by without 4-5 stories about the BRF usually with titles like "William can't do this with George until he's 12" and "Dark Secrets from Prince Philip's past" and "Diana had to eat this everyday". I don't click on them and read them but I think a lot of Americans do and base their knowledge of the British monarchy on them. Its kind of sad. No wonder Charles, at one time, referred to the British royal family being turned into "a bloody soap opera".

All of this kind of thing will definitely go berserk and over the top when it comes time for Charles' coronation.
So that is good for you, Osipi. But I'm not sure why you chose to challenge me regarding my comment and now present as being above clicking on stories in your newsfeed. Is this necessary? Or relevant? What does it have to do with anything?

Fact is, stories often have Diana-stuff inserted. If you don't see it does not mean it's not there, but more pertinent, of course you wouldn't see it because you don't click on stories. I think we have that sorted. Can we move on?
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  #3247  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:33 AM
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Actually, I was agreeing with you and just adding onto what you stated. If it came across as me challenging you, I sincerely apologize.
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  #3248  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Actually, I was agreeing with you and just adding onto what you stated. If it came across as me challenging you, I sincerely apologize.
Okay. Sorry if I was being too sensitive. It felt like I was laboring to be understood on what seemed to me a pretty straight forward observation. Plus it was literally my first post after being gone from TRF for while. Thank you for the kind acknowledgement. We can move on, I think.
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  #3249  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:42 AM
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Glad to see you back as I've missed your posts.
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  #3250  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:44 AM
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Glad to see you back as I've missed your posts.
Thank you, Osipi. Always nice to be back on though I have to make sure I have a chunk of free time when I come back on. The scale of posting that confronts one when one has been absent is daunting. I'm long past trying to read everything to catch up anymore, but I do like to get the drift.
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  #3251  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
We will know where they go to school. And I don't entirely agree that E and S are seeking "normal." The kids are privileged and I don't think the family minds that.
Are you saying Edward and Sophie want their children to have all the perks without any of the obligations of being a member of the Royal House ?

That is wrong IMHO. James and Louise should be HRHs as determined by King George V's Letters Patent.
  #3252  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:53 AM
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Anne's children would be an example that the Wessex children would be following albeit that the Wessex children are styled as children as an Earl (and eventually children of a Duke) while Anne's children have no title at all. All four children are grandchildren of a monarch.

As I see it, the will and pleasure of Queen Elizabeth II, as monarch, can and does override the letters patent of George V.
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  #3253  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Are you saying Edward and Sophie want their children to have all the perks without any of the obligations of being a member of the Royal House ?

That is wrong IMHO. James and Louise should be HRHs as determined by King George V's Letters Patent.
The Queen however changed that by issuing the statement that they wouldn't have those titles and The Queen's Will is all that is needed to change titles. They do not need LPs.

Why would she do that?

Presumably because she is foreshadowing the time when only the children of the heir apparent will be HRH and not the children of the younger children but she didn't want to strip her cousins of their titles and this way that didn't happen.

I will be very surprised if she now issues LPs giving HRH to Harry's children so they won't be born with the HRH and then when Charles becomes King he will simply confirm that they aren't HRHs.

As things currently stand Charlotte's children won't be HRH and if the new baby is a girl that would be two of three of William's children without that right making it easier to thus issue the LPs.

The York girls aren't wanted or needed on the working royal roster so why would Edward's children who are even further from the throne?

The intention of a smaller royal family is coming about slowing (although William having three children will make it larger in his time).
  #3254  
Old 03-19-2018, 07:55 AM
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George V followed the (pre-Revolution) French standard under which the Royal House consisted of:


1. The King and the Queen Consort.
2. The monarch's legitimate children.
3. The monarch's legitimate grandchildren in male line.
4. The legitimate children of the eldest son of the heir to the throne.
5. The Queen Dowager when applicable.

In addition, wives of royal princes were also members of the Royal House by marriage whereas husbands of royal princesses were not.

With the introduction of equal primogeniture, the list above could be modernized to include all legitimate grandchildren of the monarch (in both paternal and maternal line) and all royal consorts and widows/widowers, either male or female, which is close to the Belgian system now (with the exception that, in Belgium, all grandchildren of the heir are also members of the Royal House).

I don't see a need for a minimalist Royal House, as in Spain or Norway today for example, as long as public funding is limited to the monarch, the monarch's consort, and the heir (and his/her consort), while other members of the Royal House get reimbursed only for official duties they perform. There could be public funding also for the dowager or former monarch upon abdication, which is fair.
  #3255  
Old 03-19-2018, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Queen however changed that by issuing the statement that they wouldn't have those titles and The Queen's Will is all that is needed to change titles. They do not need LPs.

Why would she do that?

Presumably because she is foreshadowing the time when only the children of the heir apparent will be HRH and not the children of the younger children but she didn't want to strip her cousins of their titles and this way that didn't happen.

I will be very surprised if she now issues LPs giving HRH to Harry's children so they won't be born with the HRH and then when Charles becomes King he will simply confirm that they aren't HRHs.

As things currently stand Charlotte's children won't be HRH and if the new baby is a girl that would be two of three of William's children without that right making it easier to thus issue the LPs.

The York girls aren't wanted or needed on the working royal roster so why would Edward's children who are even further from the throne?

The intention of a smaller royal family is coming about slowing (although William having three children will make it larger in his time).

Really...see I expect Harry's kids to be HRH either issued so by the Queen or when Charles is monarch.

Interesting.


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  #3256  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:13 AM
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Why would the queen issue LPs to give her greatgrandchildren a title she actively withheld from her grandchildren?
  #3257  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Why would the queen issue LPs to give her greatgrandchildren a title she actively withheld from her grandchildren?


I disagree that she “actively withheld”, I strongly believe that the decision was Edward and Sophie’s and The Queen agreed.

Unless you mean something else.
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  #3258  
Old 03-19-2018, 11:02 AM
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I agree. Anne's children do not have a title at all because their father declined a title. Sophie and Edward requested that their children be styled as children of an Earl (until Edward is created The Duke of Edinburgh when the title becomes available).
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  #3259  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Anne's children would be an example that the Wessex children would be following albeit that the Wessex children are styled as children as an Earl (and eventually children of a Duke) while Anne's children have no title at all. All four children are grandchildren of a monarch.

As I see it, the will and pleasure of Queen Elizabeth II, as monarch, can and does override the letters patent of George V.
Princess Margaret's kids have titles but live fairly private lives.
  #3260  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I agree. Anne's children do not have a title at all because their father declined a title. Sophie and Edward requested that their children be styled as children of an Earl (until Edward is created The Duke of Edinburgh when the title becomes available).
What would have been different had they been HRH Prince and Princess?
They wouldn't be working royals either way I think?
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