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  #801  
Old 08-07-2020, 03:43 PM
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If the Windsors insist on maintaining the same workload they have now and if they refuse to bring in Beatrice and Eugenie even on part time basis then they will have to start giving George royal engagements as soon as he graduates from university. Of course he will go through military training like his dad but he can do royal work on his breaks from training. Unfortunately George will not have the luxury William got being part time royal and part time air ambulance pilot. For the younger siblings they can look to what the Bernadottes are doing. Only pay them per engagement that they take on they can also do this for the york girls..No i do not think Charlottes husband would be needed as full time working royal. Both husbands of the current princess royal did not become working royals her Current husband may take on some royal engagements but thats it. And about the Commonwealth. Well what about it? it's not like they are touring the commonwealth every year. But here is an idea to satisfy the commonwealth when george graduates university why dont they send him to tour the commonwealth himself....
For Future grandchildren of William. Charlottes kids should be like princess anne kids and louis kids should be like the wessex kids.
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  #802  
Old 08-08-2020, 04:29 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by KellyAtLast View Post
If the Windsors insist on maintaining the same workload they have now and if they refuse to bring in Beatrice and Eugenie even on part time basis then they will have to start giving George royal engagements as soon as he graduates from university. Of course he will go through military training like his dad but he can do royal work on his breaks from training. Unfortunately George will not have the luxury William got being part time royal and part time air ambulance pilot. For the younger siblings they can look to what the Bernadottes are doing. Only pay them per engagement that they take on they can also do this for the york girls..No i do not think Charlottes husband would be needed as full time working royal. Both husbands of the current princess royal did not become working royals her Current husband may take on some royal engagements but thats it. And about the Commonwealth. Well what about it? it's not like they are touring the commonwealth every year. But here is an idea to satisfy the commonwealth when george graduates university why dont they send him to tour the commonwealth himself....
For Future grandchildren of William. Charlottes kids should be like princess anne kids and louis kids should be like the wessex kids.
they're not going to use Bea and Eugenie. They may help out a bit on an "as needed" basis, but they're not that popular - and using them would not go down well.. and Charles IMO just isn't going to do it. He will accept that the RF have to do less charity work, and possibly in time the Commonwealth side of the job will be slimmed down too..
THe essential work is doable by a small number of people. The large set of charities was something that built up over teh 20th Century and isn't sustainable now.
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  #803  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:34 AM
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I agree that the York Princesses do not appear to be widely popular but that is easily resolved by having them out and about meeting people and doing charity work, and promotion from the Palace. The two Princesses have suffered because of their parents and I do think there is a degree of sympathy for them from the public. Both Princesses do seem to have an appreciation for their position and a sense of duty, rather than entitlement that comes with it. They are Princesses of the Blood and HRH's, so in my view should be working Royals. Popularity is easily leveraged. To maintain the reach, proximity and prestige of the Royal Family a larger team is necessary.
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  #804  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I agree that the York Princesses do not appear to be widely popular but that is easily resolved by having them out and about meeting people and doing charity work, and promotion from the Palace. The two Princesses have suffered because of their parents and I do think there is a degree of sympathy for them from the public. Both Princesses do seem to have an appreciation for their position and a sense of duty, rather than entitlement that comes with it. They are Princesses of the Blood and HRH's, so in my view should be working Royals. Popularity is easily leveraged. To maintain the reach, proximity and prestige of the Royal Family a larger team is necessary.
I dont think that the RF or at least Charles would agree, and he's the one who will be in charge in the near future. And the British public, who pay the piper, dont want a large team any more.
I doubt also if Bea and Eugenie want to do royal duties or woudl be liked all that much if they did. By all accounts they are not keen on "being princesses" and want to lead a normal life. If you are saying that they should be working royals because of their rank, then so should Edwards children. Even if their parents didn't want them to have HRH or the rank of Prince/ess, they are grandchildren of the monarch.... and theoretically should be HRH.
I don't think it is going ot happen. They may pick up a little mre charity work, but both of them have jobs and are at an age where they will probably want to have children, so they will hardly want to take on more work...
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  #805  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:57 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Of course any decision is up to the future King Charles and his advisors. I haven't seen any polls stating that the British public want a slimmed down Monarchy, in fact I think the British public rather like the pomp and circumstance that the Monarchy can switch on. I don't think there is a desire for some sort of watered down, bicycling Monarchy a la Dutch. The British public can be grudging, and fickle at times but I really do believe that Monarchy is a reminder of the one time grandeur and status of the nation that the public actually need and like. As we move towards Brexit such assets will become even more important to project Britain on the world stage.
The Wessex situation is different to the Yorks. An expectation was set after their parents marriage that they would not be HRH's and would to all intent and purposes live a private life.
Let's see what happens. A part of me thinks that the relegation of the York Princesses has more to do with a poor relationship between Charles and Andrew and the Princesses are collateral victims.
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  #806  
Old 08-08-2020, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by KellyAtLast View Post
If the Windsors insist on maintaining the same workload they have now and if they refuse to bring in Beatrice and Eugenie even on part time basis then they will have to start giving George royal engagements as soon as he graduates from university. [...] For the younger siblings they can look to what the Bernadottes are doing. Only pay them per engagement that they take on they can also do this for the york girls..No i do not think Charlottes husband would be needed as full time working royal. Both husbands of the current princess royal did not become working royals her Current husband may take on some royal engagements but thats it.
Both wives of her younger brothers did become working royals. I am not expecting the Windsors to insist on maintaining the same official workload they have now, but should they insist on it (while continuing to exclude the York sisters) then I suppose all three Cambridge children and their spouses would eventually be needed.
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  #807  
Old 08-08-2020, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I really do believe that Monarchy is a reminder of the one time grandeur and status of the nation that the public actually need and like.
Some of the public might like that reminder but not everyone does because a lot of that grandeur and status was gained by means that are shameful eg slavery, piracy, imperialism, racism, theft and buckets of bloodshed. The monarchy is also a reminder of entrenched privilege, deference and immense wealth, which isn't to everyone's taste either.

