The British Nobility thread 1: Ending 2022

[HereditaryPrincess]

Lady Celia Vestey, godmother of Prince Harry, has died:

Décès de lady Celia Vestey – Noblesse & Royautés

 

[Countessmeout]

She was the second wife of Baron Vestey, she married him in 1981. He served as the Master of the horses for the queen from 1999-2018.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/12/prince-harry-godmother-lady-celia-vestey

She was introduced to her husband by Diana's brother in law Robert Fellowes.

She has three children, and four grandchildren (2 each from her older children). Her eldest son William is his father's as both of her stepchildren are daughters.

 

[Durham]

An American aristocrat's guide to various estates:

https://t.co/VHp6gkIZxY?amp=1

Apparently there was nothing of interest for Queen Mary to nick at Eastnor. The family are rather amused by their distinction.

 

[AC21091968]

Margaret Tebbit, Lady Tebbit, a nurse and survivor of 1984 Brighton bombing, passed away on 19th December. She was the wife of Normal Tebbit, Baron Tebbit, who served as the then Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.

Lady Tebbit, campaigner and former nurse badly injured in the 1984 Brighton bombing – obituary
Cared for by her husband Norman after the blast at the Conservative Party conference, she went on to champion research into spinal injuries
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituar...ner-former-nurse-badly-injured-1984-brighton/

Condolences to Lord Tebbit and her family and friends.

 

[Biri]

HM The Queen has just lost another cousin

The Lady Mary Cecilia Colman, nee Bowes-Lyon died at her home on2 January, 2021 exactly four weeks before her 89th birthday; she was maternal first cousin of Her Majesty the Queen, and wife of Sir Timothy Colman, KG, sometime Lord Lieutenant of Norfolk.

Lady Mary served as an Extra Lady-in-Waiting to HRH Princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy, from 1970.

She was born on 30 January 1932 as the second of four children and elder daughter of Captain the Honourable Michael Claude Hamilton Bowes Lyon (1893-1953), of The Royal Scots, and his wife Elizabeth Margaret, nee Cator (1899-1959), scion of that landed gentry family.

A niece of Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, and a first cousin of HM The Queen, her father was the eighth child and fifth son of the Sir Claude George Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, KG, KT, GCVO (1855-1944) & his wife Nina Cecilia, nee Cavendish-Bentinck (1862-1938).

The Honourable Michael Bowes Lyon was reported to have watched from the gallery of the House of Commons as the Abdication Bill was passed, thus witnessing the moment his sister became Queen Consort in 1936.

Mary Bowes Lyon, a childhood playmate of her cousins the Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret, was advanced to the rank of an Earl's daughter, in 1974, following the succession in 1972 of her brother, Fergus, as 17th Earl of Strathmore & Kinghorne (1928-1987).

Mary Cecilia Bowes Lyon married on 10 November 1951 Timothy James Alan Colman (b. 19 September 1929) of Bixley Manor, Norwich, scion of the Norfolk mustard family, and descended maternally from the Adeane landed family.

Her husband was Lord Lieutenant of Norfolk, 1978-2004, and chairman of the Eastern Counties Newspaper Group. He was appointed a Knight of the Order of the Garter in 1996.

She is survived by Sir Timothy and by three daughters Sarah (b.1953), Sabrina (b.1955) & Emma (b.1958) two sons James (b.1962) & Matthew (b.1966) and as well as ten grandchildren and fourteen great-grandchildren. Her eldest daughter, Sarah Troughton, is Lord Lieutenant of Wiltshire.

Sources: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...1932-2021.html
Descendants of Sir Claude George Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth...trathmore.html

 

[AC21091968]

19th and 6th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne (Simon Bowes-Lyon) has pleaded guilty for sexually assaulting a woman at Glamis Castle.

Earl of Strathmore admits sex attack at Glamis Castle home
A Scottish earl has pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting a woman at his ancestral home in Angus.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-55641684

 

[Countessmeout]

19th and 6th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne (Simon Bowes-Lyon) has pleaded guilty for sexually assaulting a woman at Glamis Castle.

