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  #1161  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:09 PM
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As the thread about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex nor the one on the Funeral seem to be the right place to discuss the future of the British monarchy (and to avoid discussing it in different threads; although I am now starting a third one), I thought it might be better to respond here.

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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
You’re welcome ! They are, and it’s profoundly moving to see.

Interesting article in the Telegraph ...I suppose it was to be expected, but there will be a summit - led by Charles and William - to determine the future of the Monarchy.

Quote:
Royal insiders say that the two matters cannot be decided in isolation, as the issues of patronage and personnel are inextricably linked.

Because any decisions made now will have repercussions for decades to come, the Prince of Wales will take a leading role in the talks. He has made it clear that the Duke of Cambridge, his own heir, should be involved at every stage because any major decisions taken by 72-year-old Prince Charles will last into Prince William’s reign.

....

Royal sources explained that the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge, with the help of the Queen, would now have to decide whether the monarchy should continue with its traditional model of thousands of engagements each year, spread out between a broad base of full-time and part-time working royals, or cut down the number of engagements and patronages and use fewer members of the family to fulfil them.

One source said: “The question is whether you start off by deciding how many patronages and engagements there should be, and then work out how many people are needed to achieve them, or whether you decide how many people there should be, which will dictate how many engagements and patronages they can take on.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-fa...harles-prince/
That final paragraph is really the main issue: what angle will you be taken? Do you look into what is done and adjust the number of 'active' royals to that or do you start looking from the number of royals you will have available and adjust the workload.

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Originally Posted by Sionevar View Post
The Daily Mail is now reporting that Prince Charles and Prince William will hold a summit within the next few weeks to decide the royal family's future, including who will have an official role.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ys-future.html

It will be interesting to see if this summit impacts Harry and Meghan's status in any way. I wouldn't expect so, but never say never...
I don't expect their status to be impacted either. I am sure the decisions taken over the last year were made with heavy involvement from Charles and William. I'd say they take the current situation (which excludes Harry and Meghan by their own choice) as a given and work out a plan from there.

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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
My first gut reaction was that the summit will discuss a rumor we've all been hearing for so long that it's now of legal drinking age. The "slimming down of the monarchy" rumor.

This summit may also see the changes made to limiting the HRH prince/ss to the direct line of succession in the future meaning that Harry and Meghan's children will not be eligible when Charles becomes king. The Sussex children really don't *need* the HRH prince/ss as they'll be living primarily in the USA and have American citizenship.

As far as working engagements, I think we'll see that with a slimmed down monarchy that there'll be more and more charities and patronages covered by an "umbrella" like The Royal Foundation and The Prince's Trust.

Basically, though, I see it as the resurrection of the Way Ahead group from the 1990s.
It indeed seems like a new Way Ahead group; and given all that has transpired over the last year and a half, it makes sense to go back to the drawing board and work through different scenarios. I am sure that while Charles and William are taking the lead, Catherine's views (on especially the role of their children) will be taken into account as well.
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  #1162  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:20 PM
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I think that's all there was to it. There wasn't enough room to walk three abreast inside the chapel, especially as no-one's supposed to be getting too close because of Covid restrictions.


The Telegraph article makes the very good point that Philip's patronages and other roles will now have to be redistributed. There's also the issue of what the Queen will and won't want to do, going forward. I don't think this is about Harry and Meghan - but, with them out of the picture, Andrew effectively out of the picture, Princess Alexandra pretty much being retired, and Prince Philip now sadly gone, it's all getting quite difficult. It's all very well for the press to say that having a royal patron doesn't make that much difference to an organisation, but how do you ring them up and say, sorry, we haven't got room for you any more?
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  #1163  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sionevar View Post
The Daily Mail is now reporting that Prince Charles and Prince William will hold a summit within the next few weeks to decide the royal family's future, including who will have an official role.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ys-future.html

It will be interesting to see if this summit impacts Harry and Meghan's status in any way. I wouldn't expect so, but never say never...
Part of me thinks this is futile. Several scenarios come to mind:

-What if the Queen outlives Charles? Then it is back to the drawing board.
-What if one of the Cambridge kids wants a private life and opt not to have titles for their children a la Princess Anne?
- Will the York Princesses be allowed to step up and into an official role?
-We' ve seen a bit more than usual of Lady Louise Windsor over the last few days. Will she be stepping into an official role despite growing up largely expected to live a private life?

