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  #1221  
Old 04-19-2021, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Unless there is a formal statement from the Palace I will not be lead astray by these anonymous sources or royal reporters who think they are psychic. Does anyone else think that there could not be a worse time to announce a so-call Way-Ahead redux? Good heavens, the Duke is barely cold in the grave and the media are stirring the pot. Contrary to the breathless reporting, HM the Queen is not yet lying beside her husband and it is and obscenity to treat her as if she does not even exist, that she has no say in what will be happening in her own home and family.

The state of the BRF has never been in more of a perceived shaky situation and the notion that Prince Charles is about to make instant changes, a la The Way Ahead mythical report that has never been released because it doesn't affect anyone but the BRF or more probably as time and situations change it was rendered irrelevant. Right now, we need to see our Royal Family united firmly behind HM and visibly supporting her.

If there is one thing that Charles needs to do is be ruthless in rooting out those Aides and Courtiers that are leaking like a sieve. If they had shut them before the Sussex situation got out of hand the may not look as hopelessly impotent as they do now, at the mercy of those who would shape the BRF the way they see it and not as the BRF want or would ever consider. Its time to shape up and ship out the dross not rearrange deckchairs on the Titanic.
If you read the Telegraph article, this is ALL to be done with the Queen’s approval. They are not going over her head, nor has such a Summit been scheduled yet. It’s not like it’s being held yesterday. I don’t see anything “breathless” about the reporting - this info didn’t come from a gossip rag. I don’t see how a meeting in which the future of the BRF is unwarranted or extreme. They DO have to figure out how they are going to deal with not enough working Royals for too many engagements/patronages
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  #1222  
Old 04-19-2021, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
i just dont see how the remaining number can do the same work...
They don't need to do the same work. They can cut it right down to fit the number of people they have.
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  #1223  
Old 04-19-2021, 08:27 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
They don't need to do the same work. They can cut it right down to fit the number of people they have.
but that will mean doing less. At present there are several people doing it.. and the Royals like the Kents, do a lot of the unglamorous, "vesting a provincial town" kind of work. If they are giving up gradually because they are older, more will fall on the core group, and now the core group has lost 3 people last year. So how can 5 or 6 people do the same stuff as a dozen people? What will probably go will be the "provincial hospitals" type engagements..
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  #1224  
Old 04-19-2021, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but that will mean doing less. At present there are several people doing it.. and the Royals like the Kents, do a lot of the unglamorous, "vesting a provincial town" kind of work. If they are giving up gradually because they are older, more will fall on the core group, and now the core group has lost 3 people last year. So how can 5 or 6 people do the same stuff as a dozen people? What will probably go will be the "provincial hospitals" type engagements..
This is why I said earlier that they need to ask what the purpose of monarchy is in the 21st Century. What benefit do 'ordinary' people see from a relatively unknown Duchess visiting their local hospital? More beds? More staff? Shorter waiting lists?
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  #1225  
Old 04-19-2021, 08:38 AM
Gentry
 
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"And now, the public just does not want to support RFs with 15 members doing engagements.. "

There are 12 working royals as of today, 8 of whom are 70 or over. Of the remaining 4, 2 are in their mid-50s and two are 39.

In 20 years time, when George, at 27, may or may not be a full time royal, even in a best case, long-lived scenario, the Queen, the Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra will be gone, leaving 9.

The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, will be in their mid-90s, Charles and Camilla and Anne will be in their early 90s, leaving Edward and Sophie in their 70s and William and Kate at 60 to bear the brunt of the work.

Even in 10 years time, with the Queen gone, the two Kents unlikely to still be doing more than a few engagements, if any, and the others in their eighties,
it will still fall to Edward and Sophie in their mid-60s and William and Kate at 50 to be front and centre.

