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  #641  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Unless someone makes a fuss about the fact that technically he'd be William V of England, William IV of Scotland, and William III of Wales and Northern Ireland .

A lot can happen in 30 years, but the monarchy's a constant. Politicians come and go. Political ideas come and go. Wartime comes and, thankfully, passes. Religious reformation, civil war, parliamentary reform, social change, economic ups and downs ... they all come and go. The monarchy's always there. I personally find that comforting. Others may not, but I do!
It will simply be William V.

Since the union of the thrones, only one numeric has been used. In practice they used the highest ordinal so William V no matter where he is. Elizabeth II is still Elizabeth II in Scotland though she is their first monarch of the name.

The counting also only goes back to the Norman Conquest. Prior the king epitaphs like the confessor instead. So if George’s eldest son was named Alfred and there is still a monarchy when George dies his son would be Alfred I not II despite Alfred the great.

I do think there will be king George. Will he be more then king of the UK?? Questionable. Canada and a few islands may remain. Canada really has no republican movement and may be the last to hold on.
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  #642  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Unless someone makes a fuss about the fact that technically he'd be William V of England, William IV of Scotland, and William III of Wales and Northern Ireland .
He will be William V everywhere. That was made clear when Elizabeth became the Queen and the Scots objected to her using II in Scotland as they had never had an Elizabeth. Everyone agreed that the number would be the same everywhere and would be based on the highest previously used.

A King James would therefore be the VIII only - not III and VIII. A Henry would be IX despite no Henry in Scotland while a Malcolm would be IV even though there has been no Malcolm in England.
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  #643  
Old 02-06-2020, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post

I do think there will be king George. Will he be more then king of the UK?? Questionable. Canada and a few islands may remain. Canada really has no republican movement and may be the last to hold on.
We don't have a republican movement, or an appetite for constitutional change. Getting rid of the monarchy would be really hard to do. I don't see it happening.
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  #644  
Old 02-07-2020, 10:23 PM
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I hope this is the right thread for this and if not, my apologies! Anyway...I'm seeing some buzz today that the Queen has decided that Beatrice and Eugenie should step up to becoming working members of the RF if they agree to do so and that Charles is said to be on board with this. Granted, this goes against what we've so often heard about Charles' wish to slim the monarchy, etc. and it does say that it would only be with the agreement of the girls and certainly not a directive from HM but that Charles now realizes that going forward they'll need the help and that he's quite fond of both girls and seems content for them to step up if they so choose. Now, this is all gossip at this point so take it with a grain of salt but, if it's true, it does seem to me to be a fabulous move for the immediate future of the RF.
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  #645  
Old 02-07-2020, 11:31 PM
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This suggestion is from an article by Richard Eden of the DM, an extremely unreliable source indeed. And Eugenie at least has a full time job, her own charities and a private life she is very fond of. Both sisters are newly married or going to be and will probably start their families in the next year or two. Hardly ideal for taking on fulltime Royal duties if you don't have to.
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  #646  
Old 02-07-2020, 11:32 PM
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Is there a credible source for this information? I'll wait for the official word from the "Firm" itself before I believe something like this rumor.

Personally, I don't think either Beatrice or Eugenie would even want to consider being "elevated" to working for the "Firm". It would be a full time job in and of itself and these two women already have their own lives mapped out the way they want them.

JMO
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  #647  
Old 02-08-2020, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Is there a credible source for this information? I'll wait for the official word from the "Firm" itself before I believe something like this rumor.

Personally, I don't think either Beatrice or Eugenie would even want to consider being "elevated" to working for the "Firm". It would be a full time job in and of itself and these two women already have their own lives mapped out the way they want them.

