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  #461  
Old 01-16-2020, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Of course there is no need for that. Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Finland, Portugal, etc. all thrive well without a daughter or a niece or a grandson of the President cutting a ribbon here or laying a first stone there.

When in France a new hospital is opened, one can expect le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire, etc. bursting of pride and posing for the local newspaper. I don't think any Queen or Princess is missed here.

The case for a big "Royal Firm" is pretty wobbly.
Interesting that "le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire" sounds more prominent than "The duchess of Sussex"
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  #462  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:32 AM
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yep- which is why the British will realize that and move to abolish. Celebrities can be hired and fired without much drama.
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  #463  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:49 AM
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yep- which is why the British will realize that and move to abolish. Celebrities can be hired and fired without much drama.
I doubt we'll abolish the monarchy but surveys have shown people are in favour of it being slimmed down. If Charles does OK as king, the institution will survive & popularity scores are likely to remain high for William & Catherine, particularly as they are in tune with current concerns of their generation eg mental health, the climate crisis, the environment...
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  #464  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:54 AM
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How many people in the UK wants the monarchy? Have never read anything about polls about it. Is it over 80 per cent like in Norway?
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  #465  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pkl View Post
Interesting that "le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire" sounds more prominent than "The duchess of Sussex"
The point of constitutional monarchy is precisely to separate ceremonial state functions from politicians like the “ ministre des solidarités et de lá santé”. I am pretty sure the Brits would rather have a son or grandson of the Queen cutting a ribbon than a partisan minister who would turn the event into political advertising for his /her party.
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  #466  
Old 01-16-2020, 07:06 AM
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How many people in the UK wants the monarchy? Have never read anything about polls about it. Is it over 80 per cent like in Norway?
Back in November, almost half of Brits (47%) "believe the way Prince Andrew has responded to the allegations has damaged the monarchy" from a YouGov survey
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...s-account-his-

Last week, a YouGov survey showed some popularity drops but mainly for Harry & Meghan:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...ularity-01.png

In May 2018, support for the monarchy as an institution was about 70%
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...re-monarchists
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  #467  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Of course there is no need for that. Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Finland, Portugal, etc. all thrive well without a daughter or a niece or a grandson of the President cutting a ribbon here or laying a first stone there.

When in France a new hospital is opened, one can expect le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire, etc. bursting of pride and posing for the local newspaper. I don't think any Queen or Princess is missed here.

The case for a big "Royal Firm" is pretty wobbly.

There are several charities in Germany who have a patron/president or "Schirmherr" (directly translated Umbrellaowner, the one who is responsible for the umbrella these organisations are protected by) who is a member of a former ruling House. Not only of the former Royal oder Grandducal/Ducal or Princely Houses but of lesser nobles if they still own the "manor" of their village or town. But that's only an effect because they do something for the community and as thus, they are asked to open new buildings etc.
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  #468  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
There are several charities in Germany who have a patron/president or "Schirmherr" (directly translated Umbrellaowner, the one who is responsible for the umbrella these organisations are protected by) who is a member of a former ruling House. Not only of the former Royal oder Grandducal/Ducal or Princely Houses but of lesser nobles if they still own the "manor" of their village or town. But that's only an effect because they do something for the community and as thus, they are asked to open new buildings etc.
Yes that is is in the Netherlands too. The local lord or lady to the manor born functioning as beschermheer or beschermvrouwe (patron or patroness) of the local marksmen guild, of the local church committee, of the local branch of the scouting or the local Red Cross. Not only nobles but prominent families. In Dutch they are called notabelen or prominenten. You see that in France or Italy as wel: the local who-is-who being guests of honour.
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  #469  
Old 01-16-2020, 03:10 PM
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Anne's children would be a better choice, even though they don't have titles. William is closer to them than he is to the Yorks. And since these cousins would be his support system in the firm we can't overstate the value of his trust. Zara might not be a viable option. She has her successful sporting career. But Peter could work and if Autumn was willing to join him, you'd get two firm members for the price of one. Meaning that you'd only need one residence for the couple (Frogmore? if the Sussexes totally transplant to N. America). Personally I think that's another big drawback for Beatrice and Eugenie. You would need to supply two royal residences for the two of them.

