The British Royal Family: Race & Racism

[Jacknch]

In light of recent discussion and inspite of our reservations,
this thread has been created in order to discuss the issue of race and racism and the British Royal Family.

However, this thread will be moderated carefully and the following rules will apply to the thread without exception:

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the thread will be closed and not reopened.

[ACO]

So thoughts on Princess Michael of Kent wearing a Moor broach to the lunch knowing she would be meeting Meghan the first time. Seems a bit insensitive, no? Oh well.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by ACO

So thoughts on Princess Michael of Kent wearing a Moor broach to the lunch knowing she would be meeting Meghan the first time. Seems a bit insensitive, no? Oh well.

Can you be more specific? I've no clue what a Moor brooch is and what its relation to Meghan may be.

[ACO]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Can you be more specific? I've no clue what a Moor brooch is and what its relation to Meghan may be.

They are somewhat controversial and many deem racist figurines. It is a big debate about them. Just was surprised to see her having one on her coat knowing Meghan who is half black was in attendance. Kind of threw me but also didn't knowing her reputation.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Can you be more specific? I've no clue what a Moor brooch is and what its relation to Meghan may be.

Moor is an old name for dark skinned North Africans. Think of the Moors that ruled Spain who was often of Berber extraction ie not Arabs.

[cepe]

Originally Posted by ACO

They are somewhat controversial and many deem racist figurines. It is a big debate about them. Just was surprised to see her having one on her coat knowing Meghan who is half black was in attendance. Kind of threw me but also didn't knowing her reputation.

I agree with OSipi, I just cannot see the link and this tweet makes it even less clear.

The only "Moors" that I know of are North African Arabs whose extensive empire included Spain ( 711).

And I cant see a connection there at all.

[Gaudete]

People will try to find unpleasantness in everything it seems. Even a brooch.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by ACO

They are somewhat controversial and many deem racist figurines. It is a big debate about them. Just was surprised to see her having one on her coat knowing Meghan who is half black was in attendance. Kind of threw me but also didn't knowing her reputation.

Actually I was wondering if it represents one of the Magi aka The Three Kings and therefore would be appropriate for Christmas. Balthazar is traditionally depicted as being of African origin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balthazar_(Magus)

[ACO]

Originally Posted by JR76

Moor is an old name for dark skinned North Africans. Think of the Moors that ruled Spain who was often of Berber extraction ie not Arabs.

Yeah. I don't want a big debate about it so I will bow out. If definitely rubbed me the wrong way though. It is what it is. I can see how others not bothered by it though. I have a different history with it.

[Gaudete]

Originally Posted by TLLK

Actually I was wondering if it represents one of the Magai aka The Three Kings and therefore would be appropriate for Christmas.

This seems more likely IMO.

I have to say however on the OP, the suggestion that Princess Michael would have chosen jewellery specifically to make a nasty racial slur against someone is not only unlikely as it is unfair. I’m not sure what’s meant by “her reputation” but I absolutely do not believe for one minute that Her Royal Highness would have gone to such great lengths to make a statement I don’t believe is in her nature to make.

[cepe]

Originally Posted by Gaudete

This seems more likely IMO.

I have to say however on the OP, the suggestion that Princess Michael would have chosen jewellery specifically to make a nasty racial slur against someone is not only unlikely as it is unfair. I’m not sure what’s meant by “her reputation” but I absolutely do not believe for one minute that Her Royal Highness would have gone to such great lengths to make a statement I don’t believe is in her nature to make.

Well said. I don't think she would do that either.

[Curbside]

I looked for a photo, but didn't see one. It seems like the family has been pretty accepting, so I would hope no one is engaging in racist gestures towards Meghan (and by extension, Harry).

[ACO]

Well some media has picked up on it. Below is an example. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding. Either way I think the luncheon was a success.

https://twitter.com/MonarchyUK/statu...61856895504389

[Osipi]

I know who the Moors are as a people but, not knowing jewelry well, I thought perhaps Moor could have been a designer or something.

I don't think anything can really be read into Princess Michael wearing it. There are many explanations possible along with the fact that PM may have just really liked the brooch. If anything, I think Meghan would have found it to be interesting.

I also wouldn't put any real money behind the belief that this Christmas lunch would have been the first time Meghan met Princess Michael. They both live on KP grounds and could have already met. Harry did say that she's met quite a few members of his family already.

And so ends a tempest in a teapot. Now I need to make me some real tea.

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by ACO

Well some media has picked up on it. Below is an example. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding. Either way I think the luncheon was a success.

https://twitter.com/MonarchyUK/statu...61856895504389

Hmmmm....Princess Michael is well-known for being antagonistic and likes to stir...

[Zaira]

I agree with ACO. When I saw that picture with the brooch (before I saw any commentary on it) I literally gasped and was shocked no one had brought it up.

I can't imagine I am the only POC who saw that and immediately thought of the racial undertones.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by ACO

Yeah. I don't want a big debate about it so I will bow out. If definitely rubbed me the wrong way though. It is what it is. I can see how others not bothered by it though. I have a different history with it.

Given that the Moors are often depicted with distinct African features I can definitely see why it bothers you. Meghan or not it's not something that's entirely correct in my opinion. That said I'm sure Marie-Christine wasn't wearing it to make a dig at Meghan. She might hold controversial opinions at times but I don't think she's rascist.

[Osipi]

Marie Christine could also have selected and worn the brooch in *honor* of Meghan's biracial heritage. To me this seems so much more likely than a person deliberately purchasing/or having a brooch just for the prime purpose of offending people let alone a future family member at the Queen's luncheon.

We all wear things we like that represent ourselves sometimes. Election time you wear a button supporting your candidate. Christmas time you wear your best holiday ugly sweater or a Christmas tree brooch. Royals on tour wear things that reflect the country they're visiting.

People will make out of it what they wish to though. Its the way of the world.

[jacqui24]

Yea, Meghan and her possible feelings on this aside, that’s just not a good move as a member of the royal family, even a distant one.

[Zaira]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Marie Christine could also have selected and worn the brooch in *honor* of Meghan's biracial heritage. To me this seems so much more likely than a person deliberately purchasing/or having a brooch just for the prime purpose of offending people let alone a future family member at the Queen's luncheon.

People will make out of it what they wish to though. Its the way of the world.

Are you kidding me? The racist origins of these kinds of pieces is extremely well known. There is nothing "honoring" about them. I am going to go out an say it, whether or not this was intentional, it was certainly ignorant and still offensive. This is not something you wear to honor a POC of black ancestry.

I can already tell this is a thread I will need to bow out of.