The Future of the British Monarchy 1: 2018 - 2022

[Claire]

The recent events will be tough on William and his family in the long run with two Senior royals of his Generation gone. Harry's Part supporting a King William, plus a wife of Harry who would have taken on the royal bread and Butter job will be very hard to replace.

There is no one else from their generation doing engagements. I would love to the York girls to be given the opportunity - however will it be fair in the long run if it is just until Charles becomes king or till the young Cambridge's are of age. At the moment it is a wait and see attitude - until we know what Harry and Meghan are willing to do - possibility until they know themselves - the question will remain unanswered.

 

[Denville]

There is no one else from their generation doing engagements. I would love to the York girls to be given the opportunity - however will it be fair in the long run if it is just until Charles becomes king or till the young Cambridge's are of age. At the moment it is a wait and see attitude - until we know what Harry and Meghan are willing to do - possibility until they know themselves - the question will remain unanswered.

If harry had let the RF know years ago that he couldn't do the job/didn't want to, they could have arranged something. Now its a lot more difficult to take on some relatives for the several years until George (anad maybe Charlotte) are old enough Esp when Harry had been givene the responsible Comonweatlh job.

 

[miss whirley]

I do agree that a couple of William's cousins will be utilized in the future. A year ago I didn't believe that. But with Andrew, Harry, and Meghan now all but officially out of the firm there isn't enough stop gap royals until the Cambridge children can take over. Once Anne turns 70 this year, there will be only four working royals under the age of 70 - Edward, Sophie, William and Catherine. And the Wessexs are both in their mid-50s.

Charles and William will have to sit down and discuss who might be the needed to step in. I'm not sure Beatrice and Eugenie are the best choice. The Yorks are rather tainted right now, and it doesn't help that both women are very close to their parents and let their mother tag along at their appearances. And both women have flirted a bit too much with the celebrity social set. After the Sussex mess I think there will be a lot of wariness about the now murky line between celebrities and royals.

Anne's children would be a better choice, even though they don't have titles. William is closer to them than he is to the Yorks. And since these cousins would be his support system in the firm we can't overstate the value of his trust. Zara might not be a viable option. She has her successful sporting career. But Peter could work and if Autumn was willing to join him, you'd get two firm members for the price of one. Meaning that you'd only need one residence for the couple (Frogmore? if the Sussexes totally transplant to N. America). Personally I think that's another big drawback for Beatrice and Eugenie. You would need to supply two royal residences for the two of them.

Peter has been a good support system for William. He was there in Balmoral comforting William when Diana died. And just recently he was in Sandringham when the Sussex "crisis" talks were taking place. He and Autumn both seem reliable and not flashy. A lot like the Wessexes, actually. And that's the kind of members they really need right now.

 

[Claire]

I actually below the Commonwealth job is the one they want to keep - travel, high profile and favorable press. But we are only speculating. We have no idea at the moment.

 

[Claire]

I
Anne's children would be a better choice, even though the don't have titles. QUOTE]

I don't think Anne's children will touch this with a stick. They have had many years outside of this nonsense - will they really be tempted.
But where does this leave us - with James and Louise? Too young. And Charles doesn't want them

I just find this whole situation ironic - The flaw of Charles' idea of a smaller monarchy is showing even before he becomes king. People that were sidelined are now going to be depended upon - Edward and Sophie , and possibly Beatrice and Eugenie. They might have to address the Andrew issue sooner then the public want.

Personally I don't think they will be anything - just less patronages and engagements for the overall family.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I don't see any point in wanting to change access to the HRH.
It marks a relationship to the sovereign by birth (or marriage) not necessarily that the person should work for the Queen.
However, I notice that most HRHs do carry out charity works because the British Royal Family are brought up to be helpful to the community.

 

[pkl]

Again, I really can't see the problem here. Do the BRF need to have so many engagements and patronages? In my opinion, they don't. In Norway, for instance (yes, a smaller country in population, but much bigger land), we only have the king and the queen, the crown prince and somethimes the crown princess for such things. Princess Astrid too, but not so much. Almost nothing from her. That's it. My point is, they are so few, but still soooo popular in Norway. Why can't the british monarchy just change like that? Is tradition all that matters?