Earl of Strathmore admits sex attack at Glamis Castle home
A Scottish earl has pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting a woman at his ancestral home in Angus.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-55641684

Wow. Definitely shocking

Not a great chapter for Glamis castle, the queen mum's childhood home.

At least he is man enough to admit that being drunk is no excuse for his behavior. There are too many men who wouldn't be. Hopefully his victim can recover, and that his fancy title doesn't save him from answering properly for what he has done.

 

[An Ard Ri]

He's out on bail and has been placed on the sex offenders register the assault took place in early 2020.

 

[iceflower]

Viscountess Weymouth appeared at the 'Loose Women' TV show today, january 13:


** rex gallery **

 

[Tatiana Maria]

An article about the peerage nominations of last July:

In a sign the prime minister is trying to soothe Tory party divisions, ex-chancellors Philip Hammond and Ken Clarke – brutally stripped of the whip last year after rebelling over Brexit – are also nominated for peerages. They will be joined by the former Scottish Conservatives leader, Ruth Davidson, who is also on the nominations list.

The list of nominations published on Friday also include ex-prime minister May’s husband, Philip – once described by her as a “rock” throughout their marriage – who is being knighted for political service.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ian-botham-among-36-peerage-nominations-boris

It's interesting that in contrast to many other Western European countries, nominations to the nobility are still considered to be politically meaningful in the UK.

 

[JR76]

An article about the peerage nominations of last July:



https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ian-botham-among-36-peerage-nominations-boris

It's interesting that in contrast to many other Western European countries, nominations to the nobility are still considered to be politically meaningful in the UK.

The difference to other countries that still ennobles people is that in the UK becoming a life peer gives you the opportunity to have both political power and a not insignificant income.

 

[Somebody]

19th and 6th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne (Simon Bowes-Lyon) has pleaded guilty for sexually assaulting a woman at Glamis Castle.

Earl of Strathmore admits sex attack at Glamis Castle home
A Scottish earl has pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting a woman at his ancestral home in Angus.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-55641684

It's somewhat noteworthy that they just talk about 'a Scottish earl' without indicating 'The queen's cousin (twice removed)'. If Lord Downpatrick (whose family relationship to the queen is the same: in both cases their paternal grandfather is/was a first cousin of the queen) were involved there is no doubt that his link to the queen (or royal family) would be mentioned.

The difference to other countries that still ennobles people is that in the UK becoming a life peer gives you the opportunity to have both political power and a not insignificant income.

Do you refer to the possibility to become one of the chosen peers in the House of Lords? Or is there another way in which they receive income from being ennobled?

 

[Durham]

Do you refer to the possibility to become one of the chosen peers in the House of Lords? Or is there another way in which they receive income from being ennobled?

Expenses for peers are very generous (for not having to do very much, in fact for literally just having to turn up & show their face) & open to abuse:


https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how-do-house-of-lords-expenses-work/

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...t-of-control-expenses-as-bill-hits-23m-a-year

The difference to other countries that still ennobles people is that in the UK becoming a life peer gives you the opportunity to have both political power and a not insignificant income.

The House of Lords is one of those institutions that many people want reformed/abolished but can't decide what to put in its place. So it survives & goes on......& on.....

The only good thing about the Lords is that it does contain some incredibly accomplished life peers who can speak with real authority on their area of expertise. Unlike some members of the Commons......

 

[Somebody]

Expenses for peers are very generous (for not having to do very much) & open to abuse:


https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how-do-house-of-lords-expenses-work/

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...t-of-control-expenses-as-bill-hits-23m-a-year

So, under the current rules; are all life peers automatically members of the House of Lords? My impression was that only a selection of them was but it seems that only applies to the hereditary peers and not to the life peers. So, if I understand you correctly all life peers do receive benefits because every single one is seated in the House of Lords?!

And what if they no longer wish to sit in the House of Lords; do they loose these financial benefits?