I'm a monarchist despite all of the above but I know many people who aren't and others who just tolerate them because the idea of President (insert your own dismal politician) is worse.

Charles and his advisers have their ear to the ground and they'll do whatever it takes to remain relevant and if that involves slimming down the working family, he won't hesitate (and neither will William).
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  #808  
Old 08-08-2020, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Some of the public might like that reminder but not everyone does because a lot of that grandeur and status was gained by means that are shameful eg slavery, piracy, imperialism, racism, theft and buckets of bloodshed. The monarchy is also a reminder of entrenched privilege, deference and immense wealth, which isn't to everyone's taste either.

I'm a monarchist despite all of the above but I know many people who aren't and others who just tolerate them because the idea of President (insert your own dismal politician) is worse.

Charles and his advisers have their ear to the ground and they'll do whatever it takes to remain relevant and if that involves slimming down the working family, he won't hesitate (and neither will William).
There isn't the same wish for the monarchy's ceremonials as there used to be. I don't think it has much to do with slavery etc., simply that people just aren't that interested in the same way. A royal wedding used to elicit grumbles about the cost but people still enjoyed it. Now, even the second son of the future King has married at Windsor...
Few people wanted to see Eugenie's wedding and I got the feeling that the people who got really really excited about Beas wedding.. or Archie's birth and so on, are non Brits.
Charles is concerned about costs, very rightly and he will do what's necessary to keep the monarchy working well and with the costs under control.
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  #809  
Old 08-08-2020, 07:35 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
There isn't the same wish for the monarchy's ceremonials as there used to be. I don't think it has much to do with slavery etc., simply that people just aren't that interested in the same way. A royal wedding used to elicit grumbles about the cost but people still enjoyed it. Now, even the second son of the future King has married at Windsor...
Few people wanted to see Eugenie's wedding and I got the feeling that the people who got really really excited about Beas wedding.. or Archie's birth and so on, are non Brits.
Charles is concerned about costs, very rightly and he will do what's necessary to keep the monarchy working well and with the costs under control.
If you think about it, prior to the 20th century, royal weddings were private events, weren't they? I guess it was the introduction of film and television that changed things, so in a way we may be back to how things used to be in that respect.

The court ceremonial has already been greatly slimmed down under Elizabeth II. The white-tie opera nights or the coming out ceremonies for daughters of the aristocracy at the Palace are long gone. In fact, there are now no more than two or three white-tie events per year in the British court. Even the state opening of Parliament has been toned down in recent years citing particular circumstances as excuses, but I suspect that will end up being permanent in the next reign.

Things that I believe will be kept are the solemn ceremonies/services associated with the orders of knighthood (like Garter Day) and national or Commonwealth religious services in general, and the official celebration of the monarch's birthday (Trooping).
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  #810  
Old 08-08-2020, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If you think about it, prior to the 20th century, royal weddings were private events, weren't they? I guess it was the introduction of film and television that changed things, so in a way we may be back to how things used to be in that respect.