Charles can do the maths too. How much slimming down do the media think he can do? And, no, as we say periodically, there has never been an official
statement that he wants to slim down the monarchy.
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  #1226  
Old 04-19-2021, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
This is why I said earlier that they need to ask what the purpose of monarchy is in the 21st Century. What benefit do 'ordinary' people see from a relatively unknown Duchess visiting their local hospital? More beds? More staff? Shorter waiting lists?
Acknowledgement? It makes people happy to see the work that they do is appreciated; to have a column in the local newspaper report on the visit or even a couple of minutes on the local TV news. Don't underestimate the feel good factor.
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  #1227  
Old 04-19-2021, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
This is why I said earlier that they need to ask what the purpose of monarchy is in the 21st Century. What benefit do 'ordinary' people see from a relatively unknown Duchess visiting their local hospital? More beds? More staff? Shorter waiting lists?
As other posters have said, many people do like to seeing royals doing the small scale visiting a hospital kind of work. Of course they dont think that a Duchess visiting will make any practical difference to their lives.. but it can give a morale boost to staff and to people in need. if people do want it, I am sure the RF will try ot keep on doing some..but iwth smaller numbers, its going to be a lot more dififcult...
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  #1228  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by janet14 View Post
Acknowledgement? It makes people happy to see the work that they do is appreciated; to have a column in the local newspaper report on the visit or even a couple of minutes on the local TV news. Don't underestimate the feel good factor.
I don't but I don't overestimate it either. We see the smiling faces & the excited people who enjoy that kind of thing but the sky won't fall in if it doesn't happen. It's a rare event anyway for a royal to visit your school/hospital/factory so most people don't experience it in their lifetime. The absence of something they don't expect to happen isn't such a big deal as some might imagine it is.
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  #1229  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
It was the future king and not the papers or politicians who told the public that his wife would not be his queen.
Camilla will be Queen Camilla. She is not a Princess, so if they want her to be "Princess Consort", they would first have to create her a Princess in her own rights. But as a Queen she is just a consort to the King.
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  #1230  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:29 AM
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All other European royal families have managed to adapt their workload to the number of people they need to do the job properly and I'm certain that the Windsors will be able to do the same without to many problems.
The biggest difference to me lies in that the continental monarchies are some decades ahead of their Windsor cousins when it comes to streamlining their respective organisations. The reasons behind this are probably many but I'd say that the long reign of the Queen (the reform of the European monarchies and their courts have in general started when a new monarch ascends the throne either at their own instigation or because of political decisions/public pressure) and the needs of the Commonwealth and the Empire plays a big role in this.
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  #1231  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I don't but I don't overestimate it either. We see the smiling faces & the excited people who enjoy that kind of thing but the sky won't fall in if it doesn't happen. It's a rare event anyway for a royal to visit your school/hospital/factory so most people don't experience it in their lifetime. The absence of something they don't expect to happen isn't such a big deal as some might imagine it is.
if that is the case, then the RF can manage fine with about 4 or 5 people.. so Charles, Camilla, flanked by Will and kate, will do the job Ok.... no need for anyone else
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  #1232  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Fijiro View Post
Camilla will be Queen Camilla. She is not a Princess, so if they want her to be "Princess Consort", they would first have to create her a Princess in her own rights. But as a Queen she is just a consort to the King.
She is a Princess, she is HRH THe Princess of Wales.. and a Princess by virtue of her marraige to Charles, who is a Prince.
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  #1233  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The UK monarchy has one thing that the other European monarchies don't have - more realms. The Queen is not only the Queen of the UK but of 15 other realms. Sure that number will drop over time no doubt but still the monarch is monarch of 16 countries.

They are also head of the Commonwealth - a huge group of nations representing about one-third of the world's population.

To keep the Commonwealth together it is important that they are visited by royals from time to time. Can the monarch and heir and their spouses do that?
The Head of the Commonwealth of Nations does not have to be a British Monarchy, and it is not hereditary. The 54 Nations have equal rights and can vote to pick another Head. That is why the Queen, at the last meeting, campaigned for Prince Charles to be voted as the next Head of the Commonwealth of Nations. After Prince Charles, who knows what direction the 54 Countries that form the Commonwealth of Nations will go to elect their next Head.
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  #1234  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:44 AM
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Very interesting discussion. I agree with many that the current appearances by some of the less glamorous members are often unnoticed despite highlighting important events and causes. I don't think paring those appearances down will have any major impact on the perception of the royal family.

