The British Nobility thread 1: Ending 2022


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
BeatrixFan said "A Duke or a Duchess is "Your Grace",..."

Would a Duke not of royalty be called Your Grace?

(Baby here in the ways of English aristocracy)
 
Do you mean a Duke who was not born into the royal family?
Such as the Dukes of Norfolk or Westminster?

The answer is yes, all Dukes are referred to as Your Grace.
 
In the British system -

Royals are Your Majesty for Kings and Queens (with Ma'am and Sir after the first time - so greet with 'Good morning Your Majesty and thereafter 'Sounds like a good idea Ma'am"),
Princes and Princesses, including royal dukes, are Your Royal Highness to begin and then Sir or Ma'am.
Non royal Dukes, Duchesses, Archbishops and Bishops are Your Grace at first and then depending on acquaintance Sir or Ma'am or continue with Your Grace.
Oher titles, Marquisates, Marchionesses, Earls, Countesses (again exempting royals), Viscounts, Barons and Baronesses are My Lord and My Lady, Baronets are Sir and their wives are Lady.

So The Duke of Gloucester would be Your Royal Highness but when his son inherits the title the son will only ever be Your Grace as the present Duke is a royal duke but his son won't be royal (same with the Duke of Kent).
 
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I have another question -- what is the difference between nobility and aristocracy?
 
Nobility is a state-privileged status which is generally hereditary.

The aristocracy are people considered to be in the highest social class in a society which once had a political system of Aristocracy. Aristocrats possess hereditary titles granted by a monarch, which once granted them feudal or legal privileges,
 
I still don't understand the difference between them though.
 
I think a noble title is given by the government, like Lord Alan Sugar. Whereas aristocracy is given by the monarch, such as The Duke of Norfolk etc.
 
Nobility is a state-privileged status which is generally hereditary.

The aristocracy are people considered to be in the highest social class in a society which once had a political system of Aristocracy. Aristocrats possess hereditary titles granted by a monarch, which once granted them feudal or legal privileges,

Thank you, Lumutqueen. So if I understand you correctly, a noble might not have a title, but aristocrats are titled? Or perhaps aristocrats are the highest social class amongst the noble class?
 
Thank you, Lumutqueen. So if I understand you correctly, a noble might not have a title, but aristocrats are titled? Or perhaps aristocrats are the highest social class amongst the noble class?

Actually, its the other way around.

The aristocracy is only a social class. An aristocrat can be someone who lacks a title, such as the siblings of peers, or wealthy members of the landed gentry. They do not necessarily hold titles, i.e. British baronets, who are not titled but who are hereditary knights. They can be considered members of the aristocracy, but not members of the nobility.

The nobility is recognized by law and by the state. Nobility in its most general and strict sense is an acknowledged preeminence that is hereditary, i.e. all legitimate, male-line descendants of noblemen are noble. This usually means the male-line descendants who hold the noble title, i.e. dukes, marquesses, earls, viscounts and barons.

So, technically speaking, the nobility no longer exists in countries like Germany and France, since neither country recognizes the use of titles (though titles are still unofficially used in both).

Those former nobles, however, can still be members of the aristocracy.. it all depends on the social circles they move in.

Hope this helps you understand it better. :)
 
...The aristocracy is only a social class...The nobility is recognized by law and by the state.
Yes, that does help, thank you. It sounds like the aristocracy is a little like the "blue-blooded" upper class in the States (considered to be those who come from inherited wealth, and who often are involved in charitable work), and of course we do not have the nobility, since titles have not been recognized here since the country was founded.
 
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The current British aristocracy & the main events

I wish to start new topic regarding only the matters of present day British aristocratic families.
As I've found on Wikipedia nowadays the main aristocratic families are:the Dukes of:Westminster,Northumberland,Devonshire,Malborough,Dorset,Richmond-Gordon,Norfolk,Hamilton,Brandon,Stewart,Wellington,Somerset,Bedford,Suffolk,Montrose,Rutland,Argyll,Leinster,Dartmuth-Rein.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.The people rarely know their current news.I wish to know more about theit titles,family(with pics) and events.
Are many of them still the richest people or landlords?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218628/Ten-dukes-dining-Gathered-lunch-unique-picture-grandees-2bn-340-ooo-acres-them.html
 
The Duke of Westminster was a title created for the 3rd Marquess of Westminster in 1874, and is held by the Grosvenor family. The current duke is the richest man in Great Britain, with an estimated wealth of around 6.75 Billion (BPS). He is also one of the country's largest landowners, with estates in England, Scotland, Canada and Spain.. and he owns several properties in London as well. He is married with four children.