The court ceremonial has already been greatly slimmed down under Elizabeth II. The white-tie opera nights or the coming out ceremonies for daughters of the aristocracy at the Palace are long gone. In fact, there are now no more than two or three white-tie events per year in the British court. Even the state opening of Parliament has been toned down in recent years citing particular circumstances as excuses, but I suspect that will end up being permanent in next reign.

Things that I believe will be kept are the solemn ceremonies/services associated with the orders of knighthood (like Garter Day) and national or Commonwealth religious services in general, and the official celebration of the monarch's birthday (Trooping).
Yes most ceremonial occasions have been slimmed down, and I don't think that will change. But I think that for some time royal weddings were something that thte public enjoyed even if they were not interested in the RF most of the time. IN the past few years, the enthusiasm for them has faded and tehy will revert to being private affairs, except for the heir or oldest daughter...
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  #811  
Old 08-08-2020, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
There isn't the same wish for the monarchy's ceremonials as there used to be. I don't think it has much to do with slavery etc., simply that people just aren't that interested in the same way.
Please don't put 2+2 together & make 5 because I didn't say the above. I did not say that a reduced wish for the monarchy's ceremonials is related to slavery etc.

My comment was in response to Darius (which I quoted to be clear) and was about people liking a reminder of our previous "grandeur and status" and I'm saying that reminder isn't what everyone wants. People support having a monarchy for a range of reasons.
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  #812  
Old 08-08-2020, 08:43 AM
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The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall provide a good chunk of the funding for the activities of the British Royal Family. If the BRF is slimmed down it means that the respective Dukes have more money to line their pockets.

I don't think that it was ever intended for Eugenie to be a working royal other than perhaps a patronage or two and a handful of engagements.

As the oldest child, it was expected for Beatrice to become a working royal and she seemed keen about it, but her "position" was eliminated even before she started the job. She was reportedly not happy about not being able to become a working royal but that was years ago. Who knows if she still hankers to be a working royal or if she has other goals and desires.

Right now, William and Kate are the only working royals in their generation and IMO the BRF has to figure out if that is sufficient, particularly during the reigns of Charles and William. If it is considered insufficient, then they have to figure out how to deal with that. I suspect that William, even though he does not control any purse strings at the moment, will have considerable say over whether or not other younger royals will be conscripted to take on royal duties.
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  #813  
Old 08-08-2020, 09:08 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Some of the public might like that reminder but not everyone does because a lot of that grandeur and status was gained by means that are shameful eg slavery, piracy, imperialism, racism, theft and buckets of bloodshed. The monarchy is also a reminder of entrenched privilege, deference and immense wealth, which isn't to everyone's taste either.

I'm a monarchist despite all of the above but I know many people who aren't and others who just tolerate them because the idea of President (insert your own dismal politician) is worse.

Charles and his advisers have their ear to the ground and they'll do whatever it takes to remain relevant and if that involves slimming down the working family, he won't hesitate (and neither will William).
The Windsors are indeed the great survivors and will do whatever is necessary to remain relevant. I just hope we do not end up with some little glum monarchy or a little glum nation in the North Sea!
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  #814  
Old 08-08-2020, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KellyAtLast View Post
If the Windsors insist on maintaining the same workload they have now and if they refuse to bring in Beatrice and Eugenie even on part time basis then they will have to start giving George royal engagements as soon as he graduates from university. Of course he will go through military training like his dad but he can do royal work on his breaks from training. Unfortunately George will not have the luxury William got being part time royal and part time air ambulance pilot. For the younger siblings they can look to what the Bernadottes are doing. Only pay them per engagement that they take on they can also do this for the york girls..No i do not think Charlottes husband would be needed as full time working royal. Both husbands of the current princess royal did not become working royals her Current husband may take on some royal engagements but thats it. And about the Commonwealth. Well what about it? it's not like they are touring the commonwealth every year. But here is an idea to satisfy the commonwealth when george graduates university why dont they send him to tour the commonwealth himself....
For Future grandchildren of William. Charlottes kids should be like princess anne kids and louis kids should be like the wessex kids.

After Prince Charles, member countries that form the Commonwealth of Nations will most probably elect a new Head since this position is not hereditary and doesn’t have to be a British Monarchy. If that happens, then Prince William will just have to deal with the 16 Commonwealth Realms. In that case, I think William, Kate, Anne, Edward, and Sophie as full time working Royals will be sufficient. George, Charlotte, and Louse will grow up to become fulltime working Royals.

