The British Royal Family: Race & Racism

[Countessmeout]

I have to agree. Honestly if it was one of the Yorks who had done what Harry did, they would not have been forgiven. Considering Bea gets thrown under the bus for wearing trainers to church. Its easier to condemn the family scapegoats. Princess Michael and the Yorks are easy targets sadly.

At the time of the Harry incident, there was certainly a large outcry though. Religious, and even political leaders voiced in on it. It wasn't simply brushed off as being a stupid 20 year old. People even called for him to be thrown out of Sandhurst for the stupidity.

Prince Harry faces outcry at Nazi outfit - Telegraph

While I found the brooch distasteful, I don't think Princess Michael meant it at all as an insult or comment towards Meghan. Even if she took offense to Meghan for some reason, insulting Meghan at the queen's Christmas lunch seems foolish for anyone.

I also think Meghan is mature enough to recognize that. She likely has some idea about the jewelry in question. I suspect the people who are attacking PMK for wearing it, are more upset for Meghan then Meghan was.

 

[victor1319]

Unjust Thread!

I feel this thread in itself is simply unjust.

In the end a Windsor prince marries

a divorced girl, which happens to be an actress

and a person of colour.

These are many firsts for the royal family! And Harry's choice would find some astonishment in every "ordinary" family too.

But Harry will marry Meghan! And that is all that is of importance!

 

[Zaira]

It is so tiresome for posters to continue to dismiss racist acts and the attendant backlash they garner as more of "PC culture" or people making much ado about nothing.

The days of people of color ignoring racist acts to get by are over. If you find yourself defending such acts, dismissing the people calling them out or minimizing the nature of the acts, I can only hope you take a moment to reflect on your own bias and prejudices.

As it is, the reaction to Meghan proves more and more we are far from being a ''post race society'' and that IMO the royal watcher community isn't prepared as a whole to welcome the newer and more diverse voices who have taken an interest in the BRF thanks to Meghan.

 

[Jacknch]

A couple of off topic posts have been edited/deleted together with subsequent responses. Thank you.

 

[Osipi]

While it is very true that two wrongs don't make a right, two lefts may get one to the right path though.

I'm a firm believer that no matter how negative something seems to be, if we really look for it, there are positives to be found. This is true for me with the whole Broochgate debacle.

Because Princess Michael of Kent wore a brooch to a Christmas family luncheon (intentional or unintentional), it was noticed. It was deemed to be offensive to people of color of which Meghan just happens to be one. It has gone viral around the world with major networks picking up on the story. Princess Michael has publicly apologized which, in my eyes, any intelligent person would have realized they should do. We're talking about it still.

The best thing, for me, that has come out about this is that its started the conversation. We see by just the furor that has been raised globally that racism isn't well tolerated by the majority of people. That is a far cry from what I've witnessed over the past few years here in the US where racial violence has been major news.

We could go back to the time of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert and see how, historically, Albert put a lot of his weight into trying to abolish slavery in the UK. We can look to a whole lot of people such as Martin Luther King who was a mastermind of campaigning for civil rights. Nelson Mandela fought passionately to end apartheid in Africa. There are many out there that have done this. We need more heroes like this today. Are we going to be among them?

So, in a way I'd like to thank Princess Michael for inadvertently, without even having the specific aim in mind, for starting the conversation about the elephant in the room. It just takes one small spark to ignite a fire.

 

[Countessmeout]

It is so tiresome for posters to continue to dismiss racist acts and the attendant backlash they garner as more of "PC culture" or people making much ado about nothing.

The days of people of color ignoring racist acts to get by are over. If you find yourself defending such acts, dismissing the people calling them out or minimizing the nature of the acts, I can only hope you take a moment to reflect on your own bias and prejudices.

As it is, the reaction to Meghan proves more and more we are far from being a ''post race society'' and that IMO the royal watcher community isn't prepared as a whole to welcome the newer and more diverse voices who have taken an interest in the BRF thanks to Meghan.

No one is dismissing it.

But there is a difference between poor taste and being outright racist. There is no evidence that PMK is a racist who wore the brooch as a rude in your face comment towards Meghan. Which is what it is being portrayed as. That she wore it as a slap in the face to the new mixed race member of the family.