JMO
It would also mean they would get public money and public funded security which 'the public' won't want to pay for because they are not wanted by most people to play a role in public life. If this story is true then the Quenn is wrong to think she can replace Harry and Meghan with Beatrice and Eugenie as it's not replacing like for like. H and E were popular (to start with) and large crowds came out for them. No one will come out for the Yorks indeed it will only spark mass criticism if they go on the public payroll. I suggest the Queen works with what she already has as drawing B and E into the equation will just cause more bad publicity.
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  #648  
Old 02-08-2020, 05:09 AM
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There was actually an article recently in the Mail Online that claimed the Queen wanted to elevate Beatrice and Eugenie to "working" royals.
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  #649  
Old 02-08-2020, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
There was actually an article recently in the Mail Online that claimed the Queen wanted to elevate Beatrice and Eugenie to "working" royals.
That's the one I'm talking about.
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  #650  
Old 02-08-2020, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
It would also mean they would get public money and public funded security which 'the public' won't want to pay for because they are not wanted by most people to play a role in public life. If this story is true then the Quenn is wrong to think she can replace Harry and Meghan with Beatrice and Eugenie as it's not replacing like for like. H and E were popular (to start with) and large crowds came out for them. No one will come out for the Yorks indeed it will only spark mass criticism if they go on the public payroll. I suggest the Queen works with what she already has as drawing B and E into the equation will just cause more bad publicity.
I agree its not a great idea, but what HAS the queen "already got!"? She has almost nothing to work with. Tthe set up was that Charles and his 2 sons and their wives would be the main workers with assistance from his siblings and the Kents and Gloucesters - but Edward Kent is old and il. Camilla is not always in good health either.
The D of Glos is getting on as well, Anne is a hard worker but she is now 70. Its possible that these older royals might have health problems in the next few years that would remove them from the working roster.
Of the 2 younger royal couples one pair has now gone.. and I'd say will never be back.. so unless some other younger royals help out a bit, the queen does NOT have much back up.
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  #651  
Old 02-08-2020, 08:56 AM
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I agree its not a great idea, but what HAS the queen "already got!"? She has almost nothing to work with. Tthe set up was that Charles and his 2 sons and their wives would be the main workers with assistance from his siblings and the Kents and Gloucesters - but Edward Kent is old and il. Camilla is not always in good health either.
The D of Glos is getting on as well, Anne is a hard worker but she is now 70. Its possible that these older royals might have health problems in the next few years that would remove them from the working roster.
Of the 2 younger royal couples one pair has now gone.. and I'd say will never be back.. so unless some other younger royals help out a bit, the queen does NOT have much back up.
What 'work' is there that needs more than around 4-5 people anyway? Princess Anne visited a Citizens Advice Office next door to where I work about a year ago. I had a look out the window to see her go in and she left about half an hour later. Most people in my office didn't even bother doing that and apart from a few people in the street stopping to look over no one could have cared less if she was there or not. My point is that if that is a member if the family who is somewhat respected and liked and that's the reaction she got what hope is there for the Yorks? Also her visit didn't actually contribute anything to the workings of the office she visited as most royal visits don't. A lot of what they do is done to justify their existence and not actually needed.
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  #652  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:05 AM
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That may be the case but If that is so, then I think that the RF are moving towards slimming down and only concentrating on the essentials. If you feel that what they do is just to "justify their existence", then there's no real justifacaiton for a monarchy at all. But I don't think ti would look good to drop all the charities at once...
Well there actually isn't any justification to pay for a whole family of people when Republics do just fine with a President and his wife. It is possible however to have a Monarchy with just two main players as Spain proves.
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  #653  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:09 AM
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Curious. How do we know that Beatrice and Eugenie cannot replace the Sussexes? Granted, H& M were enormously popular at home and abroad, but does that mean that the York sisters MUST draw the same type of crowds to be successful? What if they work hard and are dedicated to their charities like the Princess Royal? Is it all a waste of time if they do not have global rock star appeal?

I reject the idea that "nobody wants to see" Beatrice or Eugenie.

Unless they have ever showed up to an event and been booed and hissed, or even an appearance where no one bothered to turn up,
I tend to feel it's people projecting their own biases against them to say they couldn't take up some of the Sussexes slack.
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  #654  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Curious. How do we know that Beatrice and Eugenie cannot replace the Sussexes? Granted, H& M were enormously popular at home and abroad, but does that mean that the York sisters MUST draw the same type of crowds to be successful? What if they work hard and are dedicated to their charities like the Princess Royal? Is it all a waste of time if they do not have global rock star appeal?

I reject the idea that "nobody wants to see" Beatrice or Eugenie.