Lots of questions and possible scenarios, lots of unknowns that is dependent on time and circumstances.
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  #1164  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:41 PM
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As for the Sussexes becoming part-time royals in the future, I doubt it. They've proved this year that what they want to do, speaking out on politics, signing $100m contracts among other things aren't compatible with being a working royal. If they had jobs that were like Bea and Eugenie then maybe it would be possible. But how can you be sure a royal tour won't end up being made into a for-profit documentary for Netflix ala Invictus now is? Even if they say they won't or they're donating the money to charity.

Not to mention that how can his family/The Firm trust that they won't find themselves "trapped" and "not supported" again if they get told "no" and "have to" run off to do an updated interview?

I might be wrong but nothing over the last year has shown anyone part-time is a reasonable way forward.

I'm not sure Royal Patronages could go under the Prince's Trust since that's a specific organisation in its own right. They might eventually do as WA did in the Netherlands and drop all but a few but for now I think they'll divide them up.

I don't think they'll make any specific announcements about the future reign of Charles III or whatever his name might be, including titles for the Sussex kids whilst his mother is still reigning and hopefully will do so for a few more years yet. More like "how do we handle being down three members and HM passing more and more of the day to day work" with a "Way Ahead" look privately.

I think they'll leave the HRH issue because of the drama surrounding the false security and racism accusations and let that die down.
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  #1165  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I think they'll leave the HRH issue because of the drama surrounding the false security and racism accusations and let that die down.
I honestly believe that whatever is discussed or whatever plans are agreed on to be put in place will never reach the public domain at all.
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  #1166  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:51 PM
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The Funeral of HRH The Duke of Edinburgh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The Way Ahead Group: The Sequel



This absolutely sounds like something Philip would have advised Charles to do. Sit down and hash out how things will go in the future and plan for every contingency.


Yes, it sounds like something Philip would have advised.

I do think it’s worth looking at half in/half out. I don’t think the Sussex way is likely ever do-able, but I think many other jobs could work.
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  #1167  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:02 PM
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If this report is correct I believe that first of all will come decisions over the literally hundreds of patronages and charities connected to Prince Philip, including military ones. The Queen is 95 and her patronage?s/charities also number in the hundreds.

The future of all these has to be taken into account. IMO most of them will be shed, leaving only the most important ones under some sort of umbrella Foundation. I believe this would have happened even if Andrew and the Sussexes had still been working royals. The younger members of the family just can?t and won?t take on hundreds of mainly minor charities any more. Andrew’s remaining charities and Patronages including military ones can’t be kept in abeyance for ever either.

If this discussion does indeed encompass the two reigns then there will no doubt IMO be discussions about who will be fulltime working royals in say another thirty years. Princess Anne, the Queen?s cousins, even the Wessexes might no longer be around. I believe the question of royal ?spares? will be discussed, and that will impact Charlotte and Louis. I believe and think that they will be given the option when they are in their teens of future careers in the outside world.

This will be because, (and this is directly due to what has happened with the Sussexes leaving and Andrew being dropped,) that a sleeker leaner BRF is what will be proposed. It may even be cut to the bone in William?s reign with just the King, Consort, heir and wife. That is in line with many Continental monarchies, and the titles of spares will also change as well. Jmo.

Just to finish off, I can see the titles of the children of male indirect heirs going, so no more Princesses Beatrices and Princess Eugenies. Spares will in the future, I believe, be encouraged to take up life long careers, and the children of Louis and subsequent spares will not be titled.