The reality is that when those jewels were made, it was a different mindset. It was not meant as a racist comment. People bought them, like you buy a fake Chinese vase, as a way of embracing a foreign culture. Fortunately we have moved on, and as a society we can see why this is not correct. But for the older generation, not saying it is right because I am not, it might not occur to them wearing such a piece is insulting to anyone.

 

[Lady Gudgeon]

Regarding the 'Tempest in a Teacup' that [briefly] RAGED in the ' meejah' over Princess Michaels decision to wear a brooch depicting a 'Moor' to the first Royal Christmas Lunch attended by Ms Markle in Britain...

Some [mostly foreigners] are OUTRAGED, citing it as clear evidence of racism against Ms Markle..

'Difference' and the 'exotic' has been celebrated in art [especially in 'decorative art' such as jewelry] for centuries..
Consider the massive vogue for Chinoiserie or [less well known] 'Turquerie', celebrations of little understood 'far-away' places that captured European imaginations,at a time when very few people travelled and got 'first-hand' knowledge of the wider World.

Should these often charming, often naive representations of the 'other' be put away forever because their original purpose [to intrigue, enchant and give pleasure] has been misunderstood ?

I really don't think so..
The brooch depicted a man wearing a Turban, but were Muslims or Hindus or Sikhs incensed ?

There is not a shred of evidence that Princess Michael intended to offend, that Ms Markle was offended ,or that ANYONE within the BRF or in wider Britain beyond is anything other than delighted for the affianced, and at Ms Markle's decision to make this country her home.

But there is also no evidence that she was NOT intending to offend or 'put Meghan in her place' or whatever. People see the incident in different ways based on their feelings about Pss Michael, their assumptions about her motivations, and her own past behavior.

None of us can read her mind or know her motivations so one assumption (intending to offend) is just as valid as another assumption (not intending to offend).

 

[Lady Gudgeon]

I’m pleased with the decision by the moderator team to not gloss over or hide from this issue. Ignoring racism doesn’t help people learn to do better. Honest and open conversation is important.

+1 even though I've been disheartened to read some of the posts on this thread

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

It is so tiresome for posters to continue to dismiss racist acts and the attendant backlash they garner as more of "PC culture" or people making much ado about nothing.

The days of people of color ignoring racist acts to get by are over. If you find yourself defending such acts, dismissing the people calling them out or minimizing the nature of the acts, I can only hope you take a moment to reflect on your own bias and prejudices.

As it is, the reaction to Meghan proves more and more we are far from being a ''post race society'' and that IMO the royal watcher community isn't prepared as a whole to welcome the newer and more diverse voices who have taken an interest in the BRF thanks to Meghan.

I absolutely agree. I hope that Meghan's arrival into the BRF can help raise awareness of the fact that racism is still very prevalent in society, but sadly it seems that we still have a long way to go.

 

[Osipi]

There is also a level that it is being pushed to which seems unneccary. In an attempt to be 'inclusive' things have gone far. Its not acceptable for Caucasian children to dress up as Moana, Mulan or Pochahontas for Halloween, even if their favorite character. But it is acceptable for an African American child to dress up as Elsa, Cinderella, Belle and other Caucasian characters. There is this move to remake movies with African American actors, like making Idris the new James bond. But if one suggested that we take a typically African character and make them Caucasian, that would be racist. There does need to be a balance here.

This is a very interesting point because its my opinion that children are born color blind. Racism and prejudices are taught by the actions of their parents. This is where it can begin to change. All little girls love Elsa or Moana or Mulan or Pocahontas for who they are character wise and not because of what they are. Disney has taken the step to embrace different ethnicities in their work and the children obviously love it. Its the parents that raised the concerns by drawing on their own prejudices that were taught to them as children and a society that deems itself to be "politically correct".

It will be the little children that lead us into a more acceptable way of looking at our world and all the people in it. *IF* we allow them to. Perhaps it will be more of a focus with a child of the British Royal Family being of mixed race. I sincerely hope so.

