The British Nobility thread 1: Ending 2022


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
R.I.P Your Grace.

Of course daily mail needs to concentrate on an so-called celebrity instead of the actual man that has just passed, sigh.


His Grace, The Duke
 
The dukes of Marlborough and now Wellesley, along with the dowager Duchess of Devonshire....2014 has seen death in some of the grandest families in the British aristocracy.:sad:

I was just thinking the same thing – and we have also lost Queen Fabiola over in Belgium and the Duchess of Alba over in Spain. It seems that 2014 has unfortunately been the year of deaths (aside from royalty we have also lost some famous faces, and personally I have lost two family members), so I hope 2015 will be the year of happy events – weddings, births, engagements etc.

The saddest thing about the Duke of Wellington's death for me is that he was one year of one hundred, which is a huge milestone, and also one day off 2015 (in England it's still New Year's Eve, right now we have three hours until January 1). :sad:

I find it interesting that the new Duchess of Wellington still has "Princess" in her title, though I read that titles from defunct monarchies are still recognised in countries that still have their monarchy.

I didn't realise that Prince Philip is the oldest Duke in the UK now. Do we know who is the oldest Duke in UK is after Prince Philip?
 
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The Duke of Beaufort is 86 and the Duke of Richmond is 85 so they are near the top after Philip.


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I find it interesting that the new Duchess of Marlborough still has "Princess" in her title, though I read that titles from defunct monarchies are still recognised in countries that still have their monarchy.


The new Duchess of Marlborough is Edla Griffiths, a Welsh born ceramicist. She is the current wife of the current Duke.
 
Although the day to day style of a non-royal duke and duchess is 'Grace', they are formally styled as 'Most High, Potent and Noble Prince'
 
I was just thinking the same thing – and we have also lost Queen Fabiola over in Belgium and the Duchess of Alba over in Spain. It seems that 2014 has unfortunately been the year of deaths (aside from royalty we have also lost some famous faces, and personally I have lost two family members), so I hope 2015 will be the year of happy events – weddings, births, engagements etc.

The saddest thing about the Duke of Wellington's death for me is that he was one year of one hundred, which is a huge milestone, and also one day off 2015 (in England it's still New Year's Eve, right now we have three hours until January 1). :sad:

I find it interesting that the new Duchess of Marlborough still has "Princess" in her title, though I read that titles from defunct monarchies are still recognised in countries that still have their monarchy.

I didn't realise that Prince Philip is the oldest Duke in the UK now. Do we know who is the oldest Duke in UK is after Prince Philip?


Yes, when one factors in the duchess of Alba and Queen Fabiola in the aristo-royal world with the celebrity losses of Robin Williams, Joan Rivers, and Lauren Bacall...and ending with the horrible aviation disasters I can't say I am sorry to be seeing the end of 2014.:ermm:

And I am very sorry to read that you also lost not one but two family members this year, Hereditary Princess:sad:.
 
Yes, when one factors in the duchess of Alba and Queen Fabiola in the aristo-royal world with the celebrity losses of Robin Williams, Joan Rivers, and Lauren Bacall...and ending with the horrible aviation disasters I can't say I am sorry to be seeing the end of 2014.:ermm:

I too am glad to have left 2014. It was a pretty awful year, and I hope 2015 will be better.

And I am very sorry to read that you also lost not one but two family members this year, Hereditary Princess:sad:

Thank you for your kind words. Christmas was strange this year because we had empty seats. Both their deaths came as a surprise to me. My great-uncle, who died in February, was always quite healthy but a week before his death he was admitted to hospital. My great-aunt (they were not married but he was her brother-in-law) had lung cancer and she was struggling by the end. :sad:

The new Duchess of Marlborough is Edla Griffiths, a Welsh born ceramicist. She is the current wife of the current Duke.

Yes, I know - I had made a mistake. I was talking about the Duchess of Wellington, but was thinking about the Duchess of Marlborough as he had been mentioned in a previous post. I will amend my post to avoid confusion.

The Duke of Beaufort is 86 and the Duke of Richmond is 85 so they are near the top after Philip.


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Thank you for the information. :flowers:
 
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No - there are actually 3 vacancies now and it is up to The Queen to fill them when she comes up with suitable candidates remembering that royals don't count in the 24. Maybe Blair will get one of those vacancies (Gordon Brown, I suspect, would prefer the Thistle being a Scotsman). It is normal for most part PM's to get one or other of these orders so, unless they have been offered and refused it, I would expect one or both of these past PM's to be honoured in that way at some time.


The new Duke is also a candidate, as most, if not all the previous dukes have had the Garter so it is possible that The Queen will pass it on to the new Duke - maybe this year, maybe next (would be nice this year so he had it for the 200th anniversary of Waterloo but maybe that would be too soon for him).
 


It would be nice if the Garter was given to Charles, the 9th Duke for it would add historic significance to the 200th anniversary of Waterloo.


I'm not familiar with the new Dukes work. What would be the basis for awarding him the garter?


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The Queen wants to give it to him - that is the only criteria necessary. The Garter is the personal gift of the monarch and there is no need for a person to have done anything at all.
 
Andrew Parker Bowles & Prince El Hassan bin Talal of Jordan attended the funeral at Stratfield Saye church today.
 