I can?t see Charles adding anyone to the payroll as working royals, as the charities become severely culled. There won?t be any need for it and Princess Anne, the Wessexes and the Gloucesters will continue as working royals for the forseeable future.

Eugenie has husband, baby and full time job. Beatrice will likely be starting a family soon. Both have their own charities. Why would either want to be full time royals with all the constraints the role entails? Nor do I think the Wessex children will have anything other than full time careers.

Forgot to add that Andrew?s charities and patronages are probably going to be reassigned/dropped in the next few months. His military patronages like the Grenadier Guards hon Colonelcy will probably go to a retired senior officer of their own.

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  #1168  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Part of me thinks this is futile. Several scenarios come to mind:

-What if the Queen outlives Charles? Then it is back to the drawing board.
-What if one of the Cambridge kids wants a private life and opt not to have titles for their children a la Princess Anne?
- Will the York Princesses be allowed to step up and into an official role?
-We' ve seen a bit more than usual of Lady Louise Windsor over the last few days. Will she be stepping into an official role despite growing up largely expected to live a private life?

Lots of questions and possible scenarios, lots of unknowns that is dependent on time and circumstances.
I'm sure scenario one has been discussed no matter how unlikely it is. Especially when Charles got Covid.

I don't think any of the Cambridge kids children beyond George's children will be offered titles. And I rather suspect that they, Charlotte and Louis, will have rather limited roles.

Beatrice and Eugenie are private and are likely to remain so as will Louise. If anyone is going to step up it is going to be Edward and Sophie. I have no doubt that's why we've seen more of them during Covid. I REALLY think they're going to take over the Harry and Meghan role for the foreseeable future. Where the family goes when George et all are older remains to be seen. But I don't think they'll expect all the Chambridge children to be working royals their entire lives.

Of course you can't plan for every scenario but the royal family has been doing this for centuries so you can bet they've planned for a lot of them, including Charles and William dying prior to Elizabeth and George being crowned the next monarch or even George dying and Charlotte becoming Queen after her great-grandmother. It would be nuts but I bet someone, somewhere has planned for it just in case.

The meeting they're currently having, however is likely planning for the most likely scenarios which include Charles becoming the next king and Harry not ever being part of the working family again. It's also going to look ahead to what to do in regards to William's children so something like the current situation doesn't happen again. Perhaps if you raise the children to know they'll never be working royals they'll be better adjusted as Louise and James seem to be.
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  #1169  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I honestly believe that whatever is discussed or whatever plans are agreed on to be put in place will never reach the public domain at all.
You are right, there will just be slight changes as we go along. No big announcements.
Although with Philip having 800 patronages they might have to do something about that.
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  #1170  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
You are right, there will just be slight changes as we go along. No big announcements.
Although with Philip having 800 patronages they might have to do something about that.
Didn't they do something about some of them when he retired? I think they reassigned some of them to other members of the RF. Surely this isn't the first time they realize that there are 800 for which something must be done?
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  #1171  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I honestly believe that whatever is discussed or whatever plans are agreed on to be put in place will never reach the public domain at all.
Possibly. And I hope you’re right. But I genuinely believe that whether they do or not depends on who is allowed to have the information. After the jealousy, the bitterness, and the spite that the interview train wreck showed, I honestly believe that if Harry and Meghan are privy to the information, and especially if they’re not happy about it, it will be on Gayle King’s morning show posthaste or in the worst case scenario there will be an updated whine-fest with Oprah.
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  #1172  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
Didn't they do something about some of them when he retired? I think they reassigned some of them to other members of the RF. Surely this isn't the first time they realize that there are 800 for which something must be done?
No I am sure they know, but I don't think they allocated all of them it was the more high profile ones they transferred over.
The point I was trying to make is that there is no way a slimmed down monarchy can swallow up a huge number of patronages, while down on numbers.
The older royals who still do a few engagements will slowly wind down, plus Harry, Meghan and Andrew all out.
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  #1173  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Possibly. And I hope you’re right. But I genuinely believe that whether they do or not depends on who is allowed to have the information. After the jealousy, the bitterness, and the spite that the interview train wreck showed, I honestly believe that if Harry and Meghan are privy to the information, and especially if they’re not happy about it, it will be on Gayle King’s morning show posthaste or in the worst case scenario there will be an updated whine-fest with Oprah.
There is absolutely no reason for Harry and Meghan to be included in or even informed of anything that happens behind closed doors of this summit. This is "Firm" business and Harry and Meghan have closed the door on their involvement with it. They'll be privy to as much information that we, the public are. In other words, zilch.
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  #1174  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellydofc View Post
I'm sure scenario one has been discussed no matter how unlikely it is. Especially when Charles got Covid.