 

[Princess Larisa]

While I found the brooch distasteful, I don't think Princess Michael meant it at all as an insult or comment towards Meghan. Even if she took offense to Meghan for some reason, insulting Meghan at the queen's Christmas lunch seems foolish for anyone.

This, so much this.
There is no possible way that Princess Michael would ever risk loosing her invitations to Trooping, State Dinners, Ascot, royal weddings, etc. by intentionally insulting the grandson of the current monarch and son/brother of two future monarchs, imo. Even if she was a ‘’raging closet racist’’, she would never in a million years show it in this setting.

While we're on topic, I found this very interesting:
Dolce And Gabbana Clarifies Moorish Jewellery Inspiration | British Vogue
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/26/dolce-and-gabbana-racist-earrings-_n_1914455.html

 

[Zaira]

[...]...people have been dismissive in this thread about the Princess Michael's decision to wear that particular piece of jewelry. Many things that were done in the past are not acceptable now, so why use that as an excuse? See the issue with ivory furniture and adornment for example. Or see the issues with blackface as a form of entertainment. Just because it was once the norm to wear such pieces as fashion does not negate their long racist history and undertones.

 

[M. Payton]

people have been dismissive in this thread about the Princess Michael's decision to wear that particular piece of jewelry. Many things that were done in the past are not acceptable now, so why use that as an excuse? [/B]See the issue with ivory furniture and adornment for example. Or see the issues with blackface as a form of entertainment. Just because it was once the norm to wear such pieces as fashion does not negate their long racist history and undertones.

Yes some here have been dismissive on the brooch yet I look at it like this, we here and on this entire earth are each of us entitled to our own opinion here whether we like someone else's or not we still have our very own opinion here......that is a given. I do not expect anyone to agree with me ever nor do I want anyone to change what they believe in because of what I say......to me it is all about *respecting* each of us to have our own opinion here and not jump on a bandwagon to please others. I do not want or expect the world to think alike for then how would we learn, grow and mature and make better decisions in life.

Many done in the past are not acceptable today.........that is called growth and maturing in our society and this thread is all the better for it as that is just what it is doing here, we each are teaching in our own way to see things differently and learn from each other......that to me is a damn good thing for all of us.

The past is just that ...*The Past* and we should never forget the past ever yet do not let it take away from what we have now...*Today and the Present* for that is how we as a society learn from each other.

Cheers for a very Happy New Year............

 

[Lady Gudgeon]

No one here is trying to prove racism within the BRF.

The gist of what has been said implies insensitivity, not intentional, on the part of PMK, and hopes that the feelings of MM and others are not hurt by it. That’s all.

Unless you're Pss Michael using a secret identity, you can't possibly know - and neither can anyone else - what her intentions were, good or bad. None of us know what's in her heart or how she feels about Meghan or other black people (except based on her own past actions and comments).

I don't understand how people on this thread (or any thread, really) can state as fact or with such finality what members of the royal family think or believe or how they feel toward Meghan, or even how they've treated her in private. None of us know anything - the BRF's whole thing is not allowing the public to know their personal feelings or beliefs!

Let's just say, the public may be somewhat more wary to give HER out of all people in the BRF, some leeway on this... Her elitist & supermacist convictions have long been documented. With her reputation you'd think she wouldn't opt for this controversial jewelry style. After all, this is not a brooch she wears all the time... it was specifically chosen for the occasion.

+1 Chloep - she has a history of saying racially insensitive things to and about black people...and then chooses to wear this brooch - which she apparently hasn't worn in public before - on the day she's going to meet Harry's black/mixed fiancee? Of course, we don't know what she was really thinking, but to me, past history matters.

I think that the benefit of the doubt has more to do with how much you like the "offender". If the offender is young and you like them, then they are young and dumb. If the offender is older and you like them then they are a product of their generation.

Personally I believe in condemning the act and hope that the offender will acknowledge the offense and cease the behavior, but I bristle when, dare I say, a lynch mob mentality ensues amongst those who are offended by the act.

Or by those who think the act wasn't offensive. Some of the posts in this thread by those defending Pss Michael have been pretty rude toward other posters IMO (calling replies naive, simplistic, and ridiculous, e.g.).