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Lady Mary Cecilia Colman, nee Bowes-Lyon died at her home on2 January, 2021 exactly four weeks before her 89th birthday; she was maternal first cousin of Her Majesty the Queen, and wife of Sir Timothy Colman, KG, sometime Lord Lieutenant of Norfolk.

Lady Mary served as an Extra Lady-in-Waiting to HRH Princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy, from 1970.

She was born on 30 January 1932 as the second of four children and elder daughter of Captain the Honourable Michael Claude Hamilton Bowes Lyon (1893-1953), of The Royal Scots, and his wife Elizabeth Margaret, nee Cator (1899-1959), scion of that landed gentry family.

A niece of Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, and a first cousin of HM The Queen, her father was the eighth child and fifth son of the Sir Claude George Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, KG, KT, GCVO (1855-1944) & his wife Nina Cecilia, nee Cavendish-Bentinck (1862-1938).

The Honourable Michael Bowes Lyon was reported to have watched from the gallery of the House of Commons as the Abdication Bill was passed, thus witnessing the moment his sister became Queen Consort in 1936.

Mary Bowes Lyon, a childhood playmate of her cousins the Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret, was advanced to the rank of an Earl's daughter, in 1974, following the succession in 1972 of her brother, Fergus, as 17th Earl of Strathmore & Kinghorne (1928-1987).

Mary Cecilia Bowes Lyon married on 10 November 1951 Timothy James Alan Colman (b. 19 September 1929) of Bixley Manor, Norwich, scion of the Norfolk mustard family, and descended maternally from the Adeane landed family.

Her husband was Lord Lieutenant of Norfolk, 1978-2004, and chairman of the Eastern Counties Newspaper Group. He was appointed a Knight of the Order of the Garter in 1996.

She is survived by Sir Timothy and by three daughters Sarah (b.1953), Sabrina (b.1955) & Emma (b.1958) two sons James (b.1962) & Matthew (b.1966) and as well as ten grandchildren and fourteen great-grandchildren. Her eldest daughter, Sarah Troughton, is Lord Lieutenant of Wiltshire.

Sources: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...1932-2021.html
Descendants of Sir Claude George Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth...trathmore.html

How sad that another cousin of Queen Elizabeth II has passed away.

 

[Durham]

So, under the current rules; are all life peers automatically members of the House of Lords? My impression was that only a selection of them was but it seems that only applies to the hereditary peers and not to the life peers. So, if I understand you correctly all life peers do receive benefits because every single one is seated in the House of Lords?!

And what if they no longer wish to sit in the House of Lords; do they loose these financial benefits?

Yes all life peers are eligible to attend the Lords. The hereditary peers only have their representatives as you say.

They can only claim allowances if they attend in person. They only have to register that they've turned up in order to claim their money & they are then free to stay or go.

How sad that another cousin of Queen Elizabeth II has passed away.

It must be sad when your generation starts to pass in increasing numbers. HM must have had many maternal cousins. There were a lot of Bowes-Lyons!

 

[An Ard Ri]

It must be sad when your generation starts to pass in increasing numbers. HM must have had many maternal cousins. There were a lot of Bowes-Lyons!

I was thinking the same about the numerous Bowes-Lyons cousins.

 

[AC21091968]

Expenses for peers are very generous (for not having to do very much, in fact for literally just having to turn up & show their face) & open to abuse:


https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how-do-house-of-lords-expenses-work/

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...t-of-control-expenses-as-bill-hits-23m-a-year

I know that the topic on the future of House of Lords has been discussed to death.

The people who wants to abolish House of Lords come from both side of the political spectrum, not just on the socialist side.

The expenses for peers certainly gave them the ammunition to abolish the House of Lords.

The Brexit turmoil and recent "ping-pong" or "table tennis" (Commons pass through a Bill, Lords amending the Bill, Commons rejecting the Lord's amendment and sends the Bill back to Lords...) between the two Houses repeatedly brings up the argument that the House of Lords' scrutiny is undemocratic. They argue that the peers in the House of Lords are not elected by the people (in elections) like MPs in House of Commons and yet "given a lot of privileges". Don't get me wrong, these activists hates MPs as well, but because they are elected in general elections, they get less criticism compared to Peers in the House of Lords.

