The Future of the British Monarchy 1: 2018 - 2022

[Tatiana Maria]

I have replied in the following thread.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...sh-styles-and-titles-258-238.html#post2290597

 

[QueenMathilde]

I have replied in the following thread.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...sh-styles-and-titles-258-238.html#post2290597

Thanks!

 

[Iluvbertie]

OK here's another question. Harry and Meghan supposedly want to raise Archie as a "commoner". So are these titles automatic or can they refuse them?

Archie will be a commoner until Harry dies and he becomes a peer of the realm. Harry only stopped being a commoner on his wedding day when he was made The Duke of Sussex.

Archie will become HRH Prince Archie of Sussex when Charles becomes King but ... like Louise and James it is possible that Charles could announce that Archie won't be HRH using 'The Kings' Will'. He could also use Letters Patent to restrict HRH to deny HRH to Archie, and any sibling/s.

Archie will have one year, after Harry's death, to refuse the Sussex title and remain Mr Archie Mountbatten-Windsor. That won't end the title but he won't use it and will have the rights of a non-peer. When Archie then dies, if he has a son, that son will become Duke of Sussex and again will have one year to disclaim the title.

 

[ACO]

I think the British monarchy is going to last a long time. I don't think William is going to be the last monarch in the UK.
The British monarchy is one of the safest in Europe.
I think the monarchies will still last a few decades, then it will soon be seen ....

I wouldn't assume that. I honestly do worry about it once HMQ is gone. I have my doubts we will see King George but time will tell. A lot can happen in 30+ years. Life proves that every day.

 

[EllieCat]

I have my doubts we will see King George but time will tell. A lot can happen in 30+ years. Life proves that every day.

I certainly won't see King George VII, but that's only cause i will be pushing up daisies

I'd definetely want to see King Charles III and King William V (hope i have those numerals right ?

 

[Fijiro]

I have my doubts we will see King George but time will tell. A lot can happen in 30+ years. Life proves that every day.

I certainly won't see King George VII, but that's only cause i will be pushing up daisies

I'd definetely want to see King Charles III and King William V (hope i have those numerals right ?

I think Prince Charles might go by King George VII - that his one of his middle names. And little Prince George will then be King George VIII.

 

[Somebody]

While in the past kings indeed often had different regal names than the names they were known by, I would like to think that is something of the past. So, just like Willem-Alexander didn't become king Willem IV, I would hope to see Charles as king Charles and not as King George (or anything else).

Interestingly, in the Dutch case both the current king and the princess of Orange go by their 'second name' while they have a double regal name: King Willem-Alexander is 'Alex' in daily life (of course only by those who personally know him; for all others he is 'de/zijne/uwe majesteit' (the/his/your majesty) - or 'de/hunne/uwe majesteiten' (the/their/your majesties) if both the king and queen are referenced) and future queen Catharina-Amalia is 'Amalia' in daily life.

 

[Leopoldine]

He may not be much loved but he'll be OK. he's a wealthy privileged man who has a role that means a lot ot him and he will go on doing his job. He went through bad times during the Diana years and I daresay tahtt he knows now that he may not be very popular but he has come through those bad times and survivied. He has a busy life, a wife that he's contented with.. and I think he's a reasonably happy man these days. Of course the monarchy may not last but nothing lasts forever and if it ended when William was king I don't tink it would break Will's heart..

Charles is sort of a man in amber. He lives like a past century royal. He travels with an artist to record everything via watercolor, and he thinks his whinging travel journals (Hong Kong 1997) are important enough to circulate among his friends.

I can't imagine Boris's response to Charles's current spider letters.

 

[Betsypaige]

I don’t understand all this talk about the monarchy ending after the Queen dies, considering it’s lasted 1000 years. I adore HM, but the monarchy existed before her and it will outlast her

 

[Alison H]

I have my doubts we will see King George but time will tell. A lot can happen in 30+ years. Life proves that every day.

I certainly won't see King George VII, but that's only cause i will be pushing up daisies

I'd definetely want to see King Charles III and King William V (hope i have those numerals right ?

Unless someone makes a fuss about the fact that technically he'd be William V of England, William IV of Scotland, and William III of Wales and Northern Ireland ?.

