The Court Circular

[Iluvbertie]

That counting of engagements is a hobby by a certain individual whom keeps track and informs media, taking it over without any critical eye: copy-and-paste and sloppy journalism in optima forma.

Every normal person would count "The Princess Royal made a visit to South Georgia where a varied afternoon and evening program was followed" as one engagement: "Visit to South Georgia". The chap however counted it with lots of creativity:

Engagement 1:
The Princess Royal toured the British Antarctic Survey Research Station.

Engagement 2:
The Princess Royal viewed the Shackleton Memorial.

Engagement 3:
The Princess Royal was greeted by South Georgia Government Officers.

Engagement 4:
The Princess Royal met with the British Antarctic Survey Research Staff at Everson House, King Edward Point.

Engamenent 5:
The Princess Royal later viewed the Shackleton Photography Exhibition at Grytviken Museum.

Engagement 6:
The Princess Royal this evening attended a Reception given by the Government of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands at Everson House.

Engagement 7:
The Princess Royal afterwards attended a Dinner at Carse House, King Edward Point.

Wow... 7 engagement against one, while the program was exactly the same... welcome in the wonders of (creative) statistics...

All you want to count then are the days that the royals worked and not how much they do no those days e.g. 7th January

Andrew

1. The Duke of York today visited West and North Yorkshire to see the impact of the recent floods on homes and local businesses and to meet those affected.
2. His Royal Highness this morning visited flood affected factories in Kirkstall Road, Leeds, West Yorkshire.
3. The Duke of York afterwards attended a briefing on the flooding, at Leeds Civic Hall and was received by Her Majesty's Lord-Lieutenant of West Yorkshire (Dr. Ingrid Roscoe).
4. His Royal Highness this afternoon met members of the local community in Tadcaster, North Yorkshire.
5. The Duke of York afterwards met representatives from the emergency services, York City Council and The Yorkshire Regiment in York who have been involved in the flood relief.
6. His Royal Highness later visited residents and business people in Todmorden, West Yorkshire

Anne

1. The Princess Royal, Honorary President, this morning attended the Oxford Farming Conference at the Examination Schools, 75-81 High Street, Oxford, and was received by the Reverend Canon Glyn Evans (Deputy Lieutenant of Oxfordshire)

To you they both did the same amount of work - 1 engagement.

To me, and others who do a count of the BRF's engagements Andrew clearly did more that day and so it credited accordingly.

 

[Roslyn]

That counting of engagements is a hobby by a certain individual whom keeps track and informs media, taking it over without any critical eye: copy-and-paste and sloppy journalism in optima forma.

Every normal person would count "The Princess Royal made a visit to South Georgia where a varied afternoon and evening program was followed" as one engagement: "Visit to South Georgia". The chap however counted it with lots of creativity:

Engagement 1:
The Princess Royal toured the British Antarctic Survey Research Station.

Engagement 2:
The Princess Royal viewed the Shackleton Memorial.

Engagement 3:
The Princess Royal was greeted by South Georgia Government Officers.

Engagement 4:
The Princess Royal met with the British Antarctic Survey Research Staff at Everson House, King Edward Point.

Engamenent 5:
The Princess Royal later viewed the Shackleton Photography Exhibition at Grytviken Museum.

Engagement 6:
The Princess Royal this evening attended a Reception given by the Government of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands at Everson House.

Engagement 7:
The Princess Royal afterwards attended a Dinner at Carse House, King Edward Point.

Wow... 7 engagement against one, while the program was exactly the same... welcome in the wonders of (creative) statistics...

Prepared by someone as a hobby, and no critical eye is cast over it?

I'd love to know what Her Majesty would say to that suggestion, since it is prepared in the Press Office by an Information Oficer, and she herself casts her eye over the CC and approves it before it is sent to the papers! This information is on the official Monarchy website, which also records those same seven engagements on 16th January, though the wording used is slightly different.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Prepared by someone as a hobby, and no critical eye is cast over it?

I'd love to know what Her Majesty would say to that suggestion, since it is prepared in the Press Office by an Information Oficer, and she herself casts her eye over the CC and approves it before it is sent to the papers! This information is on the official Monarchy website, which also records those same seven engagements on 16th January, though the wording used is slightly different.

I think Duc was saying that the counting was done as a hobby (for me it certainly is and I suspect for Mr O'Donovan as well).

The CC itself is approved by HM of course.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Prince Andrew and Prince Charles keep track of their engagements and release the information each year.

 

[Roslyn]

I think Duc was saying that the counting was done as a hobby (for me it certainly is and I suspect for Mr O'Donovan as well).

The CC itself is approved by HM of course.

I think we might have crossed lines here. I don't know who Mr O'Donovan is. Are we talking about the initial preparation of the CC by the Press Office which is approved by HM, or preparation of a tally for each person made by extracting information published in CC, such as the lists you prepare. I only had in mind the counting for the preparation of the published CC, and that does not seem to be done as a hobby but as part of that person's job.

 

[AdmirerUS]

I think we might have crossed lines here. I don't know who Mr O'Donovan is. Are we talking about the initial preparation of the CC by the Press Office which is approved by HM, or preparation of a tally for each person made by extracting information published in CC, such as the lists you prepare. I only had in mind the counting for the preparation of the published CC, and that does not seem to be done as a hobby but as part of that person's job.

Personally, I refuse to believe that the Queen oversees the CC (excepting the odd occasion when someone needs to be reigned in or when she wants to make sure an old, beloved relative gets a mention).
If she did, there would not be the number of omissions that occur on a regular basis.
I really doubt that she does much more than make sure that the people that do the CC don't let people puff the numbers. I am equally sure that she does not check for omissions. JMO.