With respect on whether Charles and William are actually thinking about reducing the number of royals, I think there was a public confirmation when Meghan and Harry expressed concern about Archie's prospective title. On that issue, I don't think there will be much outrage, even in the United States, if Harry's children are not HRHs when they are being raised in the United States.

Over the next twenty years, fewer members of the family will effectively be able to represent the government on oversees trips, meet with foreign dignitaries, and promote important causes, (mental health, homelessness, etc) rather than specific charities. The royal family can also continue to be the unifying focus for the nation. With respect to funding, the family naturally will want to have as much money as possible but I think that the sovereign grant will inevitably be reduced.

At the same time, Charles will want to give William as much flexibility as possible. Things could change drastically in the next 20 years. There may be a major movement to abolish the monarchy but there may also be a groundswell of public support and more interest in the royal family.
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  #1235  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:48 AM
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The single biggest problem in comparing the continental monarchies to the UK is the population differences. Spain is probably the next biggest country in population to the UK but they are still much smaller than the UK. It is ridiculous to think that a country with the population of Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, or the Netherlands needs as many working royals as a country with the population the size of the UK.
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  #1236  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sunnystar View Post
The single biggest problem in comparing the continental monarchies to the UK is the population differences. Spain is probably the next biggest country in population to the UK but they are still much smaller than the UK. It is ridiculous to think that a country with the population of Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, or the Netherlands needs as many working royals as a country with the population the size of the UK.
True, but there are also the connections with many other countries, that have been around for a long time and that the BRF clearly feels they want to maintain if possible. AND there's the fact that for a long time, the BRF was large and had a lot of royals involved in charities -.. and they may genuinely feel that its not fair to drop them abruptly. Over time, Im sure that when C is king he will take steps to slim down the number of charities they patronise and find other ways to engage with people.. but the point is OVER TIME. the disgrace of Andy in November 2019 and the departure of Meg and Harry a month later.. meant that they lost 3 of their younger workers, who were meant to continue the RF's work into the next reign, all at once.. and Charles hasn't had time to decide how best to move forward...
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  #1237  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sunnystar View Post
The single biggest problem in comparing the continental monarchies to the UK is the population differences. Spain is probably the next biggest country in population to the UK but they are still much smaller than the UK. It is ridiculous to think that a country with the population of Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, or the Netherlands needs as many working royals as a country with the population the size of the UK.
That's true and that is why I wrote "the number of people they need to do the job properly". Different countries have different needs but most of the European monarchies seems to do just fine with in between 2-4 full time royals and with the support of some part time royals. That they've crunched the numbers to this level is both because of political decisions, because of the number of people they have available and most often a combination of the two. The UK will probably be needing a few more heads than this to be able to keep things going if they want to keep on working in the way they do now.
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  #1238  
Old 04-19-2021, 10:09 AM
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[QUOTE=Fijiro]
Camilla will be Queen Camilla. She is not a Princess, so if they want her to be "Princess Consort", they would first have to create her a Princess in her own rights. But as a Queen she is just a consort to the King.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
She is a Princess, she is HRH THe Princess of Wales.. and a Princess by virtue of her marraige to Charles, who is a Prince.
Yes she is now a Princess by being married to Prince Charles, when Charles becomes King, he will no longer be a Prince, but a King. So then Camilla will no longer be a Princess, but a Queen. So to make her a Princess Consort, they would have to create her a Princes in her own rights.
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  #1239  
Old 04-19-2021, 10:13 AM
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Yes I think that Princess consort was a bad idea.. but they may stick iwth it. I dont think that anyone wil ojbect if its declared that she wants to be known as Princess Consort, even if it is not her official title.
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  #1240  
Old 04-19-2021, 10:13 AM
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if that is the case, then the RF can manage fine with about 4 or 5 people.. so Charles, Camilla, flanked by Will and kate, will do the job Ok.... no need for anyone else
No there isn't but while Anne, Edward & Sophie are still working, it seems sensible to keep them on board and have a gradual paring down of royal engagements to fit the diminishing numbers. Princess Anne in particular has proven herself to be reliable, hard-working and committed to serving the country more than herself so people respect her and there are rarely any public grumbles about funding her staff or security.
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