A lot can happen in 30 years, but the monarchy's a constant. Politicians come and go. Political ideas come and go. Wartime comes and, thankfully, passes. Religious reformation, civil war, parliamentary reform, social change, economic ups and downs ... they all come and go. The monarchy's always there. I personally find that comforting. Others may not, but I do!

 

[Countessmeout]

Unless someone makes a fuss about the fact that technically he'd be William V of England, William IV of Scotland, and William III of Wales and Northern Ireland ?.

A lot can happen in 30 years, but the monarchy's a constant. Politicians come and go. Political ideas come and go. Wartime comes and, thankfully, passes. Religious reformation, civil war, parliamentary reform, social change, economic ups and downs ... they all come and go. The monarchy's always there. I personally find that comforting. Others may not, but I do!

It will simply be William V.

Since the union of the thrones, only one numeric has been used. In practice they used the highest ordinal so William V no matter where he is. Elizabeth II is still Elizabeth II in Scotland though she is their first monarch of the name.

The counting also only goes back to the Norman Conquest. Prior the king epitaphs like the confessor instead. So if George’s eldest son was named Alfred and there is still a monarchy when George dies his son would be Alfred I not II despite Alfred the great.

I do think there will be king George. Will he be more then king of the UK?? Questionable. Canada and a few islands may remain. Canada really has no republican movement and may be the last to hold on.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Unless someone makes a fuss about the fact that technically he'd be William V of England, William IV of Scotland, and William III of Wales and Northern Ireland ?.

He will be William V everywhere. That was made clear when Elizabeth became the Queen and the Scots objected to her using II in Scotland as they had never had an Elizabeth. Everyone agreed that the number would be the same everywhere and would be based on the highest previously used.

A King James would therefore be the VIII only - not III and VIII. A Henry would be IX despite no Henry in Scotland while a Malcolm would be IV even though there has been no Malcolm in England.

 

[yvr girl]

I do think there will be king George. Will he be more then king of the UK?? Questionable. Canada and a few islands may remain. Canada really has no republican movement and may be the last to hold on.

We don't have a republican movement, or an appetite for constitutional change. Getting rid of the monarchy would be really hard to do. I don't see it happening.

 

[_Heather_]

I hope this is the right thread for this and if not, my apologies! Anyway...I'm seeing some buzz today that the Queen has decided that Beatrice and Eugenie should step up to becoming working members of the RF if they agree to do so and that Charles is said to be on board with this. Granted, this goes against what we've so often heard about Charles' wish to slim the monarchy, etc. and it does say that it would only be with the agreement of the girls and certainly not a directive from HM but that Charles now realizes that going forward they'll need the help and that he's quite fond of both girls and seems content for them to step up if they so choose. Now, this is all gossip at this point so take it with a grain of salt but, if it's true, it does seem to me to be a fabulous move for the immediate future of the RF.

 

[Curryong]

This suggestion is from an article by Richard Eden of the DM, an extremely unreliable source indeed. And Eugenie at least has a full time job, her own charities and a private life she is very fond of. Both sisters are newly married or going to be and will probably start their families in the next year or two. Hardly ideal for taking on fulltime Royal duties if you don't have to.

 

[Osipi]

Is there a credible source for this information? I'll wait for the official word from the "Firm" itself before I believe something like this rumor.

Personally, I don't think either Beatrice or Eugenie would even want to consider being "elevated" to working for the "Firm". It would be a full time job in and of itself and these two women already have their own lives mapped out the way they want them.

JMO

 

[sophie25]

Is there a credible source for this information? I'll wait for the official word from the "Firm" itself before I believe something like this rumor.

Personally, I don't think either Beatrice or Eugenie would even want to consider being "elevated" to working for the "Firm". It would be a full time job in and of itself and these two women already have their own lives mapped out the way they want them.

JMO

It would also mean they would get public money and public funded security which 'the public' won't want to pay for because they are not wanted by most people to play a role in public life. If this story is true then the Quenn is wrong to think she can replace Harry and Meghan with Beatrice and Eugenie as it's not replacing like for like. H and E were popular (to start with) and large crowds came out for them. No one will come out for the Yorks indeed it will only spark mass criticism if they go on the public payroll. I suggest the Queen works with what she already has as drawing B and E into the equation will just cause more bad publicity.