 

[cepe]

The BRF do not count engagements. Anyone who does so (me included) sets their own criteria and hopefully remains consistent.

There is nothing to criticise, except when the BRF don't update the CC on line

 

[TLLK]

^^^cepe-Hope that whomever is in charge of the online CC will try to keep it updated on a regular basis.

 

[Osipi]

Personally, I refuse to believe that the Queen oversees the CC (excepting the odd occasion when someone needs to be reigned in or when she wants to make sure an old, beloved relative gets a mention).
If she did, there would not be the number of omissions that occur on a regular basis.
I really doubt that she does much more than make sure that the people that do the CC don't let people puff the numbers. I am equally sure that she does not check for omissions. JMO.

I think its more that HM needs to see and approve any engagements taken on by any of the BRF where the engagement will be an official one representing HM, The Queen. Those that manage the CC, work from this and from what I've seen lately, they're not doing a very good job. So perhaps Anne will be representing the Queen in Timbuktu in October 2016. Before any of the plans are drawn up and the itinerary planned and the press and photographers given heads up, this trip first has to be approved by HM. It may be given the seal of approval months and maybe even years in advance but nothing happens until the Queen gives the nod. The CC is run by the folks primarily with the job of running the CC and they get their information from the folks that manage the things that the Queen has given her royal nod to. Clarence House and KP have their own staffs that manage the things their "boss/es" have on their calendars as given the royal assent to and also the individual events that pertain to the royal's personal interest as well.

The Firm is a well oiled machine but from what I've seen, the CC department leaves room for improvement in its tallying up of things.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The CC is the official record of the doings of the monarchy and is checked each day by HM before it is released for that day. This has been the process since its inception by George III.

As a result we see some things recorded as an official engagement for one royal but not for another e.g. in 2012 Kate presented medals as the Paralympics - an official engagement for her, the next day Eugenie did the same thing - but not classed as official by HM and so no entry for Eugenie.

Every royals engagements are listed there and only there for official records. What is approved in advance is not necessarily what ends up in the CC e.g. last year there were 'future engagements' listed for some royals that didn't then get recorded in the CC and others, on the same day, that weren't listed as FEs that were recorded. The online recording of the CC is done to someone in HM's office - note that they seem to get it out to The Times and the other print media efficiently but had some troubles with just the online record.

Mr O'Donovan is the man who has been doing an annual count since the early - mid 1980s and writes the annual letter to The Times, and other outlets, that is taken as the official 'count'. I do an analysis to compare my figures with his early each year as well. The royals themselves do not do an official count although some, knowing that the public like to see the score on the board, have taken to putting out their own figures. I don't imagine that there is a tally board somewhere in BH with the count going up for each royal - although it would be fun to see.

 

[Queen Camilla]

It is unknown how long Prince Charles or his office has been keeping track but on his website the information is available going back to the 2003-2004 fiscal year..

He might have been keep track as far back as 1980 but never shared this information.

Charles is known to keep everything. He might very well have copies of his daily calendars that list all his engagements.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The CC is archived somewhere back to the original ones - probably in the royal archives themselves but also in the old days when universities and other libraries had past editions of papers like The Times on microfiche they were there as well (I was using the CC from the 1880s at one time for a research assignment I was doing at uni and was accessing The Times at uni using the microfiche and they had ever copy back to around the 1850s but with the advent of digital they destroyed the microfiche believing that The Times itself would allow subscribers to access archives back that far. As I am not a subscriber I don't know how far back a person can go.


The online CC is archived from 1997.

 

[TLLK]

Pity the poor staff member who has to ensure that each tally mark would be legible and that no one is trying to sneak in an extra mark or (gasp) erase one from their family members.

 

[burbankstorylady]

About the Court Circular, with chart of totals showing 2010-2017 and a few years wayback, and of course links of reference

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1But-R6RRw6cO1zLIdrZF4Sf6R0ccy7rEW52MkgMXP-A/edit?usp=sharing

 

[royal_enthusiast]

I’m correct in saying that Diana after her divorce did not appear in the court circular?

 

[Curryong]

By herself probably not. However on 10th March 1997 Prince William was confirmed into the Church of England at St George's and Diana was present, along with Charles, the Queen and several other members of the BRF, and I can't imagine that ceremony or her presence at it would have gone unrecorded in the CC.

 

[Denville]

As I recall her engagments were not noted once she and Charles separated

 

[Queen Claude]

I’m correct in saying that Diana after her divorce did not appear in the court circular?

I don't know for sure but it would not be a surprise if that were the case. Diana's divorce date was August 28, 1996 and her date of death was August 31, 1997. The court circular reports activities by and on behalf of the monarch and it stands to reason that Diana would not be called upon to represent the Queen on a regular basis.

 

[Iluvbertie]

By herself probably not. However on 10th March 1997 Prince William was confirmed into the Church of England at St George's and Diana was present, along with Charles, the Queen and several other members of the BRF, and I can't imagine that ceremony or her presence at it would have gone unrecorded in the CC.

It wasn't in the CC.

Due to my knee issues this year I have been doing a full analysis - way more detailed than my usual analysis and I have done up to the end of May 1997. So far in 1997 there has been no mention of William (from my copying and pasting of the 1997 CC to a word document - easier to read) the only time William is mentioned is for Diana's funeral and the Queen's 50th wedding anniversary service in November.

Diana is mentioned twice - her death is acknowledged and again her funeral a week later.

March 10th was Commonwealth Service Day that the Queen and Charles attended.

Philip was in Mongolia on the 10th March 1997.

Have you the right date or year?

Philip was overseas for almost all of March 1997 - literally a world tour lasting three weeks.