The Honours thread 1: Until 2022


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Lewis Hamilton is so young; he's in the midst of his career.
 
Hamilton broke Schumacher's record but he does not pay taxes in the UK. Many people never warmed to him because he once said he grew up in a slum (Stevenage) and has a broader focus than the UK, he considers himself a cosmopolitan.

I remember that David Beckham was taken off the list many years ago because although he may pay taxes in the UK, he had a lot of money hidden in tax schemes offshore.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Hamilton broke Schumacher's record but he does not pay taxes in the UK. Many people never warmed to him because he once said he grew up in a slum (Stevenage) and has a broader focus than the UK, he considers himself a cosmopolitan.

I remember that David Beckham was taken off the list many years ago because although he may pay taxes in the UK, he had a lot of money hidden in tax schemes offshore.
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Lewis Hamilton is quite a "marmite" character, because there are people who really love or really hate him. Whilst he may have won BBC's Sport Personality of 2020 (based on public votes), most listeners and radio hosts on TalkRadio really dislike him.
 
The New Year Honours List includes 1,239 recipients I didn't realize there were than many!
 
When a recipient of an honour passes away , are the family required to return it to the crown or does it remain with the family.
I am thinking particularly of the RVO or the Royal Family Order.

I was reading a really interesting post in an other thread re Princess Alice and she was pictured wearing a family honour, and it struck me that although close to the throne at that time her descendants would be quite removed so made me wonder if these honours are returned on death.
 
Hallo girl said:
When a recipient of an honour passes away , are the family required to return it to the crown or does it remain with the family.
I am thinking particularly of the RVO or the Royal Family Order.

I was reading a really interesting post in an other thread re Princess Alice and she was pictured wearing a family honour, and it struck me that although close to the throne at that time her descendants would be quite removed so made me wonder if these honours are returned on death.
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The RVO the family is allowed to keep the insignia, but the collar must be returned on the death of the holder.

The Garter, the breast star and the lesser George are returned to the queen by the member's closest male relative by tradition.


Alice was Grand Dame Cross of the RVO and of the British empire. In both cases the collar must be returned on death, while other insignia is retained by the family of the recipient. As many of those who receive these orders have no relation at all to the royal family, the distance from the throne of Alice's grandchildren (2 of her 3 grandchildren are alive) is of little matter.
 
Thank you very much for the information Countessmeout, much appreciated.
 
Well without getting too political I suspect this has more to do with British involvement in the invasion of Iraq. It was & remains deeply divisive & controversial.
 
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He is waiting to be knighted to sell himself to the highest bidder, me, me, me, money, money, money. It was the same with Beckham.

Maybe he has hidden money in places that will embarrass the Queen once it comes to light and the faces the choice to strip him of the honor again.
It was a huge embarrassment with Lester Piggott, who had to go to prison for tax evasion.
 
Durham said:
Well without getting too political I suspect this has more to do with British involvement in the invasion of Iraq. It was & remains deeply divisive & controversial.
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And the Cash-for-Honours scandal of the mid 2000's.
 
He took the yacht. I think that is what the family will not forgive.
 
The incoming Labour government were not committed to replacing Britannia certainly but it wasn't as personal as the PM making a unilateral decision. It had Labour Party support.

This is what destroyed Blair's reputation:

BBC NEWS | UK | 'Million' march against Iraq war

He made a famous speech in the Commons claiming that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction & that the UK should support the US. What followed was a utter mess of an occupation in which hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people & hundreds of British servicemen & women suffered. At least a million displaced persons. No weapons of mass destruction were ever found.

The Chilcot Inquiry of 2016 did not make for comfortable reading for Mr Blair:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36721645

"The circumstances in which it was decided that there was a legal basis for UK military action were "far from satisfactory"".

I would be amazed if Mr Blair was ever given any honour by the British state.

Sorry if that's a bit political for TRF.
 
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It's probably a few things, but none of Blair's prime ministerial successors have been honoured, either, for various good reasons. Right?

Perhaps Mr Tony started a tradition?
 
Prinsara said:
It's probably a few things, but none of Blair's prime ministerial successors have been honoured, either, for various good reasons. Right?

Perhaps Mr Tony started a tradition?
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I don't think so. Gordon Brown received Honours from Universities and Honorary Fellow of Royal Society of Edinburgh.

Well, apart from Theresa May's husband, Philip May who was knighted for political service in Boris Johnson's belated (2019) Dissolution Honours in July 2020. He becomes Sir Philip May. Theresa May is entitled to use Lady May, but I think she is still addressed as Theresa May in parliament and public media.

Former PM now Lady May after husband is knighted
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/former-pm-now-lady-may-after-husband-is-knighted-6bnxskmd3
 
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padams2359 said:
He took the yacht. I think that is what the family will not forgive.
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With very few exceptions, most of the honours are given by the Government not the Queen.

Generally, it is possible Mr Blair has been offered an award and indicated he would not accept. People refuse for all sorts of reasons - because they disagree with the system, because they don't like the word "Empire" in MBE, OBE, CBE etc and others because they don't think they are being given a high enough award. Unless they go public, we don't know they've indicated they will refuse or the reason why.
 
Prinsara said:
It's probably a few things, but none of Blair's prime ministerial successors have been honoured, either, for various good reasons. Right?

Perhaps Mr Tony started a tradition?
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I read somewhere that Blair created a bottleneck; that the other PM's would have been honored but they can't do it without blatantly snubbing Blair.
And they don't wish to grant Blair such an honor.
 