 

[Rudolph]

A view from Britain’s first black peeress


“Rift at Longleat over 'racism' towards Britain's first black marchioness

The heir to Longleat claims says his mother was banned from his wedding to Emma McQuiston, who will become Britain's first black marchioness, after hurtful comments about the family's "400 years of bloodline"



Read more: Rift at Longleat over 'racism' towards Britain's first black marchioness - Telegraph

 

[M. Payton]

Thanks Rudolph for the article.........and people talk about Meghan and her family......and this is going on still..........heaven's don't know what to say, am speechless for the first time ever.

I just don't get people having ***** ideas about racism ever....we are born with the color our parents gave us, don't like it then take it up with them .....get over it and respect each other until they do otherwise to you personally......from an ancient ole crone here....

 

[sophie25]

But there is also no evidence that she was NOT intending to offend or 'put Meghan in her place' or whatever. People see the incident in different ways based on their feelings about Pss Michael, their assumptions about her motivations, and her own past behavior.

None of us can read her mind or know her motivations so one assumption (intending to offend) is just as valid as another assumption (not intending to offend).

Well that's why we have a system of innocent until PROVEN guilty. There's no proof that Pm wore the brooch to be malicious and she has came out and denied that was her intention so unless anything else to the contrary comes out we have to believe that and move on.

 

[Ish]

Several off topic posts have been deleted. Please remember this thread is about Race and Racism, not the issue of divorce.

 

[Missjersey]

Most of us are very conscious getting ready to go someplace "special". I don't think Princess Michael would deliberately wear anything to annoy Her Majesty. Hopefully people grow from past bad behavior and mistakes made. People who have taken offense in the brooch and what it symbolizes to them, I respect, as I haven't walked in their shoes. Unfortunately, I do believe racism is alive and listening to each other and working together is the only way to get the elephant out of the room. For what it's worth, I've read and reread some of these threads only to find myself reading and rereading Letter from a Birmingham Jail. If you swallow those words, you'll feel the lump in your throat. To anyone that's been hurt, I am so sorry.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

As a black female who adores history tend to give certain people from certain backgrounds "passes". For example I have heard that the Queen Mother had racist ideas and said some racist things; for me being born in 1900 is her get out of jail free card.
I admit I would love to know how the members of the RF feel about a biracial person marrying into their family but I doubt we will ever know for sure. People will point to public gatherings and smiles to Champion the notion that they fully accept it but considering the ages of some members I just can't help but to wonder. PLEASE do not take my thoughts as in anyway trying to be negative to the RF it is just wondering on my part.

 

[Rudolph]

I remember by mother who grew up In England asking my sons if they still sang “negro sprituals” in school

‘Racist’ chimed my junior thought police.

 

[Missjersey]

As a black female who adores history tend to give certain people from certain backgrounds "passes". For example I have heard that the Queen Mother had racist ideas and said some racist things; for me being born in 1900 is her get out of jail free card.
I admit I would love to know how the members of the RF feel about a biracial person marrying into their family but I doubt we will ever know for sure. People will point to public gatherings and smiles to Champion the notion that they fully accept it but considering the ages of some members I just can't help but to wonder. PLEASE do not take my thoughts as in anyway trying to be negative to the RF it is just wondering on my part.

Your thoughts aren’t negative XeniaCasaraghi—I’ve wondered about the same thing and agree, we’ll never know. I’ve often thought the Queen Mother racist and also wonder what she thought of the 60s and civil rights.

 

[Abbigail]

No one is dismissing it.

But there is a difference between poor taste and being outright racist. There is no evidence that PMK is a racist who wore the brooch as a rude in your face comment towards Meghan. Which is what it is being portrayed as. That she wore it as a slap in the face to the new mixed race member of the family.

The reality is that when those jewels were made, it was a different mindset. It was not meant as a racist comment. People bought them, like you buy a fake Chinese vase, as a way of embracing a foreign culture. Fortunately we have moved on, and as a society we can see why this is not correct. But for the older generation, not saying it is right because I am not, it might not occur to them wearing such a piece is insulting to anyone.