Peter has been a good support system for William. He was there in Balmoral comforting William when Diana died. And just recently he was in Sandringham when the Sussex "crisis" talks were taking place. He and Autumn both seem reliable and not flashy. A lot like the Wessexes, actually. And that's the kind of members they really need right now.
I'm not opposed to the York girls stepping up and I think given their HRH's and the fact that they were raised entirely inside the Firm would make it relatively easy to do. However, I can't tell you how much I agree about Peter/Autumn and would love to see them step in. In fact, earlier on in the other thread I posted about how much of a support Peter is for William and how valuable I think his advice would be. I would love to see Zara step in but her career wouldn't allow for that, I don't think. As for Peter and Autumn, as much as I would love to see them step in and as fabulous as I believe they'd be, I don't see it as likely. For one, they have no title or style, not even as that of children of an Earl. In the grand scheme of things that doesn't really matter and could be changed but it would seem to the public to be a massive sign of discontinuity. For two, I don't believe they'd willingly do it. I do believe that they might agree to, on rare occasions, perform some duties and be duly reimbursed but I don't believe they'd agree to a full or even part-time royal schedule. I will not be surprised, however, if throughout the next few decades we see Peter acting as an unofficial adviser and counselor to William because he seems to be infinitely both stable and supportive and a sound head on his shoulders and good advice and appears to be one of the few people who might be able to tell William things he doesn't necessarily want to hear and make him listen.
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  #470  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:05 PM
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I expect I could find this info via google but somebody might have it in succinct form so I'll ask. What are the actual duties of the monarch - task by task? I'm trying to get a picture of the core essential work that must be done in order to judge whether it's possible to cover it with a King, Queen, heir & spouse. I'm thinking ahead to Charles' 'slimmed down monarchy' & how it could work. We're so used to the BRF doing all sorts of things that maybe we can't envisage how a smaller royal family could manage the workload but what is the actual, defined workload as opposed to what the monarch does voluntarily? So for example:

Essential activities for the monarch (or their reps) are:
* Opening of Parliament
* Weekly audience with the PM
* Awarding honours
* Entertaining visiting heads of state
* Making state visits to other countries on behalf of the FCO
* Garter Day
* Diplomatic reception
* Trooping the Colour
* Remembrance Services
* Head of Commonwealth duties
* The red boxes
* Receiving new foreign ambassadors
* Privy Council

Additional activities that aren't essential to the role of monarch (or their reps):
* Garden parties
* Patronages
* UK tours/visits
* Overseas tours/visits that aren't 'state visits'

Feel free to chip in...
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  #471  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pkl View Post
Interesting that "le Ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé, le Préfet de Département, le Maire" sounds more prominent than "The duchess of Sussex"
That's three different people; it's either/or. In Meghan's case, if she used all three of her titles: 'The Duchess of Sussex, Countess of Dumbarton, Baroness Kilkeel' it also sounds more impressive (and that's all for just one person).
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  #472  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:18 PM
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I would add receiving new foreign ambassadors (they present their credentials to the monarch in an audience) to the essentials list. In addition to entertaining visiting heads of state, there are also audiences or courtesy calls from heads of governments (prime ministers) who might be in the UK for talks with UK PM.
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  #473  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:23 PM
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Appointing members of government also seems one of the essential tasks.
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  #474  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:42 PM
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@Lady Marlboro
Thanks for the suggestions. I've added the foreign ambassadors & also I remembered of the Privy Council, which I've added.

@Somebody
Do you mean asking a party leader to form a government? The monarch does that but it only takes 10 minutes so I won't add it yet. The PM appoints government ministers so I'm not sure what part the monarch plays in it (if any). Could you elaborate or does anyone else have any info on that?
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  #475  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:44 PM
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If Monday's African gala is anything to go on - it looks like the Wessex's and the Princess Royal will be moved forward. So essential Charles plan for the future has changed a bit. That must be a stone in Charles's shoe - just when he though the future was completed stitched up and final. So Team King Charles is now looking like - William, Kate, Edward, Sophie and Anne.
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  #476  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
If Monday's African gala is anything to go on - it looks like the Wessex's and the Princess Royal will be moved forward. So essential Charles plan for the future has changed a bit. That must be a stone in Charles's shoe - just when he though the future was completed stitched up and final. So Team King Charles is now looking like - William, Kate, Edward, Sophie and Anne.
which is a pretty small team.
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  #477  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:14 PM
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Well- as far as headcount goes it is the same number Charles wanted for a slimmed down monarchy.
Just a difference of Wessex from Sussex.
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  #478  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:01 PM
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Well- as far as headcount goes it is the same number Charles wanted for a slimmed down monarchy.
Just a difference of Wessex from Sussex.
I think that Charles intended Anne and EDw and Sophie to continue with their work as long as they were able to do so.. and he expected the Cambs and the Sussexes to be full time royals and carrying the heaviest part of the burden as the older ones got older. Now he is losing 2 of the young ones...
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  #479  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:45 PM
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I think that Charles intended Anne and EDw and Sophie to continue with their work as long as they were able to do so.. and he expected the Cambs and the Sussexes to be full time royals and carrying the heaviest part of the burden as the older ones got older. Now he is losing 2 of the young ones...


Yes- that is exactly what I think he had planned.

Well- now that Harry and Meghan have been sorted out- more fun for the family as they look to what this loss means for them and how they will handle it short and long term. They must be exhausted.
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  #480  
Old 01-18-2020, 04:23 PM
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So Team King Charles is now looking like - William, Kate, Edward, Sophie and Anne.
You omitted the his Queen - Camilla
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