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  #2941  
Old 02-23-2017, 08:53 PM
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The Monarchy under Charles

Legally Camilla is Queen as soon as Charles is King. Is Parliament going to pass a law that changes 1000 years of common law where a wife takes the titles of her husband because of one person. Even if Camilla uses the Princess Consort, she is still doing the job description of the Queen. She would still be the highest ranked lady in the land. Charles isn't going to put Kate or Anne ahead of Camilla in order of precedence. She isn't going to be left behind in Ray Mill House when Charles is hosting a State Dinner.
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  #2942  
Old 02-23-2017, 08:56 PM
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She likes having her own house at Ray Mill. Why would she give that up? She's legally the Pss of W now, but uses Dss of C. I dont see a problem with Charles keeping his word, and Camilla being Pss Consort.
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  #2943  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Legally Camilla is Queen as soon as Charles is King. Is Parliament going to pass a law that changes 1000 years of common law where a wife takes the titles of her husband because of one person. Even if Camilla uses the Princess Consort, she is still doing the job description of the Queen. She would still be the highest ranked lady in the land. Charles isn't going to put Kate or Anne ahead of Camilla in order of precedence. She isn't going to be left behind in Ray Mill House when Charles is hosting a State Dinner.
Right, Camilla will do the job as the King's Consort regardless. That's not the issue. The issue is over her official title.
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  #2944  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:47 PM
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Her titles are the female versions of her husband's titles. Once the Queen dies, Charles is no longer Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Chester... He is the King and the female version of her husband's title is Queen. Not Princess.
  #2945  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Daenerys Targaryen View Post
That would be my guess too. His late Grandmother made QE swear that she would never allow the marriage. It was not until after he death that the wedding became remotely possible.
I have never heard this. Where did you hear that the Queen Mother made her daughter swear to never allow the marriage?

Given the religious beliefs of the Queen such a promise would have been binding I would have thought and as such I doubt, if she had ever made such a promise, that she would have broken it.

Had the Queen Mum said such a thing I am sure she would also have said that Camilla wasn't to ever have access to any of her jewels and yet Camilla is often seen wearing those jewels and even has one of her rings as her second engagement ring.
  #2946  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Daenerys Targaryen View Post
The question is, was Charles sincere when he said Camilla will be Princess Consort, or was he lying in order to get the marriage through with a minimum of fuss, planning that afterwards he would just change it t Queen.
It was stated as an intention. Times change and so do people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daenerys Targaryen View Post
That would be my guess too. His late Grandmother made QE swear that she would never allow the marriage. It was not until after he death that the wedding became remotely possible.
I'm sorry but I find the very notion that such an oath existed utterly credulous. Can you provide a reputable reference to support that such an oath was indeed demanded by QEQM, made and then broken by the Queen? If so then I could only surmise that HM despised her mother and dances on her grave every time she gifts yet another of her mothers treasured jewels to her daughter-in-law, starting with her engagement ring!uld

As to the issue being over her official title, I can only say that at this time, officially, when Charles comes to the throne Camilla will be his Queen. To change this would take the very strong will of the Queen and a willing parliament. Neither of which I believe will be forthcoming. What profit the United Kingdom in the eyes of the world if they enshrine petty spite and meanness of spirit in law
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  #2947  
Old 02-23-2017, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have never heard this. Where did you hear that the Queen Mother made her daughter swear to never allow the marriage?

Given the religious beliefs of the Queen such a promise would have been binding I would have thought and as such I doubt, if she had ever made such a promise, that she would have broken it.

Had the Queen Mum said such a thing I am sure she would also have said that Camilla wasn't to ever have access to any of her jewels and yet Camilla is often seen wearing those jewels and even has one of her rings as her second engagement ring.
I'm not sure The Queen made a promise to her mother over the marriage, but everyone knew The Queen Mother was against any thought of marriage between Charles and Camilla. She allowed them to 'knock da boots' in her private estates, but marriage wasn't something she agreed to.
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  #2948  
Old 02-23-2017, 10:52 PM
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I think for the QM it was too much like the David situation...that thought of that type of scandal again must of made her ill.


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  #2949  
Old 02-23-2017, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I think for the QM it was too much like the David situation...that thought of that type of scandal again must of made her ill.


LaRae
Nobody liked the situation. Not even The Queen herself. Charles was Prince of Wales and he could do what he wanted. That's just how the cookie cumbles.
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  #2950  
Old 02-23-2017, 11:18 PM
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If only he'd decided to 'do what he wanted' back when he was 'pushed' into marrying Diana. Took him awhile to find his backbone.


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  #2951  
Old 02-23-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Daenerys Targaryen View Post
What makes you think she would want to do that? She stonewalled the C+C relationship/marriage for decades.


For decades?

In what universe did that happen?

Charles met Camilla in 1971. They dated until 1973, when the relationship ended.

That same year, Camilla married Andrew Parker Bowles. Most reports on the early relationship imply that marriage wasn't even considered between Charles and Camilla at that point.

The pair remained friends and rekindled a romance in 1979/1980, while Camilla remained married to Andrew. She didn't divorce Andrew until 1995.

Charles of course married Diana in 1981. It's not clear when his sexual relationship with Camilla ended (with some sources claiming that it didn't end until the day before his wedding), but it's been implied that the affair resumed around 1985/86. Charles wasn't divorced until 1996.

Charles and Camilla married in 2005, 10 years after her divorce and 9 after his.

Where are these decades in which the Queen was stonewalling anything? There's no reason to believe she did anything to stop the relationship in the 70s, or when it resumed as an affair in the 80s, or in the 90s as their first marriages came to their ends. And when Charles and Camilla wanted to marry in 2005, the Queen allowed it.
  #2952  
Old 02-23-2017, 11:34 PM
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If only he'd decided to 'do what he wanted' back when he was 'pushed' into marrying Diana. Took him awhile to find his backbone.