There is also a level that it is being pushed to which seems unneccary. In an attempt to be 'inclusive' things have gone far. Its not acceptable for Caucasian children to dress up as Moana, Mulan or Pochahontas for Halloween, even if their favorite character. But it is acceptable for an African American child to dress up as Elsa, Cinderella, Belle and other Caucasian characters. There is this move to remake movies with African American actors, like making Idris the new James bond. But if one suggested that we take a typically African character and make them Caucasian, that would be racist. There does need to be a balance here.

Actually, no. You've presented a false equivalence. The issue here is not only one of representation (and that is certainly not an issue for white people) but also, that race/culture is, more often than not, an important part of the identity of people of color. "Whiteness", on the other hand, is almost always seen as universal, as representation for any/all peoples...in other words, not a definitive or vital trait. Now, I think we're veering off topic here, even for this thread, but I think it's important to note that the supposed lack of balance is due to centuries of racism and racial imbalance. And that can't be remedied simply by advocating for balance.

As for Princess Michael, her choice in jewelry was, at the very least, racially sensitive. She isn't deserving of a pass and should have known better. As an adult, it's her responsibility to know better, to educate herself, to learn from the past. As it stands, she learned the hard way. Lets just hope she truly has learned from this unfortunate situation.

 

[VictoriaB]

Gary Lewis is Maori and has been married into the extended family for some time now. So far the walls of Buckingham Palace have not caved in and the monarchy still stands. He has been invited to Buckingham Palace receptions when the Queen has entertained the All Blacks. The Kiwis on here can correct me but I always understood Maori to be people of colour. If my understanding is correct, Megan will not be the the first person of colour to marry into the British Royal Family although she will be the first African American.

Although people will point out there is a distinction between the importance of the daughter of the Duke of Gloucester and the son of the Prince of Wales, Harry is only slightly more likely to become monarch than Davina, especially now that Kate and William are expecting their third.

 

[MARG]

As a black female who adores history tend to give certain people from certain backgrounds "passes". For example I have heard that the Queen Mother had racist ideas and said some racist things; for me being born in 1900 is her get out of jail free card.
I admit I would love to know how the members of the RF feel about a biracial person marrying into their family but I doubt we will ever know for sure. People will point to public gatherings and smiles to Champion the notion that they fully accept it but considering the ages of some members I just can't help but to wonder. PLEASE do not take my thoughts as in anyway trying to be negative to the RF it is just wondering on my part.

Yes, the QM was a woman of her age. My father told me how his mother was panicked when she heard the Maori Battalion was returning home after WWII and was sure "we were all going to be murdered in our beds". But seriously, Meghan will not be the first bi-racial, bi-cultural person to marry into the extended BRF. The Lady Davina Windsor, daughter of HM 's cousin HRH Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester married Gary Lewis, a builder and sheep shearer who is part Maori.

 

[Rudolph]

Things are starting to really get ugly

Scandal-hit Ukip leader Henry Bolton was plunged into a fresh crisis last night after it was revealed that his glamour model girlfriend made racist remarks about Meghan Markle.

Mr Bolton, 54, was already facing calls for his resignation after he left his wife for 25-year-old Jo Marney.

Now The Mail on Sunday can reveal shocking messages in which Ms Marney says that Prince Harry’s ‘black American’ fiancee will ‘taint’ the Royal Family with ‘her seed’ and pave the way for a ‘black king’.

Ms Marney also says that she would never have sex with ‘a negro’ because they are ‘ugly’.

Ukip leader's girlfriend's racist Meghan Markle messages | Daily Mail Online

 

[Terri Terri]

Starting to get ugly???? Things were ugly when the relationship was revealed in 2016!!!!!

 

[jacqui24]

Things are starting to really get ugly


Ukip leader's girlfriend's racist Meghan Markle messages | Daily Mail Online

Ugly for whom? Jo Marney? Yes it has.

 

[Princess Larisa]

I ‘’love’’ how people are shocked that a UKIP leader would have a racist girlfriend. The whole party is based on racist tenets.

 

[Osipi]

Things are starting to really get ugly

That article is not even worthy of lining a bird cage. Stuff like that shouldn't be "news" or repeated anywhere. It serves absolutely no purpose but as click bait.

Another black mark for the Daily Fail.