The Prime Minister recently has send Leavers to the House of Lords, so that more Brexit Bills could pass through the Lords or even just satisfy Brexiteer/Leavers who wants to abolish House of Lords.

Here is the link to the PARLY twitter account showing the "Ping-pong" on the U.K. internal market bill.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1337035848047595521

 

[Durham]

That's very funny

ps - I love the Australian House of Representatives. When they have an
argument they really go for it.?

 

[Roslyn]

Viscountess Weymouth appeared at the 'Loose Women' TV show today, january 13:


** rex gallery **

The pedant in me is compelled to point out that Emma ceased being Viscountess Weymouth on 4 April 2020. Since then she has been The Marchioness of Bath. This fact seems to have bypassed Monica Greep of the Daily Mail who wrote an article about Emma's appearance on 'Loose Women'. I hope 'Loose Women' got it right.

 

[Somebody]

I know that the topic on the future of House of Lords has been discussed to death.

The people who wants to abolish House of Lords come from both side of the political spectrum, not just on the socialist side.

The expenses for peers certainly gave them the ammunition to abolish the House of Lords.

The Brexit turmoil and recent "ping-pong" or "table tennis" (Commons pass through a Bill, Lords amending the Bill, Commons rejecting the Lord's amendment and sends the Bill back to Lords...) between the two Houses repeatedly brings up the argument that the House of Lords' scrutiny is undemocratic. They argue that the peers in the House of Lords are not elected by the people (in elections) like MPs in House of Commons and yet "given a lot of privileges". Don't get me wrong, these activists hates MPs as well, but because they are elected in general elections, they get less criticism compared to Peers in the House of Lords.

The Prime Minister recently has send Leavers to the House of Lords, so that more Brexit Bills could pass through the Lords or even just satisfy Brexiteer/Leavers who wants to abolish House of Lords.

Here is the link to the PARLY twitter account showing the "Ping-pong" on the U.K. internal market bill.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1337035848047595521

In the Netherlands, the 'First Chamber' cannot amend any laws, they can either accept (most of the time) or reject (rarely; but at times when they consider it critical they do (but unlike the Lords they are chosen representatives although not directly); at other times they might for example clarify certain aspects when a law isn't fully clear, so the 'acts of parliament' might be used for interpretation). So, they are considered the 'Chamber of Reflection'.

 

[Biri]

It must be sad when your generation starts to pass in increasing numbers. HM must have had many maternal cousins. There were a lot of Bowes-Lyons!

Only two od them are still alive:
Honourable Michael Albemarle Bowes-Lyon (b.1940)[youngest child of Honourable Michael Claude Hamilton Bowes-Lyon (1893-1953)] & Simon Alexander Bowes-Lyon (b.1932)[son of Honourable Sir David Bowes-Lyon (1902-1961)]:

Descendants of Sir Claude George Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne

 

[Biri]

The Duke of Roxburghe is getting married again!

The engagement was announced between Charles Robert George Innes-Ker, the 11th Duke of Roxburghe (b. 18 February 1981), of Floors Castle, Kelso [elder son of late Guy Innes-Ker, the 10th Duke of Roxburghe (1954-2019) & his first wife Lady Jane Meriel Grosvenor (b.1953)] & Miss Annabel Green [daughter of the late Mr Ian Green and Mrs Patrick Quirk] on 30 January.

Annabel Green will become chatelaine of the magnificent Floors Castle, the largest inhabited castle in Scotland and family home of the Dukes of Roxburghe. The castle was built for the 1st Duke of Roxburghe in 1721.

One of Britain's most eligible bachelors, the duke is a close Army friend of the Duke of Sussex. He inherited his father's title and £100m estate in 2019. The duke, when still Marquis of Bowmont, was also once fined for riding the Tyne and Wear Metro without a £1 ticket, but chose to pay the £10 fine rather than end up on 'loser posters' put up around the city.