I don't think any of the Cambridge kids children beyond George's children will be offered titles. And I rather suspect that they, Charlotte and Louis, will have rather limited roles.
Why would their roles need to be reduced only because Harry and Meghan had no sense of duty and wanted out? I would hope they will have the opportunity to support their brother George and not leave him to fend for himself (unless all three of them in consultation with their parents decide that would be best for all involved).
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  #1175  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:25 PM
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Note that if Prince Louis (or any other person) is granted a dukedom or other peerage, his legitimate children will have the right to use the appropriate courtesy titles of children of a peer, even if they are not given any royal titles.
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  #1176  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
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Why would their roles need to be reduced only because Harry and Meghan had no sense of duty and wanted out? I would hope they will have the opportunity to support their brother George and not leave him to fend for himself (unless all three of them in consultation with their parents decide that would be best for all involved).
I don't think Charlotte and Louis having a limited role would be about Harry but about the overall trend of smaller monarchies. I think that's probably where it was going anyway.
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  #1177  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
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There is absolutely no reason for Harry and Meghan to be included in or even informed of anything that happens behind closed doors of this summit. This is "Firm" business and Harry and Meghan have closed the door on their involvement with it. They'll be privy to as much information that we, the public are. In other words, zilch.
For some information yes, you’re absolutely right. For others, including a slim down and restriction in who gets the HRH, they’ll have to be informed. There may be others things that would require them to be informed, too. I’m not sure what would be included and discussed in such a summit but I’d be almost certain that at least some of it will have to be communicated to them and I’d venture to guess that it’ll be information they won’t be happy about. I expect we’ll then get their take on it and they’ll again “have their say” to let us all know if they’re blaming decisions they’re unhappy with on racism, retaliation, jealousy, or some other ridiculousness.
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  #1178  
Old 04-18-2021, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The Way Ahead Group: The Sequel

This absolutely sounds like something Philip would have advised Charles to do. Sit down and hash out how things will go in the future and plan for every contingency.
What was the Way Ahead group?

It could have been, no doubt. Charles has a heavy burden on his shoulders, but I know he’s up to he challenge, and I believe his father felt that way, also. I like that William has been involved all along, in last year’s Summit, and now this. He’s got to keep this family together, and he will - they all came up aces in response to COVID.
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  #1179  
Old 04-18-2021, 08:09 PM
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so who is briefing the press and the public about all this Monarchy restructuring.

/
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  #1180  
Old 04-18-2021, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Well a few front pages are claiming Harry, William and Charles met up for almost 2 hours today (yesterday?). And according to the Telegraph there will be a summit held soon to discuss if “part time royals” can happen in the future.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-fa...harles-prince/

So maybe what Harry wanted for himself might be possible for Louis, Charlotte, etc when they come of age.
I posted the Telegraph article in the funeral thread ...I must somehow have missed the part about there being potentially “part time Royals”. Even though I will always believe that HM, William and Charles handled it just fine, I like that they are flexible enough to discuss the matter. No one wants unhappy children/nieces/nephews/cousins,

I didn’t see anything about Charles, William and Harry meeting today/yesterday, just that C and H were possibly going to walk by the floral tributes to Philip. If they all met, that would be wonderful
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