The British Royal Family: Race & Racism


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Jacknch

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In light of recent discussion and inspite of our reservations,
this thread has been created in order to discuss the issue of race and racism and the British Royal Family.

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So thoughts on Princess Michael of Kent wearing a Moor broach to the lunch knowing she would be meeting Meghan the first time. Seems a bit insensitive, no? Oh well.
 
So thoughts on Princess Michael of Kent wearing a Moor broach to the lunch knowing she would be meeting Meghan the first time. Seems a bit insensitive, no? Oh well.

Can you be more specific? I've no clue what a Moor brooch is and what its relation to Meghan may be.
 
Can you be more specific? I've no clue what a Moor brooch is and what its relation to Meghan may be.

They are somewhat controversial and many deem racist figurines. It is a big debate about them. Just was surprised to see her having one on her coat knowing Meghan who is half black was in attendance. Kind of threw me but also didn't knowing her reputation.
 
Can you be more specific? I've no clue what a Moor brooch is and what its relation to Meghan may be.
Moor is an old name for dark skinned North Africans. Think of the Moors that ruled Spain who was often of Berber extraction ie not Arabs.
 
They are somewhat controversial and many deem racist figurines. It is a big debate about them. Just was surprised to see her having one on her coat knowing Meghan who is half black was in attendance. Kind of threw me but also didn't knowing her reputation.

I agree with OSipi, I just cannot see the link and this tweet makes it even less clear.

The only "Moors" that I know of are North African Arabs whose extensive empire included Spain ( 711).

And I cant see a connection there at all.
 
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People will try to find unpleasantness in everything it seems. Even a brooch.
 
They are somewhat controversial and many deem racist figurines. It is a big debate about them. Just was surprised to see her having one on her coat knowing Meghan who is half black was in attendance. Kind of threw me but also didn't knowing her reputation.

Actually I was wondering if it represents one of the Magi aka The Three Kings and therefore would be appropriate for Christmas. Balthazar is traditionally depicted as being of African origin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balthazar_(Magus)
 
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Moor is an old name for dark skinned North Africans. Think of the Moors that ruled Spain who was often of Berber extraction ie not Arabs.

Yeah. I don't want a big debate about it so I will bow out. If definitely rubbed me the wrong way though. It is what it is. I can see how others not bothered by it though. I have a different history with it.
 
Actually I was wondering if it represents one of the Magai aka The Three Kings and therefore would be appropriate for Christmas.


This seems more likely IMO.

I have to say however on the OP, the suggestion that Princess Michael would have chosen jewellery specifically to make a nasty racial slur against someone is not only unlikely as it is unfair. I’m not sure what’s meant by “her reputation” but I absolutely do not believe for one minute that Her Royal Highness would have gone to such great lengths to make a statement I don’t believe is in her nature to make.
 
This seems more likely IMO.

I have to say however on the OP, the suggestion that Princess Michael would have chosen jewellery specifically to make a nasty racial slur against someone is not only unlikely as it is unfair. I’m not sure what’s meant by “her reputation” but I absolutely do not believe for one minute that Her Royal Highness would have gone to such great lengths to make a statement I don’t believe is in her nature to make.

Well said. I don't think she would do that either.
 
I looked for a photo, but didn't see one. It seems like the family has been pretty accepting, so I would hope no one is engaging in racist gestures towards Meghan (and by extension, Harry).
 
I know who the Moors are as a people but, not knowing jewelry well, I thought perhaps Moor could have been a designer or something.

I don't think anything can really be read into Princess Michael wearing it. There are many explanations possible along with the fact that PM may have just really liked the brooch. If anything, I think Meghan would have found it to be interesting.

I also wouldn't put any real money behind the belief that this Christmas lunch would have been the first time Meghan met Princess Michael. They both live on KP grounds and could have already met. Harry did say that she's met quite a few members of his family already.

And so ends a tempest in a teapot. Now I need to make me some real tea. :D
 
I agree with ACO. When I saw that picture with the brooch (before I saw any commentary on it) I literally gasped and was shocked no one had brought it up.

I can't imagine I am the only POC who saw that and immediately thought of the racial undertones.
 
Yeah. I don't want a big debate about it so I will bow out. If definitely rubbed me the wrong way though. It is what it is. I can see how others not bothered by it though. I have a different history with it.
Given that the Moors are often depicted with distinct African features I can definitely see why it bothers you. Meghan or not it's not something that's entirely correct in my opinion. That said I'm sure Marie-Christine wasn't wearing it to make a dig at Meghan. She might hold controversial opinions at times but I don't think she's rascist.
 
Marie Christine could also have selected and worn the brooch in *honor* of Meghan's biracial heritage. To me this seems so much more likely than a person deliberately purchasing/or having a brooch just for the prime purpose of offending people let alone a future family member at the Queen's luncheon.

We all wear things we like that represent ourselves sometimes. Election time you wear a button supporting your candidate. Christmas time you wear your best holiday ugly sweater or a Christmas tree brooch. Royals on tour wear things that reflect the country they're visiting.

People will make out of it what they wish to though. Its the way of the world.
 
Yea, Meghan and her possible feelings on this aside, that’s just not a good move as a member of the royal family, even a distant one.
 
Marie Christine could also have selected and worn the brooch in *honor* of Meghan's biracial heritage. To me this seems so much more likely than a person deliberately purchasing/or having a brooch just for the prime purpose of offending people let alone a future family member at the Queen's luncheon.