Charles Roxburghe attended Eton College before following in his father's footsteps by going to Sandhurst after which he served during the Iraq War. Rather than sitting around 'like a hawk' however, Charles runs his own chauffeur business, Capstar, which retrains wounded former servicemen and women, according to the Evening Standard.

It will be the second marriage for the Duke of Roxburghe. He married firstly, on 22 July 2011 Honourable Charlotte Susanna Aitken (b. 15 February 1982) [daughter of Maxwell Aitken, the 3rd Baron Beaverbrook (b.1951) & his wife, Susan Angela More O'Ferrall]. This childless marriage ended in divorce in 2013, and Charlotte is now Mrs Francesco Bellasi and has a son by her current husband.

In 2015 he had a daughter with fashion designer Morvarid Sahafi.

The Duke of Roxburghe succeeded to the title on his father's death on 29 August 2019. The 10th duke died from cancer aged 64. The Duke is also Marquess of Bowmont and Cessford, Earl of Roxburghe, Earl of Kelso, Earl Innes, Viscount Broxmouth, Lord Roxburghe, Lord Ker of Cessford and Cavertoun, Lord Ker of Cessford and Overton, and is the premier Baronet of Nova Scotia, and Chief of the Clan Innes.

Charles Roxburghe's mother, Lady Jane, is a daughter of Lieutenant-Colonel Robert George Grosvenor, the 5th Duke of Westminster (1910-1979) & his wife, Honourable Viole Lyttelton (1912-1987), and is now the wife of Edward William Dawnay (b.1950), scion of the Viscounts Downe.

The Duke of Roxburghe has a brother, and current heir presumptive, Lord Edward Innes-Ker (b.2 February 1984), who is married to Celia Brook since 2017, and a sister Rosanagh (b. 16 January 1979), who was a bridesmaid at the wedding of HRH The Duke of York and Miss Sarah Ferguson in 1986 (it was at a Floors Castle house party where Prince Andrew is said to have proposed to Sarah). Rosanagh is Viscountess Grimston, wife of James Walter Grimston, Viscount Grimston (b.6 January 1978) [eldest son and Heir of John Grimston,7th Earl of Verulam (b.1951) & his wife Dione, nee Smith (b.1954) they have two sons: John Innes Archie (b.10 August 2010) & Guy Robert (b.21 December 2011) and a daughter Violet Mary (8 October 2014).

The duke also has two half-siblings, Lady Isabella Innes-Ker (b.7 September 1994), and Lord George Innes-Ker (b.20 November 1996), from his father's second marriage to Virginia Wynn-Williams.

Sources: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...e-engaged.html
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth...roxburghe.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_In...#Personal_life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwel...on_Beaverbrook
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charle...#Personal_life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_...of_Westminster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert...of_Westminster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G...#Personal_life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dione_...ess_of_Verulam

 

[An Ard Ri]

His 1st marriage last less than a year after the wedding.

 

[Heavs]

His 1st marriage last less than a year after the wedding.

True, but IIRC they had been together several years before getting married. They were among the spate of short lived marriages among young aristocrats at the time, where it seemed the wedding festivities lasted longer than the honeymoon period.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I'd also forgotten that his maternal uncle was the late Duke of Westminster.

 

[Somebody]

So, a previous short-lived marriage and a daughter out of wedlock. He's bringing in some baggage into the marriage. Hopefully this marriage is one that will last.

 

[Osipi]

So much for "marry in haste, repent at leisure" eh? What gets me is that some couples now, in their wedding vows choose to say "as long as we both shall choose". Times they are a changin'.

 

[Somebody]

So much for "marry in haste, repent at leisure" eh? What gets me is that some couples now, in their wedding vows choose to say "as long as we both shall choose". Times they are a changin'.

Are they literally saying that or is that implied by their actions?

 

[Osipi]

Are they literally saying that or is that implied by their actions?

I've heard of couples actually choosing to use the words. Guess they don't believe in the "until death do us part" wording.