AC21091968 said:
I don't think so. Gordon Brown received Honours from Universities and Honorary Fellow of Royal Society of Edinburgh.

Well, apart from Theresa May's husband, Philip May who was knighted for political service in Boris Johnson's belated (2019) Dissolution Honours in July 2020. He becomes Sir Philip May. Theresa May is entitled to use Lady May, but I think she is still addressed as Theresa May in parliament and public media.

Former PM now Lady May after husband is knighted
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/former-pm-now-lady-may-after-husband-is-knighted-6bnxskmd3
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Honorary doctorates/fellowships from universities/royal society are a far step from a royal honor like the RVO.


Reportedly he turned down a knighthood when he left office. But later the story was spun he had been denied it due to Diana. The story has been bounced around for year.


The issue for Brown and others seems to be they can't knight them without knighting Blair. At least without a good reason, or seen as a snub.
 
Would Brown even accept, though? And Cameron/May/and currently-Johnson-on track haven't exactly been so deserving that not awarding them anything seems particularly awkward, so there's a perfect excuse to continue not giving anything to TB. It might be the Blair Bottleneck, but the bottle seems firmly corked for now.
 
I must have missed Philip May's knighthood last summer :ermm:
 
Gordon Brown has carried out a great deal of well respected work since he left office, possibly deserving in an honour in its own right. Blair on the other hand has made a lot of money.
 
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Nick Clegg, who was David Cameron's deputy PM, was knighted.


With Tony Blair, there was a lot of controversy over the Iraq war. And he gets on people's nerves by repeatedly sticking his oar in about everything, years after leaving office. There are a lot of stories that the Queen doesn't like Blair, because of everything that happened when Diana died, or because of Britannia, but it isn't the Queen who makes the decisions about honours.


It's arguably partly down to his own Labour party - the Opposition leader will recommend certain people for honours, and the Government will accept unless there's any real objection to them. Tony Blair's name has presumably not been mentioned.
 
Previous PMs though had been given the Order of the Garter - something in the Queen's personal gift. Both John Major and Margaret Thatcher had the Garter as did their predecessors other than Sir Alec Douglas-Hume who was given the Thistle. Prior to Margaret Thatcher, if they weren't peers, they were usually made a peer although Winston said 'no' to a peerage.

It was rumoured that Gordan Brown would be given the Thistle instead due to his Scottish heritage (as the Queen did with Sir Robert Menzies, former PM of Australia who was offered the Garter but asked for the Thistle instead).

If Blair had been offered a knighthood and turned it down he would have made that public so it seems he hasn't been offered either a 'run-of-the-mill' knighthood or one in the personal gift of the monarch and until he is, or dies, no later PM will get such an honour.
 
Alison H said:
Nick Clegg, who was David Cameron's deputy PM, was knighted.

With Tony Blair, there was a lot of controversy over the Iraq war. And he gets on people's nerves by repeatedly sticking his oar in about everything, years after leaving office. There are a lot of stories that the Queen doesn't like Blair, because of everything that happened when Diana died, or because of Britannia, but it isn't the Queen who makes the decisions about honours.


It's arguably partly down to his own Labour party - the Opposition leader will recommend certain people for honours, and the Government will accept unless there's any real objection to them. Tony Blair's name has presumably not been mentioned.
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BIB: Judging from party members and other political commentators who commented on social media, I don't think Tony Blair is well liked on both sides (Conservative, Labour and even Lib Dem). He is certainly not liked on the left/socialist-fraction of the Labour Party (Momentum and Corbyn supporters). This kind of explain why there has "supposedly" no recommendations by Leader of the Opposition or acceptance of recommendation by the Prime Ministers. Even when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister, Tony Blair was not given knighthood, despite both being in the Labour Party. But then again, there might be feud and rivalry between them.

Margaret Thatcher's husband, Denis Thatcher was given hereditary peerage to the House of Lords by John Major. Margaret Thatcher herself received a life peerage in 1992.

After Margaret Thatcher resigned in 1990 John Major granted her husband, Denis, a baronetcy. His wife was thus styled Lady Thatcher, the title by which she was known until she received a life peerage in 1992 and became Baroness Thatcher.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/former-pm-now-lady-may-after-husband-is-knighted-6bnxskmd3

With the exception Theresa May's husband receiving knighthood, I don't think former Prime Ministers after Tony Blair would be getting Honours by The Queen or even elevated to The House of Lords any time soon. Well, Theresa May is still a MP in the House of Commons. John Bercow is probably the first former speaker not automatically elevated to the House of Lords after his Speaker post. Bercow is not even in any Honours list (included knighthood).
 
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QueenMathilde said:
Can they remove an honor from a person who does something really bad or embarrassing?
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Yes there have been those who have had their orders revoked. At least from the Order of the Bath and from the RVO. Though I don't believe 'embarassing' qualifies. Anthony Blunt for example was stripped of his RVO when it came out he was a soviet spy.
 
QueenMathilde said:
Can they remove an honor from a person who does something really bad or embarrassing?
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Yes e.g. Rolf Harris had his CBE stripped when he was convicted https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31711252 He was also stripped of his Australian honours https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-23/rolf-harris-stripped-of-ao-by-governor-general/6218022

Convictions for serious criminal actions would be required - not just being an embarrassment or making poor choices in friends etc.
 
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