 

[Osipi]

I do agree that a couple of William's cousins will be utilized in the future. A year ago I didn't believe that. But with Andrew, Harry, and Meghan now all but officially out of the firm there isn't enough stop gap royals until the Cambridge children can take over. Once Anne turns 70 this year, there will be only four working royals under the age of 70 - Edward, Sophie, William and Catherine. And the Wessexs are both in their mid-50s.

There has been noting said anywhere that indicates that any of the charities and patronages that Harry and Meghan have taken on for the "Firm" or handed down from the Queen will be bereft of their involvement. There will be no need to take on additional family members to take over these patronages. It, however, may indicate that the Sussexes are not going to take on gobs more from the "Firm" (Andrew's specifically) and focus more on their foundation.

Even if any of the cousins did step up and in to do royal work, the expenses incurred while doing them would be covered by the Queen through the Sovereign Grant as she does now for Anne, Edward and Sophie and her cousins and RPO security would be available for their royal duties only.

Remember too that how the Sovereign Grant works is related to a percentage of the profits that the Crown Estates accrue. It would be the same whether there were 5 working royals for the "Firm" or 50. ?

I don't predict much of a change actually. The Sussexes will continue on with the charities and patronages they've already taken on, remain HRH and start up their own Sussex Royal Foundation. The difference will be part time residency in Canada. How that's even going to work right now is up in the air and not clear.

They're not leaving the "Firm" or the family. They're streamlining things perhaps so that they can put more focus on their young family (which I do expect to grow) and who knows what else will be decided on.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Again, I really can't see the problem here. Do the BRF need to have so many engagements and patronages? In my opinion, they don't. In Norway, for instance (yes, a smaller country in population, but much bigger land), we only have the king and the queen, the crown prince and somethimes the crown princess for such things. Princess Astrid too, but not so much. Almost nothing from her. That's it. My point is, they are so few, but still soooo popular in Norway. Why can't the british monarchy just change like that? Is tradition all that matters?

Of course there is no need for that. Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Finland, Portugal, etc. all thrive well without a daughter or a niece or a grandson of the President cutting a ribbon here or laying a first stone there.

When in France a new hospital is opened, one can expect le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire, etc. bursting of pride and posing for the local newspaper. I don't think any Queen or Princess is missed here.

The case for a big "Royal Firm" is pretty wobbly.

 

[Lilyflo]

A very much slimmed down monarchy could work if the focus is more on the activities that they must do & less on the activities that they choose to do. I think the monarch is the only one with defined responsibilities so if you start from there as the core work & treat everything else as optional, it should be possible to cover that work with only the monarch, the Prince of Wales & their spouses.

 

[pkl]

Of course there is no need for that. Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Finland, Portugal, etc. all thrive well without a daughter or a niece or a grandson of the President cutting a ribbon here or laying a first stone there.

When in France a new hospital is opened, one can expect le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire, etc. bursting of pride and posing for the local newspaper. I don't think any Queen or Princess is missed here.

The case for a big "Royal Firm" is pretty wobbly.

Interesting that "le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire" sounds more prominent than "The duchess of Sussex"

 

[Claire]

yep- which is why the British will realize that and move to abolish. Celebrities can be hired and fired without much drama.

 

[Lilyflo]

yep- which is why the British will realize that and move to abolish. Celebrities can be hired and fired without much drama.

I doubt we'll abolish the monarchy but surveys have shown people are in favour of it being slimmed down. If Charles does OK as king, the institution will survive & popularity scores are likely to remain high for William & Catherine, particularly as they are in tune with current concerns of their generation eg mental health, the climate crisis, the environment...

 

[pkl]

How many people in the UK wants the monarchy? Have never read anything about polls about it. Is it over 80 per cent like in Norway?

 

[Mbruno]

Interesting that "le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire" sounds more prominent than "The duchess of Sussex"

The point of constitutional monarchy is precisely to separate ceremonial state functions from politicians like the “ ministre des solidarités et de lá santé”. I am pretty sure the Brits would rather have a son or grandson of the Queen cutting a ribbon than a partisan minister who would turn the event into political advertising for his /her party.