Unless they have ever showed up to an event and been booed and hissed, or even an appearance where no one bothered to turn up,
I tend to feel it's people projecting their own biases against them to say they couldn't take up some of the Sussexes slack.
I mean a lot if what the royal family do is superfluous no matter which one you are talking about and whether crowds come out or not. Beyond the ceremonial events carried out by the Monarch and perhaps his or her heir what else do royals do that is essential for the country? They are rich people and can help charities if they want in a private capacity without public funding.
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  #655  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:19 AM
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sophie25, I was responding to the ideas expressed that the York princesses would be failures as working Royals because no one wants them.

Is there evidence to bear this out?
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  #656  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Curious. How do we know that Beatrice and Eugenie cannot replace the Sussexes? Granted, H& M were enormously popular at home and abroad, but does that mean that the York sisters MUST draw the same type of crowds to be successful? What if they work hard and are dedicated to their charities like the Princess Royal? Is it all a waste of time if they do not have global rock star appeal?

I reject the idea that "nobody wants to see" Beatrice or Eugenie.

Unless they have ever showed up to an event and been booed and hissed, or even an appearance where no one bothered to turn up,
I tend to feel it's people projecting their own biases against them to say they couldn't take up some of the Sussexes slack.

I would be glad to see Beatrice and Eugenie become at least part time working Royals ...I think they would be interesting to the younger crowd especially if they pick up some charities specific to their causes. I don't think they would be boo'd and I do think ppl would turn up...maybe at first cautiously but more as their popularity increased. Assuming they focus on the right work. I'm just not sure either of them want to do it.



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  #657  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
sophie25, I was responding to the ideas expressed that the York princesses would be failures as working Royals because no one wants them.

Is there evidence to bear this out?
They're not all that popular.. and now with the ANdy thing. But if they took on a bit of wrok...they might do OK. Unless the RF drop a lot of charities aall at once I think someone is going to have to step in or the remaining Royals who work are going to have to do more.
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  #658  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
sophie25, I was responding to the ideas expressed that the York princesses would be failures as working Royals because no one wants them.

Is there evidence to bear this out?
When you look at the outcry over the taxpayer money spent on Frogmore Cottage, for example, which was for a supposedly popular royal couple can you imagine the reaction if B and E were put on the public payroll?
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  #659  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Curious. How do we know that Beatrice and Eugenie cannot replace the Sussexes? Granted, H& M were enormously popular at home and abroad, but does that mean that the York sisters MUST draw the same type of crowds to be successful? What if they work hard and are dedicated to their charities like the Princess Royal? Is it all a waste of time if they do not have global rock star appeal?

I reject the idea that "nobody wants to see" Beatrice or Eugenie.

Unless they have ever showed up to an event and been booed and hissed, or even an appearance where no one bothered to turn up,
I tend to feel it's people projecting their own biases against them to say they couldn't take up some of the Sussexes slack.
It's an interesting idea, and one I'm warming up to. I do think that they would have to be willing to work very hard in a quiet way to prove that they have the commitment and stamina to do royal work, but just as Camilla and Sophie have done, I think eventually they could prove themselves and earn a place for themselves.

So far as not having the glamour of the Sussexes goes, I think that's actually a plus, since we have all seen that no matter how much charisma the Sussexes may have had, they lacked the intestinal fortitude to stick it out. A lot of royal work is hard, unglamorous, and mundane so I think a willingness to work hard and persistently has a lot more value than being a superstar. Whether that would be something that Beatrice and Eugenie would want to do is less certain.
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  #660  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:36 AM
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It's an interesting idea, and one I'm warming up to. I do think that they would have to be willing to work very hard in a quiet way to prove that they have the commitment and stamina to do royal work, but just as Camilla and Sophie have done, I think eventually they could prove themselves and earn a place for themselves.

So far as not having the glamour of the Sussexes goes, I think that's actually a plus, since we have all seen that no matter how much charisma the Sussexes may have had, they lacked the intestinal fortitude to stick it out. A lot of royal work is hard, unglamorous, and mundane so I think a willingness to work hard and persistently has a lot more value than being a superstar. Whether that would be something that Beatrice and Eugenie would want to do is less certain.
I am not sure they would be up for it.. perhaps when they were early 20s if they had started off as working princesses, it would be one thing. but now they've built their lives, they are both married or about to marry, and have kids.. They might take on a few engagements, but Im not sure they'd want to work steady for the RF. I think they'd understand the "Royal life isn't always glamorous, its often boring and dull, but one smiles and does it.. " thing.. which I don't think that Harry and Meg did. Him as much as her in a different way...
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