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  #815  
Old 08-08-2020, 12:54 PM
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I think Charles wants a slimmed down Monarchy with just the Monarch, Consort, Heir and Spouse as full time working members. They are in decent shape right now with Anne, Edward and Sophie and the Queen's cousins pinch hitting when needed. The work they do will need to be adjusted to accommodate the numbers available at any given time.

IMO, Harry will be drafted back in (with future spouse) after a period of rehabilitation. George will need to start doing royal duties part time while in University and full time not soon after. Work load needs might necessitate George getting married sooner than his father and grandfather did. Charlotte might do royal duties before marriage but I cannot see Louis being a full time royal. I doubt in 20 years there will be much appetite to have all three of the POW/Monarch's children on the public payroll. Esp. if Anne, Edward and Sophie are still around doing royal duties.
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  #816  
Old 08-08-2020, 01:01 PM
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When you stop to think about it, the monarchy, the British Royal Family, the castles and the palaces (including Windsor Castle which was originally built by William the Conqueror in 1070), the Royal Collection, the many ancient traditions that are still being upheld (the parliamentary hostage for the State Opening of Parliament comes to mind) and the Royal Archives all add up to encapsulate the continuity of the British people. It is the living, breathing testimony of British history. The politicians that wheel and deal and make the laws on how the country is run is more along the "flavor of the day" issues that are affecting the here and the now.

The British monarchy, to me, will remain relevant to the people because its a reminder that life in the UK is based on continuity. The royal personalities will come and go but rather than obliterate the monarchy, they'll add their own "special spice" to the soup called a history of over 1,000 years old whereas a President of a Republic will change like the wind compared to the long lasting stories of how the UK got to where it is today.

Losing the monarchy would be like cutting the heart out of the UK. I say this as an American that would rather have the continual flow of history in my country than the constant need to rewrite it, politicize it and sometimes even destroy it.
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  #817  
Old 08-08-2020, 02:56 PM
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The British Monarch is not wanted in the Commonwealth countries and I think it's right if the junior Kents and Gloucesters and Yorks are all in private life.
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  #818  
Old 08-08-2020, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Susan D View Post
The British Monarch is not wanted in the Commonwealth countries and I think it's right if the junior Kents and Gloucesters and Yorks are all in private life.
Answer me a question then. If the Commonwealth nations don't want anything to do with the British monarchy, why did they vote to have Charles as the head of this organization called the Commonwealth of Nations when the Queen passes back in 2018?

"“We recognise the role of the Queen in championing the Commonwealth and its peoples. The next head of the Commonwealth shall be his Royal Highness Prince Charles, the Prince of Wales,” they said."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...onwealth-queen
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  #819  
Old 08-08-2020, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
I think Charles wants a slimmed down Monarchy with just the Monarch, Consort, Heir and Spouse as full time working members. They are in decent shape right now with Anne, Edward and Sophie and the Queen's cousins pinch hitting when needed. The work they do will need to be adjusted to accommodate the numbers available at any given time.

IMO, Harry will be drafted back in (with future spouse) after a period of rehabilitation. George will need to start doing royal duties part time while in University and full time not soon after. Work load needs might necessitate George getting married sooner than his father and grandfather did. Charlotte might do royal duties before marriage but I cannot see Louis being a full time royal. I doubt in 20 years there will be much appetite to have all three of the POW/Monarch's children on the public payroll. Esp. if Anne, Edward and Sophie are still around doing royal duties.
The princess royal is turning 70 this month, while she might still do some royal activities if her brother is on the throne at that point, I do think her workload will have been reduced considerably. So, not really a reason for the younger Cambridge siblings not to get involved.

I assume William and Catherine will talk things through very extensively with all three of their children before a decision is made. As I'm sure they don't want another Harry. So it should be clear from the beginning whether they'll be full-time royals or not; and if not, what minor role they might have in supporting their father and brother.
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  #820  
Old 08-08-2020, 04:18 PM
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The British Monarch is not wanted in the Commonwealth countries and I think it's right if the junior Kents and Gloucesters and Yorks are all in private life.
Who are you thinking about with the 'junior Kents and Gloucesters'? The non-royal heirs of the current dukes? They aren't royal and won't be upon becoming the next dukes, so they surely will continue as is. The York princesses on the other hand are royal highnesses but so far haven't been involved, so unless Charles and William decide they truly need them (more likely within the UK than in the Commonwealth imho - but still unlikely), I don't expect them to get extensively involved but instead might show up at state banquets and other larger family gatherings (garden parties) etc where the numbers count.
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