 

[Lilyflo]

How many people in the UK wants the monarchy? Have never read anything about polls about it. Is it over 80 per cent like in Norway?

Back in November, almost half of Brits (47%) "believe the way Prince Andrew has responded to the allegations has damaged the monarchy" from a YouGov survey
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...6-britons-believe-prince-andrews-account-his-

Last week, a YouGov survey showed some popularity drops but mainly for Harry & Meghan:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...lineimage/2020-01-13/Royals popularity-01.png

In May 2018, support for the monarchy as an institution was about 70%
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/05/18/who-are-monarchists

 

[Kataryn]

Of course there is no need for that. Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Finland, Portugal, etc. all thrive well without a daughter or a niece or a grandson of the President cutting a ribbon here or laying a first stone there.

When in France a new hospital is opened, one can expect le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire, etc. bursting of pride and posing for the local newspaper. I don't think any Queen or Princess is missed here.

The case for a big "Royal Firm" is pretty wobbly.

There are several charities in Germany who have a patron/president or "Schirmherr" (directly translated Umbrellaowner, the one who is responsible for the umbrella these organisations are protected by) who is a member of a former ruling House. Not only of the former Royal oder Grandducal/Ducal or Princely Houses but of lesser nobles if they still own the "manor" of their village or town. But that's only an effect because they do something for the community and as thus, they are asked to open new buildings etc.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

There are several charities in Germany who have a patron/president or "Schirmherr" (directly translated Umbrellaowner, the one who is responsible for the umbrella these organisations are protected by) who is a member of a former ruling House. Not only of the former Royal oder Grandducal/Ducal or Princely Houses but of lesser nobles if they still own the "manor" of their village or town. But that's only an effect because they do something for the community and as thus, they are asked to open new buildings etc.

Yes that is is in the Netherlands too. The local lord or lady to the manor born functioning as beschermheer or beschermvrouwe (patron or patroness) of the local marksmen guild, of the local church committee, of the local branch of the scouting or the local Red Cross. Not only nobles but prominent families. In Dutch they are called notabelen or prominenten. You see that in France or Italy as wel: the local who-is-who being guests of honour.

 

[_Heather_]

Anne's children would be a better choice, even though they don't have titles. William is closer to them than he is to the Yorks. And since these cousins would be his support system in the firm we can't overstate the value of his trust. Zara might not be a viable option. She has her successful sporting career. But Peter could work and if Autumn was willing to join him, you'd get two firm members for the price of one. Meaning that you'd only need one residence for the couple (Frogmore? if the Sussexes totally transplant to N. America). Personally I think that's another big drawback for Beatrice and Eugenie. You would need to supply two royal residences for the two of them.

Peter has been a good support system for William. He was there in Balmoral comforting William when Diana died. And just recently he was in Sandringham when the Sussex "crisis" talks were taking place. He and Autumn both seem reliable and not flashy. A lot like the Wessexes, actually. And that's the kind of members they really need right now.

I'm not opposed to the York girls stepping up and I think given their HRH's and the fact that they were raised entirely inside the Firm would make it relatively easy to do. However, I can't tell you how much I agree about Peter/Autumn and would love to see them step in. In fact, earlier on in the other thread I posted about how much of a support Peter is for William and how valuable I think his advice would be. I would love to see Zara step in but her career wouldn't allow for that, I don't think. As for Peter and Autumn, as much as I would love to see them step in and as fabulous as I believe they'd be, I don't see it as likely. For one, they have no title or style, not even as that of children of an Earl. In the grand scheme of things that doesn't really matter and could be changed but it would seem to the public to be a massive sign of discontinuity. For two, I don't believe they'd willingly do it. I do believe that they might agree to, on rare occasions, perform some duties and be duly reimbursed but I don't believe they'd agree to a full or even part-time royal schedule. I will not be surprised, however, if throughout the next few decades we see Peter acting as an unofficial adviser and counselor to William because he seems to be infinitely both stable and supportive and a sound head on his shoulders and good advice and appears to be one of the few people who might be able to tell William things he doesn't necessarily want to hear and make him listen.