 

[QueenMathilde]

There was actually an article recently in the Mail Online that claimed the Queen wanted to elevate Beatrice and Eugenie to "working" royals.

 

[sophie25]

There was actually an article recently in the Mail Online that claimed the Queen wanted to elevate Beatrice and Eugenie to "working" royals.

That's the one I'm talking about.

 

[Denville]

It would also mean they would get public money and public funded security which 'the public' won't want to pay for because they are not wanted by most people to play a role in public life. If this story is true then the Quenn is wrong to think she can replace Harry and Meghan with Beatrice and Eugenie as it's not replacing like for like. H and E were popular (to start with) and large crowds came out for them. No one will come out for the Yorks indeed it will only spark mass criticism if they go on the public payroll. I suggest the Queen works with what she already has as drawing B and E into the equation will just cause more bad publicity.

I agree its not a great idea, but what HAS the queen "already got!"? She has almost nothing to work with. Tthe set up was that Charles and his 2 sons and their wives would be the main workers with assistance from his siblings and the Kents and Gloucesters - but Edward Kent is old and il. Camilla is not always in good health either.
The D of Glos is getting on as well, Anne is a hard worker but she is now 70. Its possible that these older royals might have health problems in the next few years that would remove them from the working roster.
Of the 2 younger royal couples one pair has now gone.. and I'd say will never be back.. so unless some other younger royals help out a bit, the queen does NOT have much back up.

 

[sophie25]

I agree its not a great idea, but what HAS the queen "already got!"? She has almost nothing to work with. Tthe set up was that Charles and his 2 sons and their wives would be the main workers with assistance from his siblings and the Kents and Gloucesters - but Edward Kent is old and il. Camilla is not always in good health either.
The D of Glos is getting on as well, Anne is a hard worker but she is now 70. Its possible that these older royals might have health problems in the next few years that would remove them from the working roster.
Of the 2 younger royal couples one pair has now gone.. and I'd say will never be back.. so unless some other younger royals help out a bit, the queen does NOT have much back up.

What 'work' is there that needs more than around 4-5 people anyway? Princess Anne visited a Citizens Advice Office next door to where I work about a year ago. I had a look out the window to see her go in and she left about half an hour later. Most people in my office didn't even bother doing that and apart from a few people in the street stopping to look over no one could have cared less if she was there or not. My point is that if that is a member if the family who is somewhat respected and liked and that's the reaction she got what hope is there for the Yorks? Also her visit didn't actually contribute anything to the workings of the office she visited as most royal visits don't. A lot of what they do is done to justify their existence and not actually needed.

 

[sophie25]

That may be the case but If that is so, then I think that the RF are moving towards slimming down and only concentrating on the essentials. If you feel that what they do is just to "justify their existence", then there's no real justifacaiton for a monarchy at all. But I don't think ti would look good to drop all the charities at once...

Well there actually isn't any justification to pay for a whole family of people when Republics do just fine with a President and his wife. It is possible however to have a Monarchy with just two main players as Spain proves.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Curious. How do we know that Beatrice and Eugenie cannot replace the Sussexes? Granted, H& M were enormously popular at home and abroad, but does that mean that the York sisters MUST draw the same type of crowds to be successful? What if they work hard and are dedicated to their charities like the Princess Royal? Is it all a waste of time if they do not have global rock star appeal?

I reject the idea that "nobody wants to see" Beatrice or Eugenie.

Unless they have ever showed up to an event and been booed and hissed, or even an appearance where no one bothered to turn up,
I tend to feel it's people projecting their own biases against them to say they couldn't take up some of the Sussexes slack.

 

[sophie25]

Curious. How do we know that Beatrice and Eugenie cannot replace the Sussexes? Granted, H& M were enormously popular at home and abroad, but does that mean that the York sisters MUST draw the same type of crowds to be successful? What if they work hard and are dedicated to their charities like the Princess Royal? Is it all a waste of time if they do not have global rock star appeal?

I reject the idea that "nobody wants to see" Beatrice or Eugenie.

Unless they have ever showed up to an event and been booed and hissed, or even an appearance where no one bothered to turn up,
I tend to feel it's people projecting their own biases against them to say they couldn't take up some of the Sussexes slack.