People will make out of it what they wish to though. Its the way of the world.

Are you kidding me? The racist origins of these kinds of pieces is extremely well known. :bang: There is nothing "honoring" about them. I am going to go out an say it, whether or not this was intentional, it was certainly ignorant and still offensive. This is not something you wear to honor a POC of black ancestry.

I can already tell this is a thread I will need to bow out of.
 
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Marie Christine could also have selected and worn the brooch in *honor* of Meghan's biracial heritage. To me this seems so much more likely than a person deliberately purchasing/or having a brooch just for the prime purpose of offending people let alone a future family member at the Queen's luncheon.

We all wear things we like that represent ourselves sometimes. Election time you wear a button supporting your candidate. Christmas time you wear your best holiday ugly sweater or a Christmas tree brooch. Royals on tour wear things that reflect the country they're visiting.

People will make out of it what they wish to though. Its the way of the world.

I highly doubt Princess Michael’s thoughts on this really matter to Meghan and I’m not even on either side of whether she did on purpose to offend or if it’s to honor or simply a faux pas. However, the fact that this type of symbol has been controversial in terms of what it represents to people of color in general just makes this a bad decision for a member of royal family to wear so openly.
 
I highly doubt Princess Michael’s thoughts on this really matter to Meghan and I’m not even on either side of whether she did on purpose to offend or if it’s to honor or simply a faux pas. However, the fact that this type of symbol has been controversial in terms of what it represents to people of color in general just makes this a bad decision for a member of royal family to wear so openly.

Before this convo started, I had no idea that this would be offensive to people of colour. In my family, the Christmas nativity set had Balthazar as a Moor - so did my local church. The idea that many races and different social positions is key in the Nativity scenes.

At no time in the UK have I been told that it is offensive.

I accept all that you say.
 
Oh dear I don’t know anything about the brooch but if there was the slightest chance it could appear to be racist then she shouldn’t have worn it.
 
My apologies also for my statements here. I had no clue even what a Moor brooch was, how it was perceived or anything about them whatsoever.

The more I read, the more I think Princess Michael should have put more thought into what she was wearing when she got dressed. We can't know what she was thinking but obviously, she's made a mistake. Balthazar may have been a wise Moorish magi but Marie Christine didn't think too wisely.
 
Before this convo started, I had no idea that this would be offensive to people of colour. In my family, the Christmas nativity set had Balthazar as a Moor - so did my local church. The idea that many races and different social positions is key in the Nativity scenes.

At no time in the UK have I been told that it is offensive.

I accept all that you say.

I think for me its more the design which is very similar to figurines, jewelry and styles that were once in vogue that had very racist social understandings to them. Whether it was intentional or not (maybe she just likes St Balthazar), as someone of black descent myself my first thought was to kinda recoil when I saw it.

Having a nativity scene that depicts the wise man as a POC or Moor is different than this.
 
Having a nativity scene that depicts the wise man as a POC or Moor is different than this.

The more I think about it, the more this makes sense. Why wear just one wise man when there were three if it was meant to reflect the Christmas season?
 
I think for me its more the design which is very similar to figurines, jewelry and styles that were once in vogue that had very racist social understandings to them. Whether it was intentional or not (maybe she just likes St Balthazar), as someone of black descent myself my first thought was to kinda recoil when I saw it.

Having a nativity scene that depicts the wise man as a POC or Moor is different than this.

Thank you - this makes sense. I remember in the 80s (in the UK) there were brooches made of head/shoulders of different people - I especially remember Mardi Gras masked figures. This reminds me of that style and that era. It certainly isn't a modern piece. Butler and Wilson made them.
 
Are you kidding me? The racist origins of these kinds of pieces is extremely well known. :bang: There is nothing "honoring" about them. I am going to go out an say it, whether or not this was intentional, it was certainly ignorant and still offensive. This is not something you wear to honor a POC of black ancestry.

I can already tell this is a thread I will need to bow out of.

I agree, but guess who will have the last laugh on the 19th of May, 2018? All is well!
 
Before this convo started, I had no idea that this would be offensive to people of colour. In my family, the Christmas nativity set had Balthazar as a Moor - so did my local church. The idea that many races and different social positions is key in the Nativity scenes.

At no time in the UK have I been told that it is offensive.

I accept all that you say.

Most African-Americans would read the brooch along the same lines as a traditional lawn jockey. Stating that it's meant to represent one of the Magi earns a serious side-eye.

I have no idea why the woman would wear something like that, since it seems to me that on such occasions you would want to seem as welcoming as possible, and not introduce even a whiff of prejudice.
 
My apologies also for my statements here. I had no clue even what a Moor brooch was, how it was perceived or anything about them whatsoever.

The more I read, the more I think Princess Michael should have put more thought into what she was wearing when she got dressed. We can't know what she was thinking but obviously, she's made a mistake. Balthazar may have been a wise Moorish magi but Marie Christine didn't think too wisely.

No I get it. It's very different for POC. It also doesn't help that she has had incidents in the pass that some have deemed racially insensitive, so seeing this immediately went to being something negative. She might have have a different idea. Maybe she was trying to be supportive as they can be seen that way (though mostly not) and this just backfired. I'm not here to judge her but just show how it rubbed me wrong at first glance. It's controversial for a reason.
 
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