The Earl of Lindsey and Abingdon is a title of the Bertie family.
How did Abingdon become part of the title?

Through a not direct way. The title "Earl of Abingdon" was first created for the 2nd Earl of Lindsey's youngest son (from his second marriage). The Earl of Lindsey title passed on to the eldest son from the first marriage, with the 4th Earl also becoming the 1st Duke of Ancaster and Kevesteven. The Dukedom became extinct with the death of the 5th Duke and the Earldom passed on to a line of one of the second Earls' sons (passing on to the 9th Earl). When that line died out (with the death of the 9th Earl's grandson, the 12th Earl), it passed on to the line of the 2nd Earl's youngest son, the Earl of Abingdon (making the 8th Earl of Abingdon the 13th Earl of Lindsey). The 9th to 12th Earls were also Viscount Cullens through special remainder (although they never claimed the title), and it went extinct on the 12th Earl's death.

As the Earl of Abingdon descends through the 2nd Earl of Lindsey's youngest son and the 1st Earl of Lindsey only had one son if this line dies out then both titles will become extinct.
 
February 4, 2015:

GBR: Service Of Thanksgiving For The Life Of The 11th Duke Of Marlborough, John Spencer-Churchil
Getty Images gallery

The Duchess of Cornwall, the Duke of Kent, Prince Michael of Kent, the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, Viscount Linley and Tom Parker-Bowles were all present. The service took place at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks.
 
Nice to see so many members of the family attend the service. The new Duke, Jamie, always looks so unkempt but I know he has had quite a colourful history. His two youngest children are very cute.
 
https://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/2764083.html

The above link contains photos from the commemoration service of The 11th Duke Of Marlborough.
The 12th Duke of Marlborough looks alcohol-worn. Tom Parker Bowels does not look much better than the new Duke.
It is nice to see Duke of Kent and Prince Michael attending the service.
 
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An article from January 7th. Apparenttly the Hon. Diana Guinness is angry at the biographer of her grandmother Diana Mosley nee Mitford.

Daphne Guinness brands author of Diana Mitford biography a 'charlatan' on Twitter | Daily Mail Online

She tweeted:

My grandmother committed no crime, she fell in LOVE. And she was in prison for 4 years... aged 23... revising history is easy for CHARLATANS.

and to the author of the biography:

'I am a Mitford and I detest you

the article doesn't mention WHY Ms. Guinness is angry though. It can't be that people are writing books about the Mitfords, as her aunt-by-marriage, Charlotte Mosley, is doing that.

As she is talking about revising history, it is indeed easy for charlatans. But revising history is even easier for family members. Although Diana Mosley was intelligent, charming, witty and elegant, fact remains that she her political views were awful and she continued to share these even after the war.
 
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To be fair though, I guess a lot of people were Nazi supporters back then. But you are right that it is never explained why Ms Guiness is angry.
 
They were, esp. among the aristocracy. Diana Mosley was married to the fascist leader of the time and cultivated a personal friendship with Hitler and henchmen. She stands out in that respect. And also because even after the war she didn't change her tune much. In a way you can admire her honesty and strong will perhaps.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzkbouKG830

 
In the British nobility, an Earl may have two secondary titles: Viscount _ and Other title.
Here is the scenario:
The Earl's heir is Viscount _. The Viscount's son has the last of the paternal grandfather's secondary titles, the Other title.
What title does his son get if this great-grandson is born when Great-Grandfather is still the Earl?
 
The five levels of the nobility are in descending order:


Duke, Marquis, Earl, Viscount and Baron.


The heir apparent takes the next title as a courtesy title e.g. many Earls have a Viscount title as well so the heir is Viscount.


The heir's heir apparent would be Baron.


That Baron's heir apparent would be 'Honourable'.


And if another generation was born - nothing - until he/she moved up the line.


Daughters are ladies down the line until the also are honourable's when their fathers are on the bottom of the title's list e.g. Diana, while the daughter of Viscount Althorp - was the Honourable Diana Spence because the Earl Spencer only has one other title (Viscount Althorp) but when her father became Earl Spencer and her brother became Viscount Althorp she became Lady Diana Spencer.


However, it must be remembered that the substantive holder of the title is still the Earl and the other titles are a 'courtesy' title only.
 
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The neighbour of three aristocratic daughters claims that being next to their London home is like 'living next door to a nightclub'.
Jackie Elliot, who works in marketing and communications lives next door to Lady Violet Manners, 21, and her sisters Lady Alice, 19, and Lady Eliza, 17, in their £2.6 million house on Bovingdon Road, Fulham.
However, despite their aristocratic upbringing Lady Violet has been branded 'Violet no-manners' after she uploaded a letter of complaint to the internet.

Duke of Rutland's daughters' neighbours complain it's like 'living next to a nightclub'  | Daily Mail Online

I see nothing wrong with Tom nor the Duke.

Could you explain what you find objectionable?

Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall among dignitaries attending memorial for 11th Duke of Marlborough | Daily Mail Online

I'm not sure, but I think the reason may be because the new Duke of Marlborough used to have road rage and in 2007 was imprisoned for six months. He also appeared in a TV programme where famous people were asked to experience three nights as a homeless person, which he refused to do.
 
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