The Duke of Northumberland was a title created most recently in 1766, and is held by the Percy family. The current duke has an estimated wealth of 300 Million (BPS). He is married with four children.

The Duke of Devonshire was a title created in 1694 for the Earls of Devonshire, and has always been held by the Cavendish family. The entire family is one of the richest and most aristocratic families in Britain. The current duke is well known in the world of horse racing and he is trustee of several museums - is the Chairman of Devonshire Hotel Group and a Deputy Chairman of Sotheby's auction house. He is married with three children.

The Duke of Marlborough was a title created in 1702, and was originally held by the Churchill family. Today it is held by the Spencer-Churchills, a branch of the original holders. The current duke has an estimated wealth of 185 Million (BPS), and is a distant relative of the late Diana, Princess of Wales. He has been married four times and has three children with his first wife, and three children with his third wife. His second wife was Athina Livanos Onassis, the former wife of Aristotle Onassis the Greek shipping magnate (who married Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy).

The Duke of Dorset was a title created in 1720 for the 7th Earl of Dorset. This title has been extinct since 1845.

The Duke of Richmond was a title most recently created in 1675. Along with that creation was also created the title Duke of Lennox in the same year. Both titles are invested in a single heir of the Lennox family. The title Duke of Gordon was added 1818, so there are three ducal titles in all, as well as the title Duc d'Aubigny in France. The current duke has been a church commissioner, Chancellor of the University of Sussex and Lord Lieutenant of West Sussex. He has a son and heir, and an adopted daughter who is an actress.

The Duke of Norfolk is the premier duke in England and is also Hereditary Earl Marshal. Almost all of the Dukes of Norfolk have been Roman Catholic, and all are descended from King Edward I. The original holders were the Howard family, and is now held by the Fitzalan-Howards, a branch of the original family. The current duke is responsible for all State Occasions and for the State Opening of Parliament. He is married with five children.

The Duke of Stewart does not exist.

The Duke of Suffolk was a title created three times in England. The last duke was executed in 1554, and his titles were forfeit under attainder for treason. He had no male heirs, however, and the title would have become extinct on his death.

The Duke of Dartmuth-Rein does not exist.

And the rest will have to wait.. my fingers are tired ;)
 
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Here we go, again!!!


How ridiculous can you be. Hell, if it's that simple to challenge an inheritance to a title and such, anyone related to the Percy's (or anyone else for that matter) ought to put in a claim:blink::nonono:

However as far as I'm concerned he might as well go :deadhorse:

He has about as much chance of getting it as I do, and I'm a descendant of Harry Hotspur as well.....................none.
 
The House of Lords today

I wonder if the House of Lords has the many rights it used to have in the past.As I understand Britain has a bicameral government and in recent years The House of Lords has been given more legitimacy in the fact that hereditary peers are reduced in number ,and the majority are appointed by Parliament.
 
100 years ago the House of Lords lost a lot of its power in the 1911 Parliament Act which restricted its power not to pass legislation. The Lords could delay legislation for a time and recommend changes but couldn't block it. From 1911 the Lords could delay legislation iriginating in the House of Commons for two years.

In 1949 that Act was amended to restrict the delay to one year.

The 1999 reforms changed who was eligible to sit in the Lords but the real gutting of the power came in 1911.

Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since 1911 The House of Lords has really been not much more than a rubber stamp to the House of Commons - like the monarch - no teeth.
 
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This is so sad for the Carey family as well as other families and friends. Addiction is a horrible, horrible thing and there needs to be more invested in rehabilitation everywhere.
 
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A friend of Prince William and Kate Middleton will be carried to her fairytale wedding in a horse drawn antique carriage in Northumberland.

Lady Katie Percy, the eldest daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Northumberland, is to marry City financier Patrick Valentine, 30, in Alnwick this saturday.
 
The bride is very attractive, but why, oh why, didn't someone straighten her tiara. :eek: The tiara is too beautiful to be worn willy nilly.
 
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