I mean a lot if what the royal family do is superfluous no matter which one you are talking about and whether crowds come out or not. Beyond the ceremonial events carried out by the Monarch and perhaps his or her heir what else do royals do that is essential for the country? They are rich people and can help charities if they want in a private capacity without public funding.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

sophie25, I was responding to the ideas expressed that the York princesses would be failures as working Royals because no one wants them.

Is there evidence to bear this out?

 

[Pranter]

Curious. How do we know that Beatrice and Eugenie cannot replace the Sussexes? Granted, H& M were enormously popular at home and abroad, but does that mean that the York sisters MUST draw the same type of crowds to be successful? What if they work hard and are dedicated to their charities like the Princess Royal? Is it all a waste of time if they do not have global rock star appeal?

I reject the idea that "nobody wants to see" Beatrice or Eugenie.

Unless they have ever showed up to an event and been booed and hissed, or even an appearance where no one bothered to turn up,
I tend to feel it's people projecting their own biases against them to say they couldn't take up some of the Sussexes slack.

I would be glad to see Beatrice and Eugenie become at least part time working Royals ...I think they would be interesting to the younger crowd especially if they pick up some charities specific to their causes. I don't think they would be boo'd and I do think ppl would turn up...maybe at first cautiously but more as their popularity increased. Assuming they focus on the right work. I'm just not sure either of them want to do it.



LaRae

 

[Denville]

sophie25, I was responding to the ideas expressed that the York princesses would be failures as working Royals because no one wants them.

Is there evidence to bear this out?

They're not all that popular.. and now with the ANdy thing. But if they took on a bit of wrok...they might do OK. Unless the RF drop a lot of charities aall at once I think someone is going to have to step in or the remaining Royals who work are going to have to do more.

 

[sophie25]

sophie25, I was responding to the ideas expressed that the York princesses would be failures as working Royals because no one wants them.

Is there evidence to bear this out?

When you look at the outcry over the taxpayer money spent on Frogmore Cottage, for example, which was for a supposedly popular royal couple can you imagine the reaction if B and E were put on the public payroll?

 

[Ista]

Curious. How do we know that Beatrice and Eugenie cannot replace the Sussexes? Granted, H& M were enormously popular at home and abroad, but does that mean that the York sisters MUST draw the same type of crowds to be successful? What if they work hard and are dedicated to their charities like the Princess Royal? Is it all a waste of time if they do not have global rock star appeal?

I reject the idea that "nobody wants to see" Beatrice or Eugenie.

Unless they have ever showed up to an event and been booed and hissed, or even an appearance where no one bothered to turn up,
I tend to feel it's people projecting their own biases against them to say they couldn't take up some of the Sussexes slack.

It's an interesting idea, and one I'm warming up to. I do think that they would have to be willing to work very hard in a quiet way to prove that they have the commitment and stamina to do royal work, but just as Camilla and Sophie have done, I think eventually they could prove themselves and earn a place for themselves.

So far as not having the glamour of the Sussexes goes, I think that's actually a plus, since we have all seen that no matter how much charisma the Sussexes may have had, they lacked the intestinal fortitude to stick it out. A lot of royal work is hard, unglamorous, and mundane so I think a willingness to work hard and persistently has a lot more value than being a superstar. Whether that would be something that Beatrice and Eugenie would want to do is less certain.

 

[Denville]

It's an interesting idea, and one I'm warming up to. I do think that they would have to be willing to work very hard in a quiet way to prove that they have the commitment and stamina to do royal work, but just as Camilla and Sophie have done, I think eventually they could prove themselves and earn a place for themselves.

So far as not having the glamour of the Sussexes goes, I think that's actually a plus, since we have all seen that no matter how much charisma the Sussexes may have had, they lacked the intestinal fortitude to stick it out. A lot of royal work is hard, unglamorous, and mundane so I think a willingness to work hard and persistently has a lot more value than being a superstar. Whether that would be something that Beatrice and Eugenie would want to do is less certain.

I am not sure they would be up for it.. perhaps when they were early 20s if they had started off as working princesses, it would be one thing. but now they've built their lives, they are both married or about to marry, and have kids.. They might take on a few engagements, but Im not sure they'd want to work steady for the RF. I think they'd understand the "Royal life isn't always glamorous, its often boring and dull, but one smiles and does it.. " thing.. which I don't think that Harry and Meg did. Him as much as her in a different way...