LaRae
Well, Charles Did have his eyes set on another woman back in the day. Also, he wanted to take some time to gain some experience. Also, he was listening to his great uncle 'Dickie.'
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  #2953  
Old 02-24-2017, 03:28 AM
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I am confused, suddenly we have "fake news" all over the forum, no proof of where it came from but there it is is, stirring and corrupting what little proof we can actually validate. I cannot in all conscience, believe that this is random or unintentional.
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  #2954  
Old 02-24-2017, 03:57 AM
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http://http://www.spectator.co.uk/20...ong-heres-why/

A recent piece from The Spectaor- odd I was always certain they were pro Charles, but these things are so much in flux these days, I just can't tell anymore... still seems a little sanctimonious and unfair - it's been twenty years after all and it's the same magazine that publishes Taki....
  #2955  
Old 02-24-2017, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Legally Camilla is Queen as soon as Charles is King. Is Parliament going to pass a law that changes 1000 years of common law where a wife takes the titles of her husband because of one person. Even if Camilla uses the Princess Consort, she is still doing the job description of the Queen. She would still be the highest ranked lady in the land. Charles isn't going to put Kate or Anne ahead of Camilla in order of precedence. She isn't going to be left behind in Ray Mill House when Charles is hosting a State Dinner.
Nonetheless, as Princess Consort, she won"t be crowned as she would be as Queen; she won"t use the predicate HM and foreign HRHs won"t curtsy to her as they would to a Queen. Basically, as PC, she will have the rank and precedence that Philip has or that Henrik had until recently in Denmark and we all know how Henrik felt about it and he wanted to be made King Consort instead.
  #2956  
Old 02-24-2017, 07:20 AM
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Just more reasons for Charles not to do anything. The legal precedence and 1000 years of tradition is the wife of a King is a Queen. Is Parliament going to force the King to lower his legal wife married with approval of the Royal Marriage Act to a lesser title that has never been used in the history of British/English monarchy because on some Puritan view of morality? I don't think so especially with a large portion of the population have divorced. Also if both Charles and Camilla are guilty of the same moral crime, why is only Camilla is theoretically punished not both.
  #2957  
Old 02-24-2017, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
It was stated as an intention. Times change and so do people.

I'm sorry but I find the very notion that such an oath existed utterly credulous. Can you provide a reputable reference to support that such an oath was indeed demanded by QEQM, made and then broken by the Queen? If so then I could only surmise that HM despised her mother and dances on her grave every time she gifts yet another of her mothers treasured jewels to her daughter-in-law, starting with her engagement ring!uld

As to the issue being over her official title, I can only say that at this time, officially, when Charles comes to the throne Camilla will be his Queen. To change this would take the very strong will of the Queen and a willing parliament. Neither of which I believe will be forthcoming. What profit the United Kingdom in the eyes of the world if they enshrine petty spite and meanness of spirit in law
I just read it in a book just last week. I will pull up the quote later today. I have to go to Physical therapy this morning for the broken leg.
  #2958  
Old 02-24-2017, 08:44 AM
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I don't think people should be fearful over the future of the monarchy. I know people are concerned about Charles outspokenness on many issues, but he's just going to be a king that care about his people, country and world.

The drama over Camilla's future title will get crazy once again, but she's going to do the job as Charles's Consort beautifully. She's been doing the job as his wife brilliantly and people's thoughts and feelings about has softened with the passing of the years.

The monarchy will be in good hands.
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  #2959  
Old 02-24-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Nonetheless, as Princess Consort, she won"t be crowned as she would be as Queen; she won"t use the predicate HM and foreign HRHs won"t curtsy to her as they would to a Queen. Basically, as PC, she will have the rank and precedence that Philip has or that Henrik had until recently in Denmark and we all know how Henrik felt about it and he wanted to be made King Consort instead.
Isn't it true also that in order to use the style of Princess Consort, Camilla would have to be made a Princess of the UK in her own right as Charles, being King, will not have a princely title for his wife to take the feminine version. Her style then would be Princess Consort but she would also be Princess Camilla.

I don't believe that there's ever been a female spouse that has be created a princess in her own right in the UK. In reality, doing this would be conferring an honor on Camilla that no other spouse has ever had. There is, however, the case of Princess Alexandra who was able to revert to using Princess Alexandra of Kent after the death of her husband, Sir Angus Ogilvy. Difference being that Alexandra was the granddaughter of a King.

It would be so much easier and less worrisome to sort out to just declare Camilla as Queen Consort when Charles becomes King and let the chips fall where they may.
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  #2960  
Old 02-24-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Isn't it true also that in order to use the style of Princess Consort, Camilla would have to be made a Princess of the UK in her own right as Charles, being King, will not have a princely title for his wife to take the feminine version. Her style then would be Princess Consort but she would also be Princess Camilla.

I don't believe that there's ever been a female spouse that has be created a princess in her own right in the UK. In reality, doing this would be conferring an honor on Camilla that no other spouse has ever had. There is, however, the case of Princess Alexandra who was able to revert to using Princess Alexandra of Kent after the death of her husband, Sir Angus Ogilvy. Difference being that Alexandra was the granddaughter of a King.

It would be so much easier and less worrisome to sort out to just declare Camilla as Queen Consort when Charles becomes King and let the chips fall where they may.
Louise, Princess Royal and Duchess of Fife two daughters were made princesses in their own right with the style Highness .

and princess alexandra never chose or was obliged to discontinue the use of the title and style of Princess and royal Highness upon marriage .

edit : i missed the word female ' spouse ' when i written the response but now think you were right on this issue .
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