 

[Lilyflo]

I expect I could find this info via google but somebody might have it in succinct form so I'll ask. What are the actual duties of the monarch - task by task? I'm trying to get a picture of the core essential work that must be done in order to judge whether it's possible to cover it with a King, Queen, heir & spouse. I'm thinking ahead to Charles' 'slimmed down monarchy' & how it could work. We're so used to the BRF doing all sorts of things that maybe we can't envisage how a smaller royal family could manage the workload but what is the actual, defined workload as opposed to what the monarch does voluntarily? So for example:

Essential activities for the monarch (or their reps) are:
* Opening of Parliament
* Weekly audience with the PM
* Awarding honours
* Entertaining visiting heads of state
* Making state visits to other countries on behalf of the FCO
* Garter Day
* Diplomatic reception
* Trooping the Colour
* Remembrance Services
* Head of Commonwealth duties
* The red boxes
* Receiving new foreign ambassadors
* Privy Council

Additional activities that aren't essential to the role of monarch (or their reps):
* Garden parties
* Patronages
* UK tours/visits
* Overseas tours/visits that aren't 'state visits'

Feel free to chip in...

 

[Somebody]

Interesting that "le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire" sounds more prominent than "The duchess of Sussex"

That's three different people; it's either/or. In Meghan's case, if she used all three of her titles: 'The Duchess of Sussex, Countess of Dumbarton, Baroness Kilkeel' it also sounds more impressive (and that's all for just one person).

 

[Lady Marlboro]

I would add receiving new foreign ambassadors (they present their credentials to the monarch in an audience) to the essentials list. In addition to entertaining visiting heads of state, there are also audiences or courtesy calls from heads of governments (prime ministers) who might be in the UK for talks with UK PM.

 

[Somebody]

Appointing members of government also seems one of the essential tasks.

 

[Lilyflo]

@Lady Marlboro
Thanks for the suggestions. I've added the foreign ambassadors & also I remembered of the Privy Council, which I've added.

@Somebody
Do you mean asking a party leader to form a government? The monarch does that but it only takes 10 minutes so I won't add it yet. The PM appoints government ministers so I'm not sure what part the monarch plays in it (if any). Could you elaborate or does anyone else have any info on that?

 

[Claire]

If Monday's African gala is anything to go on - it looks like the Wessex's and the Princess Royal will be moved forward. So essential Charles plan for the future has changed a bit. That must be a stone in Charles's shoe - just when he though the future was completed stitched up and final. So Team King Charles is now looking like - William, Kate, Edward, Sophie and Anne.

 

[Denville]

If Monday's African gala is anything to go on - it looks like the Wessex's and the Princess Royal will be moved forward. So essential Charles plan for the future has changed a bit. That must be a stone in Charles's shoe - just when he though the future was completed stitched up and final. So Team King Charles is now looking like - William, Kate, Edward, Sophie and Anne.

which is a pretty small team.

 

[Claire]

Well- as far as headcount goes it is the same number Charles wanted for a slimmed down monarchy.
Just a difference of Wessex from Sussex.

 

[Denville]

Well- as far as headcount goes it is the same number Charles wanted for a slimmed down monarchy.
Just a difference of Wessex from Sussex.

I think that Charles intended Anne and EDw and Sophie to continue with their work as long as they were able to do so.. and he expected the Cambs and the Sussexes to be full time royals and carrying the heaviest part of the burden as the older ones got older. Now he is losing 2 of the young ones...

 

[Erin9]

I think that Charles intended Anne and EDw and Sophie to continue with their work as long as they were able to do so.. and he expected the Cambs and the Sussexes to be full time royals and carrying the heaviest part of the burden as the older ones got older. Now he is losing 2 of the young ones...

Yes- that is exactly what I think he had planned.

Well- now that Harry and Meghan have been sorted out- more fun for the family as they look to what this loss means for them and how they will handle it short and long term. They must be exhausted.

 

[wyevale]

So Team King Charles is now looking like - William, Kate, Edward, Sophie and Anne.

You omitted the his Queen - Camilla